Google Looks to Distance Android from Apple vs. Samsung Ruling

[samcraig]

Oh please! If you think NOT giving the consumers what it wants in technology is a bad business model, don't ever go into business.

Look what happened to RIM when they didn't "Wake up". They went down.

It's a lose-lose proposition for those that only want Apple to succeed and/or only consider Apple products. And even that sometimes it's a stretch.

If any phone doesn't look like the iPhone - it's dismissed as crap or a horrible design (on here). If the OS doesn't look or respond like iOS - thne it's crap or a horrible UI (on here). Even when rumored models of Apple's own iPhone alters anything - it's often met here with ridicule.

It's funny to read how people want something different yet are so upset when something changes.

So again it's lose-lose for some members on here. There will be no pleasing them.

 

[Wrathwitch]

Google needs to ditch all relations with Samsung and tell samsung to go make their own os.

Samsung ruins it for everyone.

Nothing like biting the hand that feeds you a majority of chipsets and screen technology etc.

And all this time I thought Apple was the company that sold me products I didn't know I wanted until I saw them.

Guess they should change their slogan to "Here. It's been selling. It's good enough".

That is how I started feeling about Apple about 5 months ago also. perhaps they are giving some people what they want, but not me. So, since there is other options I chose them. I think I will always own an iMac though, just love that machine to bits!

Google stupidly chose Android, which is slow, junky technology.
Google stupidly let Android be used on variety of screen sizes.
Google stupidly let Samsung embarrass it.
Google stupidly is stupidly sticking with Android.

Google is stupid.

Let the comments reflect the intellect of the poster

I bet that half of these patents will be invalidated eventually. Especially the ones Apple claims to have invented but didnt.

There is clear prior art for Pinch to Zoom and Bounce back. They are far to simple patents and should have never been awarded.

But we are looking at the US Patent Office here. The dumbed patent office in the world. The same people who let Microsoft patent the Page Up and down keys.

I really hope you are correct. There are some patents that should not be. Protecting your investment/innovation is important but putting a patent on something that would cripple other companies in developing their handsets is more along the lines of monopoly than protecting one's investments.

If I was Google, I'd look to distance myself from that terrible excuse for an operating system too...

Just *looking* at Android makes me sad - it's like people are settling for second-rate.



I could see were stupid would work; but I would use "arrogant" too. Either works.

I suspect millions of handset users decline to agree with you. Both you or I do NOT represent the whole of tech users with our opinions. I hardly think that my new Android phone, (first ever) after coming from an iP4 is second rate at all. Taste in devices is subjective, but I love your "arrogant" comment, considering YOUR post comes across as the same way.

Samsung and Google standing on a corner.

Google: Hey, Samsung. Look! Here comes the bus.

*PUSH*

I had to laugh at this But in reality, Google DID warn Samsung to get their crap together, which they refused. Here is the result. Worse yet, is they could have purchased a licence with Apple for the stuff they copied, but refused to!

Just curious how many people buy HTC phones because of Sense or Samsung phones because of TouchWiz. I get that these hardware OEM's think they need something to differentiate themselves but is their custom skin the reason people buy their phones?

I went with the hardware side of the coin on my decision. Despite SS copying some of Apple. The hardware is solid, and the reviews of the device performance and fluidity is what convinced me. I was not familiar with Touchwiz. I think I prefer HTC sense better, but I hate HTC (personal issues).

It's a lose-lose proposition for those that only want Apple to succeed and/or only consider Apple products. And even that sometimes it's a stretch.

If any phone doesn't look like the iPhone - it's dismissed as crap or a horrible design (on here). If the OS doesn't look or respond like iOS - thne it's crap or a horrible UI (on here). Even when rumored models of Apple's own iPhone alters anything - it's often met here with ridicule.

It's funny to read how people want something different yet are so upset when something changes.

So again it's lose-lose for some members on here. There will be no pleasing them.

Yep, when you consider that humanity is the only mammal/animal that is stupid enough to s### in it's own food bowl (planet). None of these posts are surprising

 

[tdream]

If Apple tried to challenge a device due to it's colour, and it wasn't thrown out of court and Apple fined for wasting time no matter what any fixed patent states then it would be the most hypocritical biased worthless unlawful court in the land! Black and white phones existed before the iPhone, as did silver and blue etc etc, as surprising as that it

Exactly Apple are the biggest patent troll of all.

 

[sampath]

The Galaxy Nexus doesn't look like any iteration of the iPhone thus far.

Well, it's a phone that has:

1. A large capacitive touchscreen,
2. A minimal number of buttons, and
3. An OS that generally displays apps in a grid of icons

Apparently Apple should be the only company allowed to make such phones, and anyone else following suit are dirty little tea-leaves who should be sued to oblivion. Or something.

 

[LordVic]

No, this just shows they're very good at stealing and even better at covering their tracks. Copy iOS and just change enough little things here and there to NOT make it look like it was copied. A little contrition a LOT too late. It hardly absolves GOOGLE from stealing iOS ideas and implementing many of them in ANDROID.

Wat has Android stolen from iOS in particular?

now i'm talking ANDROID. not samsungs modified homescreen and launcher. But Android.

> Bounce Back scrolling
> Swipe to unlock.

Are you goign to tell me that copying these two items (and it's still debatable), is Copying iOS? The platforms themselves are nothing alike. Operate nothing alike, look nothing alike, and run nothing alike.

The problem is what Samsung did with Android. Samsung knew damn well that they were marketting phones to look and feel as close to iOS as they could.

No, no. Seriously.

What exactly did Android copy from Apple?

 

[Sora]

Samsung's Internal Memo

We initially proposed to negotiate with Apple instead of going to court, as they had been one of our most important customers. However, Apple pressed on with a lawsuit, and we have had little choice but to counter-sue, so that we can protect our company.

Certainly, we are very disappointed by the verdict at the US District Court for the Northern District of California (NDCA), and it is regrettable that the verdict has caused concern amongst our employees, as well as our loyal customers.

However, the judge’s final ruling remains, along with a number of other procedures. We will continue to do our utmost until our arguments have been accepted.

The NDCA verdict starkly contrasts decisions made by courts in a number of other countries, such as the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Germany, and Korea, which have previously ruled that we did not copy Apple’s designs. These courts also recognized our arguments concerning our standards patents.

History has shown there has yet to be a company that has won the hearts and minds of consumers and achieved continuous growth, when its primary means to competition has been the outright abuse of patent law, not the pursuit of innovation.

We trust that the consumers and the market will side with those who prioritize innovation over litigation, and we will prove this beyond doubt.

Source: http://global.samsungtomorrow.com/?p=17705
For those who are source happy

They sound bitter. Like Samsung prioritizes innovation - and Apple doesn't.
Statement is laughable at best.

Edited:
I like Gizmodo's take on Google's statement:

This should be read as a message to Google's other Android OEM partners more than anything, a gentle reassurance that they don't need to run into Windows Phone's arms. Most of those don't even matter, Google coos as HTC scratches its forearm uncomfortably, besides, everybody does it.

It's all true, of course. The appeals system means this case is far from over, and the industry—any industry, really—is built on what came before it. Then again, if Google didn't think patents were critical and sound, it may not have coughed up $12.5 billion for Motorola.

The fact is, this has been Google's shared fight all along. At least last night's statement is an acknowledgment of that, and a glimpse at how the company will try to keep Android—and more crucially, its sure to be skittish partners—floating.

Source: http://gizmodo.com/5938079/googles-response-to-apple-patent-massacre-dont-freak-out-guys

 

[MysticDragon]

For all those that say iOS is old, boring, needs a change etc, what is it you want exactly? And why do you need it?

An argument I hear a lot is that you can't add widgets - but honestly why do you need to?

If you need to check the weather, stocks, or search the internet then what is the problem of loading up the required application? Is it really that a big a deal?

Why buy a car with automatic windows? Can't you just roll the window down to the desired height with your arm? Is it really that big a deal?

Because sometimes it's more convenient.

I have ios devices and I have a GNexus. I don't like any of the companies android overlays, I find ICS / Jellybean stock to look perfect for me.

For me, everything is about customization. I want access to change the font, color, shape, wallpaper, lock screen, animation etc. I want to be able to see my wallpaper and arrange my most used icons around it.

I don't have many widgets but I really loved the friend stream app from HTC. Being able to, at a glance, see all the updates from Google, Facebook, twitter, flikr, etc.. all in the same stream was amazing. I really miss that ability. Saved me opening about 5-6 applications to see if there were updates.

All that being said, I'm still waiting for the new iphone. I didn't get one in the past because there was no way typing on that screen was going to work for me (i tried using my bf's iphone 4 for a week and I just couldn't) I need a 4+ screen. I also didn't like that my battery was dead by 4 from just texting and a few facebook updates. I hope apple really works on their battery life.

 

[2bikes]

There is one thing a lot of people are missing. It is the fact that Microsoft licensed some of Apple patents for the Surface tablet. Nobody knew about this and/or would have guessed it before the trial.

This could mean that there are tons of other licensing agreements between Apple, Microsoft, Google, etc etc. But all we talk about is, how the trial between Apple and Sampple is going affect innovation and how they steal ideas from each other. Maybe they don`t steal from each other and maybe they license but none of us know about it. And it probably is going to be the way moving forward. Samsung just thought they would get away with things in U.S. but didn't. They will either make less money by licensing or make things different. What`s the big deal?!? All Android makers pay fees to Microsoft. Does that stop innovation?

 

[LordVic]

It is a BS comparison. To use your comparison, it is to say that Apple has a patent on any screen you use your finger to operate, ridiculous. Google saw what consumers wanted and the responded, it is as simple as that. My first Android, had free turn by turn navigation, the pull down notifications, speech to text, etc. What about Apple seeing that as something consumers wanted and incorporating into iOS. Apple should count themselves lucky Google doesn't sue them for that, or thier new maps program which I am sure is completely different from Google Maps. It isn't that I don't love my iPhone I do, i just think the verdict was acvictory against innovation rather than for it.

Actually....

Did you read the 90 page document they submitted to the court in 2010 as their opening statement.

This is exactly what Apple is claiming.

To Quote Apples document: U.S. 5,764,218

Method And Apparatus For Contacting A Touch-Sensitive Cursor-Controlling Input Device To Generate Button Values

Patent: 7,479,949

Touch Screen Device, Method, And Graphical User Interface For Determining Commands By Applying Heuristics

There are 90 pages of these and examples that Apple believes they own. Patents that are in my opinion, jokes. This case alone has made the US patent system a laughing stock of the rest of the world.

I'm not trying to say there was no copying by Samsung. There was. Samsung went out of their way to make their devices act and appear similar.

But some of the things Apple has claimed patents for are downright ridiculous.

 

[apolloa]

Exactly Apple are the biggest patent troll of all.

No it doesn't, Apple are using a corrupt and broken system to it's advantage over it's competitors.
Think about it, a colour, the patent office approved a patent on a colour, since when in anyone's intelligence in the common modern world would anyone claim they invented, or that came up with a never before thought of unique colour, and then patent it?

And so I am not so sure they have patented a colour. Because they would be stating the iPhone was the worlds first ever black and white mobile phone.

 

[BaldiMac]

Actually....

Did you read the 90 page document they submitted to the court in 2010 as their opening statement.

This is exactly what Apple is claiming.

To Quote Apples document: U.S. 5,764,218


Patent: 7,479,949


There are 90 pages of these and examples that Apple believes they own. Patents that are in my opinion, jokes. This case alone has made the US patent system a laughing stock of the rest of the world.

I'm not trying to say there was no copying by Samsung. There was. Samsung went out of their way to make their devices act and appear similar.

But some of the things Apple has claimed patents for are downright ridiculous.

These patents may be jokes. But judging a patent based on it's title/summary is misinformed at best.

 

[retinarob]

Apple has been mean mugging Google ever since this trial started.

 

[samcraig]

No it doesn't, Apple are using a corrupt and broken system to it's advantage over it's competitors.
Think about it, a colour, the patent office approved a patent on a colour, since when in anyone's intelligence in the common modern world would anyone claim they invented, or that came up with a never before thought of unique colour, and then patent it?

And so I am not so sure they have patented a colour. Because they would be stating the iPhone was the worlds first ever black and white mobile phone.

Yes. And Samsung, for example is also using the broken and corrupt system as best they can - by making products they believe stand up to some of the absurd patents that may or may not be enforced. Can't blame them. There's probably just a good chance the patents re deemed invalid as they are valid. This time (as of now) - they lost that battle. That doesn't mean any company should avoid trying to test the patent system.

 

[Flitzy]

So you've never really used Android before. Got it.

No, I actually have; and like everything Google does, it's ugly and disorganized.

It absolutely explains why Android is for playing and tinkering until people get a real phone that works and looks good.

I count down the days eagerly until Google puts up the "closed for business" sign and fades off to obscurity.

 

[JForestZ34]

Worst press release ever by a Google spokesperson... now Google & Samsung will put out a marketing ploy to let people think this means less innovation, less competition.

The problem is Apple innovates, and all the rest are just way behind. I am getting more annoyed by everyone in the game besides Apple. They all are falling. Dell & HP may have to hookup rather sooner than later, and in this new case with Samsung falling, Apple will keep on getting stronger, and the rest will follow(the exact opposite of innovating).

Bunch of followers these kids are... Google should just stay quiet. Samsung might want to do the same.

Seems to me apple doesn't innovate everything. Sure they do on some things but to acquire other companies that invented tech and claim it as your own isn't innovating.


James

 

[samcraig]

No, I actually have; and like everything Google does, it's ugly and disorganized.

It absolutely explains why Android is for playing and tinkering until people get a real phone that works and looks good.

You're entitled to your opinion. They must be doing something right since there are millions of people using Android phones. And don't start throwing around how phones are cheaper, there are more phones, etc. Fact is - everyone has their own use case. You say it's crap. I say it isn't. I say Gmail is by far the best browser based email out there. You might differ. I say Google search is the best out there. You want to say it's ugly and disorganized. You did say everything google does is ugly and disorganized. Right? Maps too.

OK.

 

[fastlanephil]

Fast forward five years to eight years.

Apple iOS 60% market share

Microsoft mobile OS 20% market share and rising

Android market share 15% market share and falling

Others 5% market share

 

[sazivad]

Android phones before iPhone, and Android Phones after iPhone [paraphrased]

Sigh. Although I generally support Apple, and personally use and prefer iOS, I can't stand links like these. I don't think it tells the whole story. You should read this article to understand what's really going on here.

Android was always meant for many different kinds of phone - slider, candybar, etc. However, what may have happened is people, after the success of the iPhone, expected smartphones to just be touchscreen and nothing else.

Android phones do come in other form factors other than candybar - at least, I think, because I've never seen them around. Candybar touchscreen is the basic outline of every major smartphone today.

 

[samcraig]

Fast forward five years to eight years.

Apple iOS 60% market share

Microsoft mobile OS 20% market share and rising

Android market share 15% market share and falling

Others 5% market share

Not a chance. Unless Apple starts making more affordable phones - they won't get to 60 percent market share. Profits will escalate over the next 5-8 years. But market share. Not likely.

 

[2bikes]

Not a chance. Unless Apple starts making more affordable phones - they won't get to 60 percent market share. Profits will escalate over the next 5-8 years. But market share. Not likely.

I don't see Apple only updating the one phone model they have for the next 5 years as their business plan (example iPad and iPod). They will have come up with different phones in the future if they want to grow their market share. If not, they have to come up with something better than a smartphone.

 

[LordVic]

Not a chance. Unless Apple starts making more affordable phones - they won't get to 60 percent market share. Profits will escalate over the next 5-8 years. But market share. Not likely.

Dont be silly.

Apple will just sue all the competition, barring them from sales to ensure they're the only real option.

 

[Rocketman]

Your missing a few things here:

1) Apple will make a motion for 3x damages due to willful infringement. There is a good chance that Koh will grant that motion.

2) Apple will motion for an injunction on all infringing Samsung phones. With a jury verdict in their pocket, they will win those injunctions as well. This will severely limit Samsung's lineup to their newest models.

3) Apple and Samsung have another case pending regarding Samsung's most recent smartphone models. This verdict sets some legal precedents for some previously untested patents. Apple may be able to win injunctions against Samsung's latest smartphones as well as a result.

In the end, Samsung will be going back to the drawing board to come up with new designs. Without the "Apple look" that Samsung has been relying there is some question if those designs will resonate with customers in the same way. Apple may have just severely crippled the business of their fiercest competitor copier in the US market. Apple could easily role this win into expanded marketshare. The jury verdict will now put Samsung on the side of the fence where they are waiting on the court schedule to take action and they need to standby while Apple does their thing. Apple has been waiting two years for this verdict and has had to standby and watch Samsung release model after model that infringed the same patents and trade dress and the original smartphone models that were accused in this case. So while Apple awaits payment of their $1B or $3B (the $3B would be the equivalent of Samsung's worldwide mobile division profit from last quarter), Apple will be able to force Samsung to come up with new designs that may or may not be hits if they want to sell in the US market.

Apple is likely to win an order giving up to treble damages of $3.15B. Apple is going to file for an injunction on the infringing products that were willfully infringing, so Samsung will have about a dozen styles of phones deprecated against their will. They will instantly replace them with new infringing units that were not subject of the suit or order. A year or so from now after they have had their entire market life, they too will be removed from market, and some trivially small award will be issued that mostly covers attorney fees.

The lost sales which this suit did not recognize due to JURY SPECULATION that the best supply chain company in the world could not fill, due to supply constraint.

The best possible thing Apple could do is AMEND the current suit to include the remaining claims they were asked to not bring to "simplify" the suit. Although it's hard to imagine with only 3 days of deliberation, how that saved anybody "time". That way by making it part of the current claim they can also retain the favorable pre-trial motions on discovery and such.

Samsung is going to motion to have all the tablets taken off injunction and be awarded damages, which they are likely to get. Apple will motion to have the judge find the jury made a mistake in not finding them to infringe, which is unlikely.

There will be lots of legal and procedural machinations which after all is said and done don't amount to much and makes a few Apple favorable headlines, which is good.

The scale of money even if were $5B in total is insignificant to both companies. It would have been significant if the jury found that Apple had lost sales it could have filled as a result of Samsung selling intentionally infringing products, which is exactly what happened. That would have been tens of billions of dollars additional and would have been meaningful. It's not too late for that in appeal.

Apple should appeal that aspect of the jury ruling as false and speculative and not following their charge. It's the judge's place to determine of they could have filled those orders and we all know they could increase orders to suppliers, and/or had a slight increase in mail and ONLINE ORDERS HAVE DELAYED SHIPMENTS TO COMPENSATE FOR RETAIL SUPPLY FILLS AS A PRIORITY.

Rocketman

 

[tdream]

No it doesn't, Apple are using a corrupt and broken system to it's advantage over it's competitors.
Think about it, a colour, the patent office approved a patent on a colour, since when in anyone's intelligence in the common modern world would anyone claim they invented, or that came up with a never before thought of unique colour, and then patent it?

And so I am not so sure they have patented a colour. Because they would be stating the iPhone was the worlds first ever black and white mobile phone.

"No it doesn't"? I'm not sure what that's meant to refer to but I'll take it as disagreement.

I agree that Apple are using/abusing a corrupt system. Much like when Apple get patents from companies that don't make products using the patent. Apple are collecting a warchest, everybody knows this. For example, clamshell phones. I don't think we're going to see a clamshell phone design from Apple anytime soon, yet they own the patent for this. Strangely clamshell has been done already, but Apple are seeking to patent it nonetheless.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/03/apple-patents-c/

It's one thing to collect patents for corporation protection, it's another to use it to sue another company. Therefore IMO Apple are patent trolls.

 

[ixodes]

There is nothing "initial" about this verdict.

Yes it is very much so, I was using "initial" to make the point that it's still up for more negotiation. Apple wants more money, and Samsung may contest the verdict. As you may or may not know, it's not "done" until the judge drops the gavel for the final time.

Feel free to read up on the latest, it will confirm my statement.

Here I'll help you out:
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/15535594/

 

[kingede]

Well, it's a phone that has:

1. A large capacitive touchscreen,
2. A minimal number of buttons, and
3. An OS that generally displays apps in a grid of icons

Apparently Apple should be the only company allowed to make such phones, and anyone else following suit are dirty little tea-leaves who should be sued to oblivion. Or something.

Well, actually:

1.The iPhone does not have a large capacitive touchscreen (nexus screen area nearly doubles the iphone's)
2.While the iPhone has minimal number of buttons (one), the nexus doesn't (it does not have any buttons at all)
3.Android's general display is a homescreen with widgets and app-shortcuts