Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Just out of curiosity, I checked out the XDA forums just because I've never been there before. Here's a great comment I saw in the very first thread I read:



Yep, you're right, no immaturity over there at all. :rolleyes:

Is the majority of people saying that? I didn't think so. Just become a minority are being immature, doesn't meant the whole community is as immature.

Maybe I should stick an Apple logo in a bin... wait, I'm mature enough to respect both Microsoft and Apple.
 
I think the most profitable move for Google plays out like this....

1) first you turn the customers for all the major handset competitors into Android customers and commoditize the mobile phone industry.

2) you acquire one of the manufacturers

3) you squeeze the existing manufacturers out of the market with licensing terms that heavily favor google (including closing the source code)

4) you claim all those mobile phone customers for yourself since you become the one-stop shop for the best Android phones

The only problem with this plan is that it depends on Android-loyalty. Surveys indicate that customer satisfaction with Android may not be high enough to pull all the Android customers under one roof. The other problem is that this would have to be executed in baby steps (i.e. Squeezing out the competitors) in order to avoid tripping alarms with the FTC.

if Google executes a plan to centralize Android manufacturing in-house, I think they will have the opportunity to vastly improve the Android experience through more control.

The other problem with all of this is that Google would be accused of hypocrisy, but they have dealt with that already.

EDIT: I'm still speculating here and trying to figure out the non-patent angle on this since Moto's patents have so far done nothing to trigger a decent cross-license with Microsoft.

Find your scenario to be highly unlikely, and i fail to see what you are backing your reasoning with.

Second, even ignoring that, in your scenario the likely counter-move by the OEM:s are:

1) "the symbian route", which in this case probably would mean a joint forking of Android; the beauty of open source is that no one can stab you in the back.

and/or

2) "the windows turn", windows phone (and windows 8) is going to take substantial shares in the market whatever critics say.

---

Bottom line: Moto will stay Moto. Moto will not get any perks being owned by Google (other than being a "nexus" perhaps). Why? Because that is how it works (e.g. the reason why Moto left the Symbian consortium was that they thought it got to closely linked to Nokia. Similarly, palm separated its hardware and software division to (re)gain OEM-trust. Hardly any shortage of industry examples like these...).

Google has no interest in a 10-15% share, even if it was in a high-profit segment. Google is in the business of information. As such, they don't care as much about how much money they earn by you owning a "google device". What they do care about is the information they get from you using said device. If they could, they would gladly give you the razor (device) and make money on the blades (information).


If google wants control, they just need to do what MSFT is currently doing and enforce strict (minimum) requirements. Make them tiered for all i care, but its a very easy way of reducing the current fragmentation issues the android platform is currently experiencing.
 
No, your reasoning is bogus. Android hasn't been proven to violate any patents and all patents are valid until proven otherwise. Seeing as Motorola is a pioneer in wireless technology I'd say their patents will be pretty strong.


The ITC disagrees with you.

Yes, they are, they are, and will remain, a separate company and will be doing exactly that. Seeing as Google make most of their money in advertising, MM's profitability or otherwise will have little influence on the share price.

You do realize that they can't be a "separate company" in the way you mean, right? Google "will run Motorola Mobility as a separate business." It's run by Google. It's profits and losses ultimately accrue to Google.
 
Explain precisely HOW this will be good for consumers.

All of a sudden Google has $12 billion LESS that they can invest in better search algorithms, faster servers, or pay in salaries to Google software engineers.

If Google really "cared" about Android consumers, it would pay half a million Android developers ten grand each to write decent Apps for its tablets. Then it might have a chance competing against the iPad. Instead, $12 billion gets paid out to Motorola shareholders, and neither the Google nor the Motorola experience gets one whit better.

Its very difficult for any sane person to see this as anything other than a purely defensive move on the part of Google.

Yeah, Google is really hard up for cash. And $10,000 won't buy even a crappy application for any phone. But yeah, it's a defensive move, what were you expecting them to do, lie down and give up? Arguably Motorola products will improve with their closeness to the source of Android software, though.

This is a very clever move by a very clever company.
 
Yeah, Google is really hard up for cash. And $10,000 won't buy even a crappy application for any phone. But yeah, it's a defensive move, what were you expecting them to do, lie down and give up? Arguably Motorola products will improve with their closeness to the source of Android software, though.

This is a very clever move by a very clever company.

Yeah. Spending a large portion of your cash to buy a large entity involved in a business far outside your core competency and with a completely different corporate culture always turns out well... oh, wait a minute...
 
The ITC disagrees with you.



You do realize that they can't be a "separate company" in the way you mean, right? Google "will run Motorola Mobility as a separate business." It's run by Google. It's profits and losses ultimately accrue to Google.

The ITC hasn't proven anything. They are not arbiters of patents. They have made their own ruling which is not the same.

Yeah they are a separate legal entity owned by Google. They will be run by the same people as before. Just because the shareholders change, it means what? Long term strategy might change a bit. Their patents may be moved to Google. It's still a separate company. Google makes profits from all over the place, and now from this new company? So what? It's a drop in the ocean.
 
Yeah, Google is really hard up for cash. And $10,000 won't buy even a crappy application for any phone. But yeah, it's a defensive move, what were you expecting them to do, lie down and give up? Arguably Motorola products will improve with their closeness to the source of Android software, though.

This is a very clever move by a very clever company.

It would only be clever if Apple did it. No other companies are clever except Apple.
 
"Most likely not be the case?" Based on what? You still haven't even tried to explain why Google spent $12B for just patent protection. You haven't explained why the "statements" are all nearly identical. You haven't explained why Google won't try to earn value for its $12B purchase. You are committing the logical fallacy of assuming that "android's business model" is perpetually static, and will never change. And you provide no basis for why your viewpoint is superior to mine - unlike me, you also have no documented history on these boards of actually being right about anything.

Maybe you're being 'selective' in what I am saying. I do recall stating in my previous posts that Google eventually wants to get into the Set Top Box business. What does Motorola have? An existing set top box business that Google can tap into. There could be plenty other reasons too, relating to Motorola's existing hardware business. I'm not a Mr. Know it all. Neither you or anyone else can explain the reasoning behind the exact $12Bn figure.

I'm only making an explicit comment that Google wouldn't 'shoot itself in the foot' by exclusively nurturing Motorola over Google's other partners in the smartphone industry. Like I said, we'll see whose right 4-6 months from now. Evidence is pointing towards a benign acquisition role on the part of Google.

Until then, nobody really knows what the extent of Google's reach will be in Motorola Mobility Inc, until we see what Google does with it in the flesh as it happens.
 
Yeah. Spending a large portion of your cash to buy a large entity involved in a business far outside your core competency and with a completely different corporate culture always turns out well... oh, wait a minute...

LOL. Google does lots of things, why should they be limited to search and advertising? You seem to think they should give up on Android, which is beside the point. And you seem utterly unable to accept that Motorola Mobility will be run as a separate company, so corporate culture is irrelevant.

Please, get a clue, your non-sequiters are laughable.
 
I've added your comment to my list of quotes. I think I speak for a lot of people when I say you are one of the greatest apple evangelicals to have ever landed on the planet.

I sincerely hope you put as much effort into other areas of life as you do with (blind) worship for Apple and Steve Jobs.
*LTD* is one of thew few people who has the guts to tell things how they really are. No cool-aid or rose coloured glasses for him. You can say he blindly follows Apple but you'd be very wrong. Read his posts and you'll see this.

You and a lot of people on these forums could learn a lot from that this person says.
 
*LTD* is one of thew few people who has the guts to tell things how they really are. No cool-aid or rose coloured glasses for him. You can say he blindly follows Apple but you'd be very wrong. Read his posts and you'll see this.

You and a lot of people on these forums could learn a lot from that this person says.

I've got some oceanfront property in Kansas I can sell you for a good price.
 
There does not have to be an overt bias directly toward Motorolo android phones for them to become the "de facto" Android phones. All is takes is for Google to demand (which they will) that Motorolo do Android "right". They now have a company where they can dictate how Android is implemented so I will be shocked if they does not mean it will be a better Android experience for consumers.

I agree. However I don't think the other OEMs will be left out. The net effect of this will be good - other Android OEMs will up their game and compete on quality of hardware, experience, features etc. and we will likely see much better Android user experience across the OEMs.
 

Wait, a picture of a product you like elicits a positive response in your brain?? The horror of the Apple Cult!!!

No, its a question of position, dominance and longevity. The Friendster craze lasted about 2 years... Myspace was dominant for around 3 or 4.... hotmail used to be the best free email service online back in 1996. Yahoo, Altavista, Hotbot and Webcrawler were all the kings of internet search at some point for ~ 1-2 years apiece whereas Google is going on a decade of being the clear leader with most of their premier applications. Apple has only recently taken the crown of most phones sold, and they will probably lose it by this time next year. Android surpassed iOS in activations and active users earlier this year and it is still growing faster than iOS.

You only think it is a silly comparison because it exposes areas where Apple has little presence or success. Steve Jobs is itching to get rid of Google software on iPhones.... so apparently he finds it to be relevant (even if you don't).

Oh ok, so again, comparing a three year old smartphone to a search engine, is valid in your eyes, and a 1:1 comparison of longevity? That is what you're saying?

Would you like to try to compare apples to apples, or would you like me to try to convince you that oranges are a better vegetable then carrots?

Oh and position, domination and longevity huh? Ok:

1) iPhone is the top selling phone on both US carriers it's on, and by quite a lot (position)
2) Apple leads in every metric except marketshare, with one device, outsells many phones combined (every quarter), and last week was the most valuable company in the world (dominance)
3) The iPhone4, a year and a half old phone, outsells every 4G android phone combined, and is barely beaten by every 3g android phone combined. The 3G, a three year old phone was number four of the most sold phones in 2010. Number one? The iPhone 4. Numbers two and three? A nokia, and a windows phone. (longevity)

Again, you're short sighted. Apple's stock value is just that, a stock value. It has no bearing on the assets of the company itself. Let me ask you this (since Apple isn't a cult)... what bearing does Apple's success with massive profits have on you or for the country as a whole? They aren't making the iPhones any cheaper (still $200, as I recall) and all Apple is doing with their cash at the moment is suing their competitors. What do you 'get' from their relative success? Do you own their stock? (if you do, sell because it will go down in a few weeks) Google uses their money to fund research, new products and new technology (voice recognition, machine translation) and new services for the public at large that ANYONE can use for free.

Their value has no bearing on my daily life at all. What does it have on yours? Nothing, right? So, you just decided one day to hate a company for no reason, and generalize all its userbase as a cult? Is that caused by some need to fit in, or do you just want somebody to hate? Or did Apple do something to you? Or maybe you're just one of the verbatim "Apple makes great products, I just hate their philosophy" guys, right? I'd love to know the answer to that one. Feel free to actually answer the question and not spit out the usual regurgitated garbage. Why do you hate Apple?

And clearly you have no idea how the economy works if you think Apple is just "suing their competitors"...

The only thing Apple gives out for free are subpeona's for patent court cases.

Silly statement time? Don't mind if I do. The only thing Google does is steal IP....was that good enough?


Should I remind you that there are more Android phones sold than iPhones?

Should I remind you that iPhone has a 28% marketshare, against 300 other phones?


I'm not downplaying their success at all. Just because a company makes a lot of money doesn't mean that what it does is worthy of admiration. Apple sells middling hardware with crippled software by marketing it to non-tech savvy consumers. Then when someone develops a better product than them they try to sue that other company out of the market. They are worse than Microsoft in the 1990's and their (Apple's) customers are twice as obnoxious. Color me unimpressed.

So a tangible metric like profits leaves you unimpressed, but you're jumping for joy over marketshare in a saturated market? How does that work?


You're kidding, right? Google didn't exist in 1997, and 10-12 years later they are spanking Microsoft, Apple, and almost every other technology company that competes with them. I would say that Apple in the 1980's was more successful and revolutionary than Google is today, but times have changed. Anyone who has ever been on the internet has probably used 2 or 3 of google's services (search, email, maps). I know a great many people who have gone their entire lives never even having touched a Mac or an iPhone.

This is funny. Again, your idea of "spanking" is simply market share, right? Well no, I take that back. It's also comparing mobile phones to search engine...:confused: That's the metric you use for success? There's no other metric that can gauge a company's success? Feel free to actually answer that, and not throw out silly phrases like "smacking" and "spanking".

And you know "a great many people"? LOL. Forget the people who've "never even touched a Mac or iPhone". Can you even name 70 people you know? Gimme a break. Sorry buddy, your 10 family members who have the same silly views as you doesn't somehow make you right...

Nuff said.

This was cute. I lol'd.
 
Not likely. They're already in bed with Nokia, and Nokia definitely makes nicer hardware. I can see that acquisition happening soon.



No big loss. While WP7 is actually a nice platform, the ecosystem is just not there, and frankly that's what's needed for a successful phone platform.

1) To buy Nokia they'd have to cough up over 30bn easily. That money can be spent more wisely. (Not saying that Nokia is not worth it, but just that.)

If Nokia crashes completely, and stand on the verge of liquidation, then yes. MSFT would probably try to acquire it. They have nice assets that MSFT could really use (assets they probably have access to now or in the near future through licensing).

2) The Wp-ecosystem is growing as fast as the iphone system did, faster than the Android system did. Second, there are several trends and economical as well as technological factors that work in their favour (not mentioning the fact that MSFT has tons of cash to throw at this, remember the xbox?).
 
The patent side to this story is starting to make much more sense with gigaom reporting on the alternative to a Google acquisition. I had a hard time on how Google would effectively use these patents to defend Android, but the decision seems partially based on the fact that the alternative was Microsoft acquiring Motorola Mobility solely for the patent portfolio - which makes sense since Motorola had started going after other Android manufacturers for royalties as well.

If Microsoft had acquired Motorola's patents as well, it would have been a serious blow to Android. So while Google is going to use these patents, a big part of this will be keeping those patents out of the hands of Microsoft. This was as much a defensive move as it was an offensive one. Kinda like Microsoft acquiring Skype to keep it out of Google's hands.
 
No, your reasoning is bogus. Android hasn't been proven to violate any patents and all patents are valid until proven otherwise. Seeing as Motorola is a pioneer in wireless technology I'd say their patents will be pretty strong.

:D And yet that was exactly Google's reasoning when the Apple consortium purchased the Nortel patents.

Android obviously does violate patents. As evidenced by the fact that Android manufacturers are paying Microsoft to license patents. And the fact that Google feels the need to acquire patents to "defend" Android. Why would they spend $12 billion to defend Android against patents that it doesn't violate?
 
1. *LTD* made it fit so well to what the topic subject is. If Google want to play in the vertical integration game, they'd better be prepared to go the whole way. All or nothing.

Bogus premise. There are more than one way to run a business and be successful. Google isn't playing the deeply vertically integrated card so it doesn't matter if they don't.

Second, it is farce to call Apple a deep vertical integrator. When Ford had the railway, steelmill , factory and dealers... that was deeply vertical. Apple just isn't allowing clone vendors. The don't make anything. It is all subcontracted out. There is not alot of difference between an independent subsidiary and hardware subcontractors. is "motoBlur" doomed? Probably. But that is a minor aspect to the phone offering. The moto offering will probably be more of a pure development build version. However, it isn't like the other vendors are either

1. going to give up on tweaking the UI to differentiate.

2. loose access to the ( more Android phones sold means more money) the core OS (which is open source). The additonal "Google parts" ( maps ,a few UI gagets, etc) will still be the same stuff they were buying before.

3. I bet the Google license fee is still lower than Microsoft's so there will be adversiont jumping into bed with them despite the FUD Microsoft is sure to spread around.

2. Tim Cook's little speech so sums up Apple's ethos. And the competition need to understand it's this you need to copy from Apple.

Android is not anymore an iOS clone than Mac OS was a clone of Xerox.
Google is Google. They don't have to be Apple.

What Google needs is an open platform to deliver the web that has the broadest coverage. (were some CEO can wake up and on a whim kill off a class of apps or declared apps can only be built with the foobar language or whatever ). Broad coverage is going to require working with a mix of hardware vendors. There is no way Google can make every variation itself (any more than Apple can. )


RIM isn't going to deliver that. Neither is Apple. Microsoft already forked the webbrowser standards once... going to bet the company on them? no.

An open source solution needs a company behind it who can make sure the boring stuff gets done that needs to be done and most everyone would like to punt paying for. it really makes no sense to have an open system and then close off the hardware deployments.

If the only way the Moto guys can make money is to hoard software then they should fire that set of Moto guys and hire some others who can get the job done. The high margin business for Google would remain advertising. How is Apple's ad business going?
 
Just out of curiosity, I checked out the XDA forums just because I've never been there before. Here's a great comment I saw in the very first thread I read:

Yep, you're right, no immaturity over there at all. :rolleyes:

first of all.. neither I or VitaminD ever said those immature posts don't exist there.. second.. way to cherry pick. guess how many responses that poster received: 0 ..like i said.. ignore them and they go away. go to the actual meat of XDA, which are the development sections:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=638

also, from that same thread and page you picked from:

MartyLK said:
This is one example of why Google is for humanity."

Response from ferparedes:
Give it a rest. They aren't for "humanity". They're first and most important obligation is to their shareholders. After that it's probably their employees. After that it's you.

there are sensible members there who keep immature ones in check too.
 
Having just bought an Atrix, this news pleases me, hopefully it'll mean Motorola are a bit more forthcoming with updates for us outside the US.
 
What I love about Motorola is that it's like watching Zeno's paradox in action... If a company spins off half of itself, then half of what remains, and then half again, etc, will it ever really go out of business?
 
Sheesh. What have Nokia and Microsoft done recently in the mobile field? Nokia WAS dominant and squandered its position; MS has never been dominant in mobile and despite having cash and stamina seems unlikely to ever dominate mobile--because they are playing catch-up to Android and Apple.

I have zero idea where you get the idea I believe Apple has ever patented "magic." What Apple has been able to do is to create entire new eco-systems and then dominate them. And yes, MS did that with Windows and Office, but those are past tense--and given their continuing erosion I'm not sure how you think a Nokia-MS partnership is any kind of behemoth in waiting.

The Nokia-MS partnership reminds me of Sears and K-Mart merging--two former companies that dominated their respective markets and then got annihilated by the newer kids on the block as newer markets developed.

Depends on your definition of "recently", really.

As for 'squandered' their position, its hardly a surprise that incumbent firms have a harder time to deal with (disruptive) innovation than new entrants, heck, there must be an airport of crap business literature on this.

As for MS, they were never dominant in gaming either, and they surely "failed" at first in that market too. With persistence (and a few billions of losses) they came out strong in the end though. Given the obvious potential of Windows phone, and the coming convergence of platforms starting with W8, i have no doubt that MSFT will have a majority of the (multi-platform) market in 2015 (>60%).

p.s. as for your "catch-up" argument, its cute that you actually think that such things matter. first, they are catching up, and in a few respects are probably already past their competition. second, the war will not be won by winning the early adopters. 90% of all people who will have a smart phone in 2015 are ignorant to these things, and 90% of those are not willing to pay a usd 500 premium (which is why Apple will not be a dominant player ever, and probably couldn't care less about it).

p.s 2. "current erosion". Aww. MSFT has a 90+ share of the pc-market. A 90++ share of the business market. A >30% profit on revenue. An ecosystem larger than the ego of all Apple fans combined (i.e. gi-normous).
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.