Google Reportedly Pays Apple $8-12 Billion Per Year to be Default iOS Search Engine

[Abazigal]

I wonder if google is paying Apple not just to keep google search as default, but also to discourage Apple from developing their own search engine.

This concern must be very real if google is willing to pay Apple so much, contrary to what some claim about how most people would simply opt for google search every time.

I am most curious as to what Apple plans to do if they are no longer bound by the terms of their agreement. And to think that people once said that Apple was at the mercy of service companies like google and Facebook, when it’s clear who has whom by the balls.

 

[otternonsense]

Of course Tim cares about your privacy, it's just that he cares about Google's billions more.

 

[futbalguy]

Not possibly: definitely. Apple facilitate this by providing your demographic information to apps. Any iOS app that wants it.

Most people seem to be ok with that, but I personally turn off the iOS setting that allows my demographic to be distributed in this way. Settings | Privacy | Apple Advertising. Read the accompanying text below that setting.

Apple does not give your demographic data to apps. I’m not even sure what you are talking about. The policy you linked says they assign you to certain segments for the purposes of showing you personalized ads with their ad service. You are lumped into a group of at least 5000 other people and then Apple shows people in that group specific ads. So Apple knows about you but they don’t need to share any of this info with developers to show ads. It specifically says they don’t track your usage across apps.

 

[PsykX]

Although I started hating Google when they blatantly copied iOS while being on Apple's board, I always preferred Google's search engine vs any of their competitors. And it's still true today.

HOWEVER, I ended up being able to switch to DuckDuckGo last year, at least on my iPhone and iPad.
The reason? DuckDuckGo supports Dark Mode, Google doesn't. I know it's a strange reason, but I'm the kind to use my phone surfing the Internet before sleeping and I felt like removing all this white light made me sleep better.

I've also seen quite a few improvements to DuckDuckGo over the last few months. All these little "cards" that Google has, for instance when you search for a movie, when you make a calculation, etc. when switching to DuckDuckGo I realized that these cards were more practical than I thought, but DuckDuckGo ended up implementing most of them too.

 

[rmoliv]

That just goes to show how greedy Apple is.

 

[zombierunner]

Do people really use Bing?

 

[polyphenol]

Do people really use Bing?

Sometimes the maps and aerial imagery beats Google's! Sometimes in quality, sometimes in recency.

Possibly oddly, have found the need to use both Google and Bing to get some aerial view I recently wanted.

(Have found Apple's aerial views still better but that is another direction.)

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

Most people don’t change defaults.

Chrome, the default of only Chromebooks, would like to have a word with you.

Safari and IE/Edge, too.

 

[manu chao]

I knew it was a lot of money but, I would have never guessed it was that much.

A privacy centered company using a company that exploits people’s privacy as the default search engine is crazy stuff.

Do you think:
(a) Apple customers overall would prefer to have another dialogue box during setup where they choose a search engine to the current situation?
(b) Would more than a few percent choose something else than Google?

From Apple's perspective, it probably looks like that 99% of our customers would choose Google anyway, so why not take 'free' money from Google.

 

[Carnegie]

How is this an illegal deal? Something will be default, and that should go to the highest bidder.

The reason it would be illegal - and I'm not saying it is - would be because of how U.S. antitrust law works. If Google has monopoly power in a relevant market - e.g., internet search - and it engages in exclusionary conduct in furtherance of that power, then it is in violation of §2 of the Sherman Act. Paying Apple to be the default on iOS devices could be considered exclusionary conduct which, generally considered, is conduct which (1) harms competitors and (2) doesn't benefit customers.

It wouldn't be illegal from Apple's perspective. But it may be illegal for, e.g., Google to pay Apple to be the default even while it wouldn't be illegal for, e.g., Microsoft to pay Apple to be the default. Their circumstances are different in ways relevant to antitrust law.

 

[Carnegie]

Presumably, though, the result would be a choice screen, not some other default. So everyone will see a list of choices, google being one of them.

How many are going to pick duckduckgo or bing?

Not necessarily, The alternative is Microsoft paying $6 billion to be default. Or some number < $8b and > $0.

Yeah, I don't think Apple's response to Google not paying to be the default (either by choice or because it was ordered not to) would be to have a choice screen at set up. Apple would likely make something else the default.

 

[nylonsteel]

cant remember a day without using goog as search - at least in the last 15 yrs
well good on aapl going with goog and getting 8 billion on top of that
8-12 bil is just chump change for goog
yahoo, aol, bing, what ever the new search by ms is called, etc. - mostly delete from my system preferences

 

[Carnegie]

cant remember a day without using goog as search - at least in the last 15 yrs
well good on aapl going with goog and getting 8 billion on top of that
8-12 bil is just chump change for goog
yahoo, aol, bing, what ever the new search by ms is called, etc. - mostly delete from my system preferences

I wouldn't call it chump change considering that Google's reported total traffic acquisition costs were only $30 billion in 2019.

 

[randomnut]

As much as I dislike google, their search engine is just so far ahead of the others as to not even be a competition. In order for Google to be anti-competitive surely the other search engines need a competitive product to begin with.

 

[nexusrule]

As much as I dislike google, their search engine is just so far ahead of the others as to not even be a competition. In order for Google to be anti-competitive surely the other search engines need a competitive product to begin with.

How can you compete if the dominant company use anti–competitive techniques exactly to avoid that competitors can develop and stay in the market?

 

[Carnegie]

As much as I dislike google, their search engine is just so far ahead of the others as to not even be a competition. In order for Google to be anti-competitive surely the other search engines need a competitive product to begin with.

Part of the argument the DOJ makes is that Google's anti-competitive conduct makes it harder for other search engines to catch up when it comes to quality.

It's a reinforcing cycle. The lack of market share impairs other search engines' abilities to get better. They can't spend as much money on R&D and they don't have access to as much information. So they're less attractive to users and thus can't gain market share. The DOJ's argument is that cycle isn't just the result of natural competitive market forces, it's reinforced by exclusionary - and illegal - conduct by Google.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Funny how people still believes Apple's narrative. That’s bull***t.

The last update on my 4K smartTV (Samsung) forced the installation of Apple Music and Apple TV without my consent, I don’t like the intrusion but what infuriates me the most is that I CANNOT UNINSTALL IT! The option is greyed-out, WTF.

View attachment 974160

The only reason Apple was able to moderately sustain their “privacy” narrative was because Services was not their main business, it was Hardware, but now that they are competing in Music, TV and all those services they will quietly phase it out, THEY WANT/NEED YOUR DATA.

Apple ran a ad business too for several years, I can see them going back to it in the future.

A quick search will show you many examples of how your data does not stay on your iPhone and more specifically you get all sorts of targeted ads everywhere on your phone even by disabling every option possible.

Then blame Samsung, not Apple.

 

[dumastudetto]

Part of the argument the DOJ makes is that Google's anti-competitive conduct makes it harder for other search engines to catch up when it comes to quality.

It's a reinforcing cycle. The lack of market share impairs other search engines' abilities to get better. They can't spend as much money on R&D and they don't have access to as much information. So they're less attractive to users and thus can't gain market share. The DOJ's argument is that cycle isn't just the result of natural competitive market forces, it's reinforced by exclusionary - and illegal - conduct by Google.

The flaw in the argument is Google's main competitor is Microsoft, who are not exactly some cash-starved start-up striving for disruption.

Bing has been around for ages now. Microsoft has thrown a ton of money at it, and they still are. They've baked Bing into everything they can. A big reason why it hasn't really gained traction is the product is inferior to the technology Google offers users. Microsoft has lost its ability to ripoff a rival badly and rely on Windows dominance to reward them as the market winner.

If Microsoft really wanted to, they could easily compete in the bidding to be the default in Safari. They surely know it would be wasted money because Apple users are not going to tolerate the "bing experience" as their default.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Seems like google would lose little traffic but apple would lose a lot of money. (Most people would choose google as their default)

Honestly I think Apple couldn't care less really. Apple loosing 8 Billion/yr is nothing to scoff at but trust I'm sure they'll spin it about security and safety and still offer it as a user option, you know, 'because we believe in choice' (Jobs i.e. Internet Explorer). lol.

 

[cmaier]

Yeah, I don't think Apple's response to Google not paying to be the default (either by choice or because it was ordered not to) would be to have a choice screen at set up. Apple would likely make something else the default.

I don’t think they’d have a choice - I think if google isn’t the default it’s because the govt had prescribed a different solution, and it won’t be “make DuckDuckGo your default”

 

[Shasterball]

I don't, but it's pretty likely, given that Google has a lot of money, and Apple has no reason to prefer their competitor.

I think that's the issue, right? How does Apple know Microsoft wouldn't pay more? (Not that it's all about price). If Apple vetted 4-5 options and picked Google as the best based on legit reasons, that's one thing. Otherwise, it starts to raise eyebrows, especially when one company starts to make 50% of their revenue off another!

 

[Shasterball]

Ask Microsoft if they were willing to pay more than Google. (They aren’t.)

But there can be considerations besides money to prefer one deal over another. There’s no open auction process where highest bidder wins.

How do you know Microsoft isn't willing? And yes, agreed, $$ is just one factor. The process doesn't have to be an auction, though. Just a competitive process.

 

[Jimmy James]

And I switch it over to DDG.

 

[GeoStructural]

Then blame Samsung, not Apple.

Do you really think Samsung is there to promote Apple Music and Apple TV out of kindness? Geez... There is a reason I can uninstall all the other apps and not these two: $$$.

 

[Vanilla35]

Well why an earth would Apple release their own search Engine?

1. They would lose a quarter of their profits
2. and since they “truly” don't believe in monetising privacy and data why would need a search engine, unless of course this has never really been true...see 1. above.

They can still sell your data without having to "compromise" your privacy. Or at least that's what apple will tell us. Most critical people realize the whole privacy gig is a farce.

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I'd guess with increased pressure of regulation on tech, specifically google & cohorts; that they consider it to be worth while to build their own, or maybe buy duck duck go and inject their own optimizations into it.