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No if it works what's problem do you think an update will solve?

By that logic, why upgrade to a new LED TV, when a CRT model from 20 years ago works just as well?

New features and a more refined, more secure operating system are just a couple of things that will make up to date software better. It’s not always about problems.
 
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You do know that Apple already share your data with "Carefully selected partners" ? The biggest difference between Apple and Google is that Apple doesn't disclose who those partners are whereas with Google you can view those companies and choose not to share data if you wish. With Apple you do not have that choice. I'd rather give my data to companies I know than those I don't. But each to their own.

My understanding was you have to opt in when sharing data with Apple. Even then, they aggregate the data after stripping individually recognizable items like IP addresses to keep the end users anonymous. Where are you seeing otherwise?
 
Google's pure EVIL but they are catching up to Apple and have surpassed Apple in most of the other areas (mapping, AI, services, etc). Under Tim Cook, Apple has not innovated much at all.
 
Palm OS's web OS had the swipe up gestures way back in 2011, web OS was ahead of it's time. You must know your phone history. They had the best software but the worse hardware.
 
Great. Another thing to note when having a debate with an android fanboy about who copies who.

I'm a little late on news ... very busy work week.

Is that all you've seen from this Google I/O keynote? I saw something a LOT more powerful and subtle that hits home to American society, and pretty much the world and what hits Apple much more ... yet news articles STILL didn't catch it.

Tal Oppenheimer

> knowledgeable, very pretty, expert presentation that was flawless!
More than that I saw:
Young, yet mature female - amongst many others that Google I/O has featured over the years, more than Apple (for shame Apple, for shame) - in decisive decision and inclusive areas at Google. And very COMFORTABLY being herself ... within 2mins ~ I have a big fobia of missing limbs (too imaginative of fear since childhood) ~ I no longer thought of my fobia ... I focused on the content, her beauty and her confidence. She looked decently dressed too, I mean comfortably being herself NOT HIDING what I and many others (admitedly seeming ignorant yet not intentionally; eyes wide open) consider a hinderance or obstacle or disability.

This has me thinking:
how does she use her Android, Pixelbook/ChromeBook, computer?
How many appliances in her home is 'smart' set and connected to OK Google.
How many other employees worked tirelessly that helped Google LEAPFROG SIRI!?!
 
By that logic, why upgrade to a new LED TV, when a CRT model from 20 years ago works just as well?

New features and a more refined, more secure operating system are just a couple of things that will make up to date software better. It’s not always about problems.
By that logic nothing is ever good enough; what's coming down the road is always better.
[doublepost=1525938716][/doublepost]
Vulnerabilities that constantly need to be patched.
Why would "Vulnerabilities" "constantly need to be patched" either they are patched or they are not patched.
 
All the iPhone X haters here must be frothing at the mouth from Apple’s stock soaring to the iPhone X defining the smartphone panorama out there, both at a hardware and software level.
lol maybe you should see the current stock price increase before posting it's not even close dude
google up +28.85%
apple up +1.31%
 
95% is an even bigger buttload. I couldn't care less if people want this or that feature or are perfectly happy running Android 6. The problem is, the security holes are horrendous, and lack of timely patches is inexcusable.
...which shouldn't matter to you if you choose not to run Android 6, right? Just like if you're running iOS 6 it doesn't mean that you won't be happy, or that this doesn't happen in the real world. I don't understand why people choosing to "run Android 6", security flaws or not, should bother a person who doesn't?
 
I come from a Samsung Galaxy Note 8 and used the S6 in the past, but the one single thing I want from Android is better battery life management! iOS is still 100% after 8 hours overnight. Android 8 and previous version drops down 1% every hour or so... sometimes more. That's all I want!
Android already has really good battery management, your problem is Samsung related. My Pixel XL easily outlasts my iPhone 8+. Unfortunately for Samsung users Samsung ruins android with their own OS.
 
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5% of 90% is still a buttload of people.

Still only half the number of people on iOS 11, and it's been out longer.

Anyway, the fragmentation is the issue. Fragmentation = small user base = less interest from devs = less competition = detriment to the industry as a whole.

I really don't understand why there are people supporting such horrific fragmentation, trying to dress it up as "the users are happy" when a) They don't know that and b) Isn't the point anyway.
[doublepost=1525944711][/doublepost]
Why would "Vulnerabilities" "constantly need to be patched" either they are patched or they are not patched.

Vulnerability A gets discovered, Vulnerability A gets patched.
Vulnerability B then gets discovered, Vulnerability B then gets patched, so on and so forth.

Hence - vulnerabilities constantly need to be patched.
[doublepost=1525945207][/doublepost]
...which shouldn't matter to you if you choose not to run Android 6, right? Just like if you're running iOS 6 it doesn't mean that you won't be happy, or that this doesn't happen in the real world. I don't understand why people choosing to "run Android 6", security flaws or not, should bother a person who doesn't?

He is giving his opinion on the matter, whether someone is personally affected by it makes not a blind bit of difference to the fact that fragmentation on Android is horrendous.
 
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Well, it is more depressing that Siri is far behind Google Assistant. If Apple can't improve by the time WWDC. They should just remove Siri from iOS. It will be just embarrassing letting people use it.

I really hope what we are seeing with Google Assistant will make Apple finally take the time and money to make Siri great. Siri is a joke at this point.

Apple HAS been spending time and money on Adirondack ... far TOO MUCH of it! Experts here developers there and yet still NOTHING to show for it!!

It’s been 3yrs since so many articles interviewing Apple reps of promised updates to Siri. The joke is the interviewers just let Apple ramble on and they only show paltry updates.

Federigihi and everyone of the IOS team needs to be hit full force on the head by the edge of an iPhone 4S’ stainless steel edge every day when they eat until a major upgrade, overhaul, feature set is shown in lengthy extensive live and proven detail that Microsoft, Google, and even IBM can sit-up and take notice!

Siri has some incremental small improvements since the iPhone 4S; not much. I’d want more functionality, at the very least it’s ability to turn on the light in the phone vs improving its natural sounding voice.!!

I’m sick of seeing the “yes” man on stage present triangles with his hands and yet no decent major features to really improve major user experiences. Giles was great really good ... but there should be more for an hour being spent on stage.

Apple is NOT prepared when, not if, 30% of its users wise up, feel comfortable with, and can finally let go of software purchases made on iOS.

Imagine if Alphabet subsidized, working with developers that made cross platform apps allowed a major discount or 1-time free app from iOS to Android to ease the transition?!?!

I’m willing to bet more USA citizens use Alexa daily or hourly after business hours than Siri on their iPhone & ATVs. That should awaken Apple sincerely.
 
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Still only half the number of people on iOS 11, and it's been out longer.

Anyway, the fragmentation is the issue. Fragmentation = small user base = less interest from devs = less competition = detriment to the industry as a whole.

I really don't understand why there are people supporting such horrific fragmentation, trying to dress it up as "the users are happy" when a) They don't know that and b) Isn't the point anyway.

Yes, it is the point. If users are happy (with whatever device they are not upgrading from) then Apple's premium product gets more expensive as all of it's 'new' technology becomes less and less relevant to real every day users, otherwise known as the masses.
It's already happening - the margin between a high end Android device costs less than a high end iOS device. Android is more ubiquitous and easier to access at the lower end of the market - into a (albeit 'fragmented') more universal eco system that is more easy to integrate across platforms (i.e outside of Apple's notorious Walled Garden). All of those people running different fragmented versions of the OS don't care right now as long as they've got an icon driven touch smartphone. When they do start caring, they're more likely to buy something more high end android, but they are less likely to buy into an even more expensive iOS device if they already own android devices.

This is extended into Homekit, Siri vs Alexa, iCloud vs any other cloud, Not being able to play Spotify on a HomePod natively, and eventually MacOS vs Touch Hybrid Operating Systems, whether you like it or not, and even hardware e.g surface studio vs iMac and so on.

I used to be against fragmentation too, but I was locked in to that walled garden and probably needed to convince myself that this was the best way to operate. It turns out that in 2018 fragmentation (otherwise known as 'Open' systems) licensed out to whomever wants to implement the software, is a good thing. It means that a universal, cross platform standard can be achieved with creating a monopoly on hardware sales. Devices, Home assistants, speakers, cars, entertainment, internet, apps, cloud, pretty much anything you can think of can be tweaked to fit the required usage.

There's nothing wrong with having different access points. There are more categories than ever before, and it's now a network of thousands or more smaller niches. Apple's approach of slicker, prettier, more expensive, and aclosed eco system for higher profits is one way and that's fine, but it doesn't actually mean that they make better products - there's plenty of a history of mistakes there too.

And one more thing about security that people like to talk about.

You don't think Apple have had problems with security in the past? What information of yours is Google using against you? Have you got a facebook/twitter/instagram/bank account? Do you think you're not being watched every time you go shopping? Have you got a credit/store/library card? Just what are you doing to keep your passwords safe? What is happening with ANY of your digital online presence? How do you know that using your Apple device is any better than anything else? Did you hear a rumour? What's that? Google take all of your information and store it just in case they need to bust you (for something, I don't know what) or sell it to evil advertisers!

Give me a break...
 
Yes, it is the point. If users are happy (with whatever device they are not upgrading from) then Apple's premium product gets more expensive as all of it's 'new' technology becomes less and less relevant to real every day users, otherwise known as the masses.
It's already happening - the margin between a high end Android device costs less than a high end iOS device. Android is more ubiquitous and easier to access at the lower end of the market - into a (albeit 'fragmented') more universal eco system that is more easy to integrate across platforms (i.e outside of Apple's notorious Walled Garden). All of those people running different fragmented versions of the OS don't care right now as long as they've got an icon driven touch smartphone. When they do start caring, they're more likely to buy something more high end android, but they are less likely to buy into an even more expensive iOS device if they already own android devices.

This is extended into Homekit, Siri vs Alexa, iCloud vs any other cloud, Not being able to play Spotify on a HomePod natively, and eventually MacOS vs Touch Hybrid Operating Systems, whether you like it or not, and even hardware e.g surface studio vs iMac and so on.

I used to be against fragmentation too, but I was locked in to that walled garden and probably needed to convince myself that this was the best way to operate. It turns out that in 2018 fragmentation (otherwise known as 'Open' systems) licensed out to whomever wants to implement the software, is a good thing. It means that a universal, cross platform standard can be achieved with creating a monopoly on hardware sales. Devices, Home assistants, speakers, cars, entertainment, internet, apps, cloud, pretty much anything you can think of can be tweaked to fit the required usage.

There's nothing wrong with having different access points. There are more categories than ever before, and it's now a network of thousands or more smaller niches. Apple's approach of slicker, prettier, more expensive, and aclosed eco system for higher profits is one way and that's fine, but it doesn't actually mean that they make better products - there's plenty of a history of mistakes there too.

And one more thing about security that people like to talk about.

You don't think Apple have had problems with security in the past? What information of yours is Google using against you? Have you got a facebook/twitter/instagram/bank account? Do you think you're not being watched every time you go shopping? Have you got a credit/store/library card? Just what are you doing to keep your passwords safe? What is happening with ANY of your digital online presence? How do you know that using your Apple device is any better than anything else? Did you hear a rumour? What's that? Google take all of your information and store it just in case they need to bust you (for something, I don't know what) or sell it to evil advertisers!

Give me a break...


WHOOSH!

You're excusing terrible fragmentation, poor security, poor compatibility and planned obsolescence.

Stop it, it's embarrassing.
 
WHOOSH!

You're excusing terrible fragmentation, poor security, poor compatibility and planned obsolescence.

Stop it, it's embarrassing.

You think Apple don't Support Fragmentation? Have you seen the lineup? I can still get an iPhone SE, 6, 6+, 7, 7+ 8, 8+, X new on contract from most networks here in the UK. iPad mini, iPad, Pro 9.7, 10, 12. MacOS, iOS, TVOS, Apple watch and Watch OS, and what HomePod does nobody knows - Siri OS? Fragmentation is choice, and it's even inevitable for tech companies if they want to make a profit. Just ask Apple. I'm not defending poor security any more than you are defending great security. And don't get me started on planned obsolescence! Just ask any MacBook Pro user about planned obsolescence, or Mac Pro user, or Mac Mini, or iPod, or pretty much anything else produced in 2018. Welcome to now.
 
You think Apple don't Support Fragmentation? Have you seen the lineup? I can still get an iPhone 6, 6+, 7, 7+ 8, 8+, X new on contract from most networks here in the UK. iPad mini, iPad, Pro 9.7, 10, 12. MacOS, iOS, TVOS, Apple watch and Watch OS, and what HomePod does nobody knows - Siri OS? Fragmentation is choice, and it's even inevitable for tech companies if they want to make a profit. Just ask Apple. I'm not defending poor security any more than you are defending great security. And don't get me started on planned obsolescence! Just ask any MacBook Pro user about planned obsolescence, or Mac Pro user, or Mac Mini, or iPod, or pretty much anything else produced in 2018. Welcome to now.

Don't know what tree you're barking up but I'm clearly talking about OS version fragmentation.
 
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Great. Now when will Apple show off iPhone with new Google Assistant style Siri?
 
By that logic nothing is ever good enough; what's coming down the road is always better.

In the vast majority of cases, this is absolutely true. Of course, there are rare exceptions, such as the Shure SM-58 vocal microphone. It was originally released in 1966 and, to this day, remains the industry standard for live performances. However, its components have been improved upon countless times in the 52 years it's been in existence.
 
Those are not iPhone X gestures. iPhone X and Android P both took what was once known as MeeGo gestures (Nokia N9).
 
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“OK, Google, suggest some names for our versions of ARKit and Core ML!”

[realistic 'umm'] "AR Core and ML Kit work?”
 
In the vast majority of cases, this is absolutely true. Of course, there are rare exceptions, such as the Shure SM-58 vocal microphone. It was originally released in 1966 and, to this day, remains the industry standard for live performances. However, its components have been improved upon countless times in the 52 years it's been in existence.
If you're going down the music route what about the Gibson Les Paul guitar (made 1952) or the Fender Stratocaster (made 1954). Neither has ever been improved.
 
...which shouldn't matter to you if you choose not to run Android 6, right? Just like if you're running iOS 6 it doesn't mean that you won't be happy, or that this doesn't happen in the real world. I don't understand why people choosing to "run Android 6", security flaws or not, should bother a person who doesn't?

I'm on Android 7, but I'm sure I'm not up to date on security stuff, as it has to go from Google to Samsung to AT&T and then eventually to me a month or two or three later. On an iPhone, it goes directly to the user from Apple. Android is a mess because of the update system not making updates available in a timely manner even when they are available.

Meanwhile, the iPhone 5s is getting updates within a few days of them coming out. Is the Galaxy S4 up to date? Nope. It's on Android 5 I think.

Android's update situation is getting somewhat better, but it's still terrible. Even if iOS 11 slows down a 5s, it still works. If it's good enough for some people, great, it's up to date, secure, and people can choose whether the speed and features are enough for them.
 
This is a pathetic, scuffed excuse for gestures - which Android will never be able to do correctly simply because they do not own the patents.
 
If you're going down the music route what about the Gibson Les Paul guitar (made 1952) or the Fender Stratocaster (made 1954). Neither has ever been improved.

As a guitarist, I couldn't disagree more. While the trademark shape of both guitars hasn't really changed, just about everything else about them has, from the materials to the neck profile to the components (wood, pickups, wiring, nut, knobs, tuners, various hardware). There's a reason why a Les Paul from the 50s commands astronomical prices. In terms of musical instruments to phones, I think a phone would be more similar to an amplifier, in technological terms.
 
As a guitarist, I couldn't disagree more. While the trademark shape of both guitars hasn't really changed, just about everything else about them has, from the materials to the neck profile to the components (wood, pickups, wiring, nut, knobs, tuners, various hardware). There's a reason why a Les Paul from the 50s commands astronomical prices. In terms of musical instruments to phones, I think a phone would be more similar to an amplifier, in technological terms.
I'm also a guitarist and the fact that Jimmy Page played a 1959 Les Paul and Hendrix just used a stock 1968 Stratocaster makes me believe guitar players were not held back by the tools of their trade.
 
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