Google Facing Tens of Millions of Dollars in Fines over Safari Privacy Circumvention

[Glideslope]

Nice.

And here I thought my day would end on a low note.

$50,000,000 baby. Time for a Diet Eric!!!

 

[reedmartin]

The difference is that by using iTunes I agree to let Apple collect my data.

By using google I am not giving them permission to bypass cookie settings and track me.

Ding ding ding....i mean it's not rocket science, right?

 

[samcraig]

actually its two different points.

Again if a user wishes to jailbreak they may do so, its their device. In doing so they choose to open their device to such exploits.

Google intentionally and actively exploited the device against the user's will.

Its not as simple as all hacking is the same.

Google violated user privacy settings.

Obviously if they did no wrong they wouldn't be slapped with fines.

You're thinking end user. I'm not.

Google exploits iOS via Safari
The developer of (fill in the blank) jailbreak software exploits iOS and provides that exploit to the public

Both entities are exploiting Apple's vulnerabilities. Whether or not the end user chooses or not wasn't part of my equation.

 

[kurosov]

Both entities are exploiting Apple's vulnerabilities. Whether or not the end user chooses or not wasn't part of my equation.

And that is why your 'math' is wrong.

The problem isn't with the security being bypassed in general it's that it is done without your consent. If you choose to jailbreak your device then there is no harm, if somebody bypasses security without your consent to collect information on you that you do not want to be given then there is a problem.

 

[Taz Mangus]

Unfortunately there is no free lunch and all the Google products are just that. You are trading your privacy for services that Google is providing. Honestly, I always try to steer clear from Google services since that company is shady as hell. If one needs to repeat a slogan like "Do no evil" then you probably have Skynet already up and running. Burn in hell Google and give them a billion dollar fine and maybe then they think twice about tracking consumers.

This is why I will never own a phone that has the Android OS. I even go as far to avoid using Google search in Safari. The "Do no evil" slogan really amounts to saying "do what I say not what I do".

 

[JohnDoe98]

Missed the point which was that both are exploiting Apple's iOS. If bypassing Safari via an exploit is illegal then bypassing other iOS elements can be deemed as well. Doesn't matter if it's intentional or not. Abusing an exploit is abusing an exploit.

Sorry that's not the way copy protection laws work. In fact, you can jailbrake because of the safe harbor clause in the DMCA. That's not what google is doing though, they aren't trying to achieve interoperability.

 

[5aga]

You're thinking end user. I'm not.

Google exploits iOS via Safari
The developer of (fill in the blank) jailbreak software exploits iOS and provides that exploit to the public

Both entities are exploiting Apple's vulnerabilities. Whether or not the end user chooses or not wasn't part of my equation.

but the difference obviously matters.

according to your equation its ok for a company to hack personal devices because individuals jailbreak.

Individuals may do this to their own devices but a company cannot, especially for profit.

go compile a jailbreak program and sell it for profit and see how long it takes for Apple and legal authorities jump.

Like I said earlier its not as simple as all hacking is the same. Companies have legal and moral obligations to repect privacy settings and proprietary code.

 

[JohnDoe98]

Didn't think of Yahoo thanks. I use imap though and would use Hotmail if it supported it fully without having to resort to other apps.

What makes you think no tracking is happening there either? Probably your safest email is your ISP, but even there...

----------

Honestly, i believe Google when they say they keep your data safe. That's not the issue to me...The issue is the people affected here did not want their data being collected, and Google did so anyway without asking them and without letting them know. That's wrong.

Totally agree.

 

[paul4339]

No direct examples but in case where the landlord would be negligence and then be liable would be if some one is rob and the landlord failed to replace the locks as tenets move out. Or the locks did not work as they should. Windows did not have locks and so on. Outside lights fail to work (not burnt out but do not work at all) would be another area they could get busted for. Not having working blinds is again something else they could get in trouble for since the tennets could not light up the area around the house or close blinds to prevent people from seeing in.

While the person who robbed the house yes should be busted for it the landlord at the same time failed to meet his/her legal requirement and proved inadequate security.

Apple security on it was that of having only the door knob lock working. the dead bolt did not work.

I think the difference is one is criminal and one is civil.

Breaking into someone's home though a loophole is still a crime. (by analog, the feds should fine Google)

To put poor security (non-intentionally) is civil... you can sue your landlord if you felt you were wronged. But the landlord in this case did not commit any crime. (so by the same analogy, an Apple user who felt they were wronged can attempt to sue Apple).

P.

 

[kurosov]

What makes you think no tracking is happening there either? Probably your safest email is your ISP, but even there...

Actually the safest email is a self hosted email server if you are worried about information collection.

Many people opt for private domain emails. For business purposes i do.

 

[Pyrrhic Victory]

What is wrong is that the fine goes to the government instead of all of us who use Safari whose privacy was negotiated around. It's impractical, sure, but the damage was done to us not the government.

You realize that "we" are the government, right? The United States is not a democracy, not a dictatorship. That money will ultimately go towards helping Americans.

 

[JohnDoe98]

but the difference obviously matters.

according to your equation its ok for a company to hack personal devices because individuals jailbreak.

Individuals may do this to their own devices but a company cannot, especially for profit.

go compile a jailbreak program and sell it for profit and see how long it takes for Apple and legal authorities jump.

Like I said earlier its not as simple as all hacking is the same. Companies have legal and moral obligations to repect privacy settings and proprietary code.

Again that's not an issue. Firecore is doing just that, breaking into iOS and selling software, yet no legal teams hunt them down. Why? This:

Reverse engineering of existing systems is expressly permitted under the Act under specific conditions. Under the reverse engineering safe harbor, circumvention necessary to achieve interoperability with other software is specifically authorized. See 17 U.S.C. Sec. 1201(f). Open-source software to decrypt content scrambled with the Content Scrambling System and other encryption techniques presents an intractable problem with the application of the Act. Much depends on the intent of the actor. If the decryption is done for the purpose of achieving interoperability of open source operating systems with proprietary operating systems, the circumvention would be protected by Section 1201(f) the Act. Cf., Universal City Studios, Inc. v. Corley, 273 F.3d 429 (2d Cir. 2001) at notes 5 and 16. However, dissemination of such software for the purpose of violating or encouraging others to violate copyrights has been held illegal. See Universal City Studios, Inc. v. Reimerdes, 111 F. Supp. 2d 346 (S.D.N.Y. 2000).

 

[kdarling]

Is this a justification for doing something without your consent? Or better yet AGAINST your consent and unbeknownst to you?

I was only responding to the idea that we should worry about companies "selling info", since that's not how it works. On the contrary, both Apple and Google protect that info from getting out, since their possession of it is exactly what they charge for.

 

[apolloa]

What makes you think no tracking is happening there either? Probably your safest email is your ISP, but even there...

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Totally agree.

My ISP just uses rebranded Googlemail, I suppose the best thing to do is use different browsers which on MacBooks isn't an option due to them forcing the discrete card to be used, and then again one of the options is Chrome anyway......

 

[gnasher729]

It more Apple put sub standard locks on the door.

While it was Google's fault for going around them. It does not change the fact in terms of security Apple lags pretty far behind and is in the sub standard catigory.

This is total rubbish. Google did the same thing to users of Microsoft's Internet Explorer using a different technique.

The way to keep a multi-billion dollar company from snooping on your customers is not by making your products so secure that a multi-billion dollar company can't find a way in. That's impossible. The way to stop them is to take legal measures that cost them more money than it is worth.

 

[caligomez]

I guess that Google's corporate mantra of "Don't be evil", directly conflicts with the fact that it is a public company. The second it went public, it answered to stockholders, who in turn only care about money.

Therefore...

Public Company----> Greed----> Evil

Oh, and if you think Google can violate privacy, just wait until Facebook has been a public company for a couple of years..

 

[sunspot42]

What's Google's Product?

Remember folks, Apple's product is gadgets.

Google's product is YOU.

 

[samcraig]

No. They don't work the same way. Google didn't tell you if they're collecting data and actively exploited ways to collect your data without telling you.

Are you READING the same thread i am?

Yes. Actually I am. And I can understand the flow of the entire thread. The OP was not responding to this incident/exploit. His comments were general statements about how Google and Apple collect user information. Sorry you missed that. You can go back and re-read it though if you're still confused.

And that is why your 'math' is wrong.

The problem isn't with the security being bypassed in general it's that it is done without your consent. If you choose to jailbreak your device then there is no harm, if somebody bypasses security without your consent to collect information on you that you do not want to be given then there is a problem.

It's getting lost in translation over time here. My initial comment was that if it is deemed illegal to exploit iOS via a backdoor then I supposed that it is POSSIBLE that the door to overturn jailbreaking could have a precedent.

That has nothing to do with who is actually exploiting/how it's done or what the overall outcome is. But I'll drop it because too many what if's.

----------

Remember folks, Apple's product is gadgets.

Google's product is YOU.

Naive and rhetoric. Both companies profit over user data

 

[Jazwire]

Another chump change fine. A cost of doing business for Google, and not a significant cost at that.

Yep they spend 2+ million a month on corporate jet fuel.

This fine is pocket change.

 

[reedmartin]

I was only responding to the idea that we should worry about companies "selling info", since that's not how it works. On the contrary, both Apple and Google protect that info from getting out, since their possession of it is exactly what they charge for.

I apologize for misconstruing. That's the second time i did that with you and I'm sincerely sorry!

 

[5aga]

Again that's not an issue. Firecore is doing just that, breaking into iOS and selling software, yet no legal teams hunt them down. Why? This:

you are correct. I should have been more clear in my explination. I was describing how a user can hack his own device.

IF another person or company exploits my devices for their own gain that is illegal.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Nice try. It clearly says that the tenants asked the landlord multiple times to change the locks and he didn't. How is that comparable to Google actively exploiting a loophole, that Apple immediately patched once notified?

Chances are Apple knew about the hole and did not bother to patch. It would not be first time Apple sat on a known hole and make know issue about it until it was exploited.

 

[reedmartin]

Chances are Apple knew about the hole and did not bother to patch. It would not be first time Apple sat on a known hole and make know issue about it until it was exploited.

Oh yeah nice supposition with no basis. The lengths people will go to defend Google is pathetic.

You'd think if there was one thing that was indefensible it would be a company collecting your private data without your knowledge or consent, but nope, the Google apologists think that's ok too! Sad, really.

 

[MisterK]

Slap Apple with the other hand

Google should be reprimanded for doing this, but Apple shouldn't get a free pass when they leave us open to threats after they've been informed about security problems. This could have been anyone. Not just Google. Apple is a big boy now... it has to act like a grown up and mend its fences. We're the ones that suffer when they choose to ignore gaping holes in their systems.

 

[JohnDoe98]

Chances are Apple knew about the hole and did not bother to patch. It would not be first time Apple sat on a known hole and make know issue about it until it was exploited.

What if exploits are discovered on a daily basis at Apple's HQ? Should they be pushing out constant updates to all their apps? Wouldn't that irritate the user to no end? Better to just bundle the patches in next time a release or update is scheduled to roll out, unless of course someone exploits the hole. Then they need to quickly respond, as they did with Flashback. Seems reasonable.

I guess they could build in some option to have updates automatically pushed to you behind the scenes...