Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
LOL and the damage control begins.Time to face the facts here.iPhone sales are going to decline from hereon in.And at least 70% of Apple depends on iPhone for their profits.Theres no way but down from here.Alphabet/Google is where the real innovation and investor interest lies.Cant say I blame them.Apple has become a stagnant company off late
[doublepost=1454424339][/doublepost]
Exactly.Someone nees to tell Ive and TC that making the iPhone thinner wont generate consumer interest.New screen tech,wireless charging,second screen like on the V10,and edge LED like on the S6 are examples of innovation
Could you show me the magic numbers of phone sales from Google ?
Could you show me the magic numbers of computer sales from Google ?

Yes....almost inexistent ....

Real innovation: a lot of gimmicks, good as a bait for mining more users data.

But I really enjoy the way you are cheering the "Apple fall". Finally you showed your true nature here.
I really can't understand how an "Apple user" could welcome an Apple decline.
Unless....

The S6 Edge does not sell more IN THE USA.Dont speak for other countries.In Australia,I have seen way more S6 than the 6s
In a parallel dimension maybe.
Worldwide the iPhone still is the most sold high end model, BY FAR.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WWPD
The secret to Google is they're more diversified in technology for the future and the culture is more diversified too compared to a more forced Apple culture (compare executive team from both companies).

Yeah, why isn't Tim Cook a bisexual vitiligo hermaphrodite?​

9c0c70da66ffbe2b431c871a47fca6f2

eric-schmidt.png


„Only having sex with other men is so not diverse.“ – says Eric Schmidt​
 
Last edited:
It's not the CEO, it's simply the products. The mess is just like it with MS.
Windows struggles to innovate because of the legacy crap - why does windows have to be able to run every program still since 1983?

iOS is a cesspool of code, OS X is bloated and both are buggy and showing their age. The eco system is creaking at the seams and it just doesn't work anymore. Stop chasing every nook and cranny, screw the IPP, the AW, AM the pen - discontinue them, then double down on sorting out the mess. Abandon the yearly cycle of new bugs and old bugs re-done and bring back stability and a cross platform that works..

Lol, it's amusing.... an half financial news and Apple is doomed. Again.
Tim Cook and his executive staff are starving on the sidewalk, in despair.
 
But I really enjoy the way you are cheering the "Apple fall". Finally you showed your true nature here.
I really can't understand how an "Apple user" could welcome an Apple decline.

I don't think anyone here really wants to see Apple fail or anything, I think this sort of situation should be more of a wake-up call for Apple to get their act together (again) and make some substantial changes in order to get their mojo back. Clearly, the direction they're going in isn't gonna change any of that. A lot of changes need to be made both at executive management levels as well of their newly bloated product lineup. Apple needs some new blood to recapture that magic and some products and services either need to be completely overhauled or discounted completely. Apple really needs some focus and they've lost that focus since they're trying too hard to do everything and spread out their resources too thin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Benjamin Frost
I don't think anyone here really wants to see Apple fail or anything, I think this sort of situation should be more of a wake-up call for Apple to get their act together (again) and make some substantial changes in order to get their mojo back. Clearly, the direction they're going in isn't gonna change any of that. A lot of changes need to be made both at executive management levels as well of their newly bloated product lineup. Apple needs some new blood to recapture that magic and some products and services either need to be completely overhauled or discounted completely. Apple really needs some focus and they've lost that focus since they're trying too hard to do everything and spread out their resources too thin.
Mate, honestly : there are people on this forum really celebrating since the announcement of expected decline in iPhone sales. CELEBRATING.
I just quoted one above.

As an apple user there are things I like them to do better, but if you celebrate Apple's fall, well, the definition of your presence here is well known (but I can't use ;) ).
 
Mate, honestly : there are people on this forum really celebrating since the announcement of expected decline in iPhone sales. CELEBRATING.
I just quoted one above.

As an apple user there are things I like them to do better, but if you celebrate Apple's fall, well, the definition of your presence here is well known (but I can't use ;) ).

Falling sales should encourage Apple to come up with more exciting product additions sooner rather than later.... Which is a positive thing. Your looking at the negative - glass is half empty side.
 
Aaaaand were calling people stupid now.

I doubt you have any experience in the field of AI. I, however, have years of education in neurobiology and neuroscience in general as well as years of experience in computer programming, including building convolutional neural networks. So please, if anyone should realize that they are ill equipped to speak on this topic, it should be you.

We are actually very close to building human level intelligence AI. IBM recently built a neural simulation with far more neurons than contained in the human brain. With some fine tuning of the models, a more accurate map of an actual human brain, we really aren't that far away.

There's a phenomenon called emergent complexity. This phenomenon allows simple bees to weigh an enormous number of factors when deciding the best place to build a hive, and they usually come pretty close to the mathematically ideal place. AI is likely to work the same way. It only takes a few dumb components to create a breathtakingly complex and rich system.

Regardless of what you think, a large scale effort to make Siri smarter is a much better idea than an Apple car, simply because a flaw in Siri won't kill people, among a hundred other enormous reasons. Google recently invested in DeepMind, one of the best investments I've seen in recent years, and if Apple continues to ignore the field of deep learning and neural networks they're in for a very rude awakening very soon, especially when Google integrates this tech into Android and Google Now. Google Now is pretty much equal to Siri in capability today, but when they add in DeepMind tech it will be 100x more useful and far more impressive.

The question is how much information about ourselves do we want to give to the machines (companies running the machines)? I think Apple's biggest hurdle to AI is privacy. The information we get back is only as good as the information we give. If they want to be know as the privacy company how far can they take AI? I think they're going to have to come up with a compromise or give us the choice (opt in). I think IBM is way ahead of the others. Google is trying to figure out how to deliver unprompted information that is useful and not annoying. Apples approach, now, seems to be "do what I tell you" - which honestly I think is the best a computer will ever be able to do. AI knowing us and feeding us useful information is difficult. How well can a computer learn about our needs and desires? I'd also like to point out the AI in the new Apple TV - I feel it is at an equal level to anything Google is doing.
 
Max(IT), Schadenfreude is different than caring and voicing concern. It's hard to convey in text, but there is no sane reason to come on a Mac forum and "cheerlead" stumbles. If I say "Good, maybe this will wake Apple up!" is meant like, me as a father telling my children that a poor grade will "wake them up" so they study a little bit more next time. If I didn't care, I wouldn't say anything. By voicing intelligent concerns we can, perhaps, get more people to raise them. The more people that raise concern, the more Apple needs to pay attention. The more attention Apple pays toward their base, the better the products. This very scenario has played out in the Microsoft eco-system in the last few years. They have open sourced a lot of software and have become very developer friendly again.
 
Falling sales should encourage Apple to come up out with more exciting product additionssooner rather than later.... Which is a positive thing. Your looking at the negative - glass is half empty side.
I'm not a shareholder, so I don't really care about Apple sales.
But as an Apple user I think is just unreasonable to celebrate their "fall". And you know it perfectly well like me. You know what I'm referring.
Someone is just showing the reason of his presence here.

I'm quite sure Apple are developing new exciting products nonetheless, and they don't need a crash and burn to do that.
 
This particular sub thread / conversation was related to Innovation.

Innovation has no relationship to sales / or releasing said product to market.


no - this conversation is about stock value and this sub thread, that I brought up, concerned the perceived lack of innovation at Apple (and its affect on their sales). My query was - show me google's innovation (that would warrant a 30 EPS) and lead to new lines of business.
 
If wanting something to be well-designed and functional again is considered nostalgic.
Nostalgia is to ignore the design flaws in the past as well as the design qualities in the present.
Kinda goes to show you the decline of quality over at Apple.
It never goes in only one direction. It's always a mixed bag, some things are getting better others worse. Overall there is no reason to outright condemn the design and functionality of current iOS and OS X versions. The fun level is a little down without skeuomorphism.
I bet you think the current music app is perfect and the best version of it because Apple says it is.
That's a bet you lose.
People like you are part of the reason why Apple gets away with releasing half-assed and poorly thought-out products and services. Because you continue to believe that no matter what they release, there's no wrong that they can do.
If you had bet on it, you would've lost again. In a world full of **** Apple just makes the least awful products. That's it. They still make plenty mistakes.
 
Max(IT), Schadenfreude is different than caring and voicing concern. It's hard to convey in text, but there is no sane reason to come on a Mac forum and "cheerlead" stumbles. If I say "Good, maybe this will wake Apple up!" is meant like, me as a father telling my children that a poor grade will "wake them up" so they study a little bit more next time. If I didn't care, I wouldn't say anything. By voicing intelligent concerns we can, perhaps, get more people to raise them. The more people that raise concern, the more Apple needs to pay attention. The more attention Apple pays toward their base, the better the products. This very scenario has played out in the Microsoft eco-system in the last few years. They have open sourced a lot of software and have become very developer friendly again.
I don't have doubts about YOUR intentions in voicing concerns.
But believe me, I know perfectly well others and the reason of their presence here...

BTW Apple isn't Microsoft, and I mean philosophically.
 
Could you show me the magic numbers of phone sales from Google ?
Could you show me the magic numbers of computer sales from Google ?

Yes....almost inexistent ....

Real innovation: a lot of gimmicks, good as a bait for mining more users data.

But I really enjoy the way you are cheering the "Apple fall". Finally you showed your true nature here.
I really can't understand how an "Apple user" could welcome an Apple decline.
Unless....


In a parallel dimension maybe.
Worldwide the iPhone still is the most sold high end model, BY FAR.
Their OS is the most popular in the world
Their apps are the most widely used on all platforms
They have a lot going for them like Google Glass,self driving cars,cardboard etc
Alphabet has more than just Google under its belt
Computers are a minuscule part of Apple's profits.Their source of profits is primarily the iPhone.Alphabet has innovation going on in diversified areas while Apple is standing still and focusing just on one area and comparably their services are a disaster (The recent Apple Music search fiasco comes to mind)

Oh and since you keep stating I am a hater,I am just being realistic here.Apple's phone sales are on a decline from next quarter and their profit margins are also gonna take a hit while Alphabet measures favourably in comparison

BTW this is a pic of my Apple Gear.I also own a Mac Mini in addition not in this pic

f51c3d5f006c3147072b3e53d34cc4de.jpg


But yeah i am celebrating right?
 
Oh please. Check history before speaking nonsense. This is the same argument presented when Jobs introduced the iPhone. Keynote after keynote he was focusing on the iPhone, then the iPad came around and he was accused of turning focus away from the pros. Same shiz, just different CEO.


Maybe you should wake up and check out the trend line of Apple stock over the last year. The numbers don't lie...
 
"typing text into a box and getting results" is not AI. IBM is the AI king - not google. Google is the indexing King which they always have been. Where is their next product? Glass - no. Self driving cars - everyone is working on that now - no winner yet and for a long time. google docs - not up to Microsoft's level. I'm not saying they're not a great company - they are - but I feel wall St is highly undervaluing Apple. Google is an advertising agency - they have no other revenue sources. Apple's non iPhone business is growing quite nicely. And they're investing heavily in it. They are not sitting around on their laurels as Wall St. would have us believe. Like I said, their non iPhone business is the size of google.

As far as software bugs are concerned - everyone has that. I also feel Apple is addressing the issue aggressively with the beta program they've introduced.

I don't know the future but the values wall St is giving out are not based in reality at all. I think they're finally waking up to Amazon - their PE ratio has typically been 900 - now its down to 440 - still WAY to large.
I don't know where to start. Google is most definitely an AI company and the world's most advanced AI company at present. IBM is at best a distant second or third depending on what Palantir is really up to, same with Amazon and Microsoft. However, none of them operate at the scale Google operates.

Before you respond, I think it would be wise that you educate yourself on AI, Machine learning, and Algorithmic mining/munging. Look into items like TensorFlow, BigQuery, Dataflow and others. Educate yourself on "why" adwords is so dominant... you will find AI. Amazon powers a ton of the web via AWS... they are not sitting on their hands either. Azure from Microsoft and ConceptInsights from IBM are neat, but they don't hold a candle to Google's internal resources and, more importantly, it's talent pool.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Demo Kit
Their OS is the most popular in the world
still no money by Android.
Their apps are the most widely used on all platforms
still no money by the apps (just from YOUR data mined while you use their apps)
They have a lot going for them like Google Glass,self driving cars,cardboard etc
still a lot of gimmicks with very low profits (if any)
Alphabet has more than just Google under its belt
Who cares ? Im' not an investor.

Computers are a minuscule part of Apple's profits
No, they are not.
Apple's profits in macs and related services are HUGE.

Oh and since you keep stating I am a hater,I am just being realistic here.Apple's phone sales are on a decline from next quarter and their profit margins are also gonna take a hit while Alphabet measures favourably in comparison

Oh and this is a pic of my Apple Gear.I also own a Mac Mini in addition not in this pic

f51c3d5f006c3147072b3e53d34cc4de.jpg


But yeah i am celebrating right?

I don't care about what you own or not.
I didn't write your name.
You are celebrating, that's for sure.
 
no - this conversation is about stock value and this sub thread, that I brought up, concerned the perceived lack of innovation at Apple (and its affect on their sales). My query was - show me google's innovation (that would warrant a 30 EPS) and lead to new lines of business.

Sub Topic / Conversion -
- I was referring to *your* question of "what has google innovated",
- which I responded - answering to your question regarding "Google Innovation"
- You then responded to that answer - on the topic of Innovation - "show me a new product line out of Google that makes money."
- I responded - "Innovation has no relationship to sales".

See?

A loss making company can be valued high because it is judged to have a good future ahead of it, and worthy of investment now for future gain.

It really doesn't matter what new products Google are making money on at this moment in time. So your line:
"show me a new product line out of Google that makes money." is mute. Valuation isn't only - in the now - it's also the potential future value.
 
Last edited:
Ridiculous, just ridiculous.

Advertising via the only source of income to Google, and represents more than 90% of their revenue, compared to less than 70% of the iPhone.

Regurgitating BS you read from Google fanboys leads to this.

Might want to tone down your spicy attitude and read the post.

The advertising market isn't saturated. It's a stable source of revenue because it's not slowing down in growth. Being really dependent on it is not as dangerous right now.

The fact that Apple is relying so much on the iPhone for revenue and that the smartphone market is saturated is the concerning part that may let Apple fall off a cliff.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SirCheese
Maybe you should wake up and check out the trend line of Apple stock over the last year. The numbers don't lie...
Yeah, and thank you very very very much for just admitting that you haven't been in tune with AAPL's standings when Jobs was on board. Stocks dropped nearly every keynote and rollercoaster'd throughout the calendar years. In fact, the highest the stock has been was when Cook was on board. You know, when the big 7 for 1 stock split happened? You're the one that's asleep at the wheel. :p
 
The thing I really don't get is how Apple is trying to pose the iPad Pro as a monster 4K video editing machine, yet there's no way to actually get 4K content on it. WiFi isn't fast enough to move Raw DV 4K content over.

The iPad Pro needs something akin to Thunderbolt to be used for video editing in the way Apple wants to imply it can be.

Disclaimer: My wife has an iPad Pro for artwork and we both love it. I just can't imagine anyone editing 4K video on it. It'd be a huge pain just to get the video on it, not to mention storage.

SO you're saying there's no way to plug that lightning cable it comes with, into your PC or mac, and then move the 4k files over to it via something like iTunes content management that many other apps support for this very reason?
 
Yeah, and thank you very very very much for just admitting that you haven't been in tune with AAPL's standings when Jobs was on board. Stocks dropped nearly every keynote and rollercoaster'd throughout the calendar years. In fact, the highest the stock has been was when Cook was on

The stock continued to rise after Jobs' death due to momentum created by the products introduced prior to his death and new products already in the pipeline.

When Jobs' new product pipeline dried up, Timmy was on his own and the crowning achievements of his efforts to date seem to be updating the iPhone line with new form factors and the Apple Watch. Pretty darn impressive!

Apple (orange) versus Google (blue)

image.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Who cares ? Im' not an investor.

You care a great deal or you wouldn't keep posting in this thread arguing back and forth.

You and others are very myopic when it comes to what Google does. Their research and projects extend far past consumer-based products and services. And in my opinion, what they do is not only impressive but extremely forward thinking. They aren't afraid to fail. We should want as many companies as possible to be ambitious. You can argue that Apple really cares about its customers. I could argue that Google, with some of its research cares about humanity and the planet. I'm sure you'll find a way to make your pot shot jokes and steer this back into a data mining discussion - but that would only prove you have little to no idea what else Google is doing.
 
Nostalgia is to ignore the design flaws in the past as well as the design qualities in the present.
It never goes in only one direction. It's always a mixed bag, some things are getting better others worse. Overall there is no reason to outright condemn the design and functionality of current iOS and OS X versions. The fun level is a little down without skeuomorphism.
That's a bet you lose.
If you had bet on it, you would've lost again. In a world full of **** Apple just makes the least awful products. That's it. They still make plenty mistakes.
When it comes to UI design, I'd say it's at least 10x more flawed under Jony Ive (an unqualified and amateur software designer) as opposed to how it was under Scott Forstall (a qualified software professional). I thought Apple prided themselves over being perfectionists and extremely detail-oriented. I see none of that anymore.

By saying that Apple makes the least awful products also speaks volumes. It used to be that Apple products both hardware and software were of the highest quality and the best overall user experience. Now they're just the lesser of large number of evil and the user experience went from being enjoyable and fun to just barely tolerable.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.