Graphics Cards in New Mac Pro May Be User Replaceable

[217833]

How can a PRO machine NOT have internal user expansion?

Because it has external user expansion, which brings a lot of new possibilities.

Now, you don't have to open the Mac Pro, uninstall cards if you want to use them with another computer. You can simply unplug the external extension chassis, and even use it with your MBP while on the go. And the new cylinder Mac Pro is also so small than you can carry it on a simple backpack (try to do that with the old cheese grater Mac Pro.

Apple is very clear about that. They believe the new Mac Pro is the future of Desktop computer. And I bet they're right.

And for the very demanding users (like me), we still have to rely on external drive enclosure, external card chassis, etc... because we can't fit everything in a Mac Pro tower, regardless how tall it would be. (I currently have over 12 hard-drive (all 2, 3 and 4TB) and they won't all fit in my current 8 core Mac Pro from 2010). So, I will still use my Drobo and NAS anyway... The good point now is that I can just carry on my drive enclosure and use it with my MBP when I'm away; something I couldn't easily do before when the drives where mounted in the Mac Pro.

To me, the new Mac Pro is just great size and specs. I'm not a big fan of the cylinder shape and I could have work with a square shape (such the new Airport Extreme). It would have been easier to mount it on a rack or so.

If only they would have a 12-core version with 64 to 128 GB RAM and 10 to 16TB SSD, then I would be good and more than happy... But until then, we will still have to use some expansion chassis such the new Magma Roben-3:
http://www.magma.com/roben

 

[milo]

The story doesn't mention, but Apple's website says the flash SSD is user accessible.

they don't account for the case being welded shut.

?

One person sees a bunch of stuff they don't get.

Another sees a bunch of stuff they don't want.

Less is not always less. And more is sometimes less.

Very well put.

The people who post this image aren't actually the target market for the MacPro. If you were, you would already own the old MacPro with many of the peripherals you show in the right side.

Exactly. Most of the things on the right side already require being external on the current MP. Honestly, every time someone posts that picture it screams to the world that they have never used a MP and never will.

 

[MacVidCards]

Jeez Louise !! This isn't news.

It somehow is a front page news story, showing how starved MR is to get anything nonmobile here.

I want everyone to sit back and think for a moment.

The pix CLEARLY show the PCIE SSD as an included component of one GPU. Obviously Apple will be doing an "upgrade/bump" when they solder on the parts for 2nd one.

Who here really believes that companies who could barely be bothered to write an EFI rom are going to design PCBs that include Apple's TB2 AND PCIE SSD circuitry?

What happens when TB3 comes out? What happens when they switch PCIE SSD components?

Did no one else think about that PCIE SSD? It isn't glued on and using wireless to talk to CPU. It's wired THROUGH the GPU card.

"French news site announces that going outside while it is raining will cause you to become wet"

There is some useful news. And just as surprising.

We have known this from first photos.

 

[LethalWolfe]

For all of you who want replaceable graphic cards I have a question: What do you do with your Mac Pro and why are these cards limiting what you can do?

Editing, color grading (Resolve) and occasional AE work. The stock GTX120 that came w/my '09 tower isn't so fast these days so I swapped it out w/a budget-minded GTX660Ti. Big improvement and helps keep a 4 year old machine useful. When I'm buying a new machine it's not just about what my needs are today but I think my needs will be 2-4 years down the road.

 

[spaz8]

Replaceable, thats nice, with what?

Am I missing something. Are the D300, D500 and D700 not the only GPU's in the world that actually fit into the nMP case?

I'm all for replacing the GPU, I generally have put the best gaming GPU available for OSX in my computer every 2 years for the last decade.

The only upgrade path I see is if when the nMP 7,1 comes out in the summer of 2015 they allow us to buy and install the GPU's that come with those - fingers crossed. It would be nice if Nvidia made a card that fit in the nMP but I doubt thats in less than 6 months from now.

 

[archimonster]

they don't account for the case being welded shut.

Why would you buy one of these and then weld the case shut?

 

[seek3r]

The people who post this image aren't actually the target market for the MacPro. If you were, you would already own the old MacPro with many of the peripherals you show in the right side. So, the new MacPro actually reduces the space the equipment takes up. I know that's true in my case.

Even if you own a lot of those peripherals for your current machine absolutely none of them are in thunderbolt form because no mac pro has it and because of intel's moronic restriction of TB needing to also carry a DP signal there's no expansion cards to add it.

 

[laurim]

Even if you own a lot of those peripherals for your current machine absolutely none of them are in thunderbolt form because no mac pro has it and because of intel's moronic restriction of TB needing to also carry a DP signal there's no expansion cards to add it.

Not seeing your point. The attempted joke in the graphic was that the new MacPro creates a messier environment. My contention is that it's really the same or better. I can use all my current peripherals with the non-thunderbolt ports and buy thunderbolt items along the way. Already have my eye on a few. Really don't see the big deal.

 

[Tech198]

I had a feeling Apple would do this...... Why would they skimp "Pro" users ??

They did this deliberately , and covered it up..

If they really wanted it to be non-replaceable, they would have made it that way, not a simple socketed board...

Making it cheaper to replace aside, Apple obviously knew what they were doing.

Besides, the "these are Pro users, they can afford repair costs too".. So, the making it a daughter card just because its keep repair costs down, i don't really fly right.

However, its still good that Apple did this... I wouldn't expect anything less.

 

[squeeks]

they should have given the second graphics card PCIe flash port as well for a second hard rive...

 

[seek3r]

Not seeing your point. The attempted joke in the graphic was that the new MacPro creates a messier environment. My contention is that it's really the same or better. I can use all my current peripherals with the non-thunderbolt ports and buy thunderbolt items along the way. Already have my eye on a few. Really don't see the big deal.

Guess it depends on what you do with it. I would need an external optical drive and an external drive array at least to replace what's locally in my pro. My NAS is obviously unaffected but it's bulk storage, not local scratch and workspace. That *is* more clutter and more cost and it's irritating,a dn to get simillar speeds it would have to be TB on the array. It may not be quite the extreme as the picture, but it's definitely a reality for a lot of us with MPs. I feel like it seems everyone assumes MP users are only video editors, who already use lots of external arrays, but some of us do actually need workstations for other things...

 

[blackcrayon]

Jeez Louise !! This isn't news.

It somehow is a front page news story, showing how starved MR is to get anything nonmobile here.

I want everyone to sit back and think for a moment.

The pix CLEARLY show the PCIE SSD as an included component of one GPU. Obviously Apple will be doing an "upgrade/bump" when they solder on the parts for 2nd one.

Who here really believes that companies who could barely be bothered to write an EFI rom are going to design PCBs that include Apple's TB2 AND PCIE SSD circuitry?

What happens when TB3 comes out? What happens when they switch PCIE SSD components?

Not sure I follow. Are you saying the internal GPUs are connected via Thunderbolt? I believe they're connected directly to PCIe 3.0. You have a point about the SSD using one of the video cards, but it's also not using the other one

 

[Frost7]

It would be cool to have a "gamer" card for the new Mac Pro. I can't find a powerful, beautiful and silent machine for PC gaming :/

Well, if gaming is what you're after and you want Apple-level build quality and AppleCare-level support, might go with a Falcon NW Tiki. I did and I've been loving it.

 

[pertusis1]

Jeez Louise !! This isn't news.

It somehow is a front page news story, showing how starved MR is to get anything nonmobile here.

I want everyone to sit back and think for a moment.

The pix CLEARLY show the PCIE SSD as an included component of one GPU. Obviously Apple will be doing an "upgrade/bump" when they solder on the parts for 2nd one.

Who here really believes that companies who could barely be bothered to write an EFI rom are going to design PCBs that include Apple's TB2 AND PCIE SSD circuitry?

What happens when TB3 comes out? What happens when they switch PCIE SSD components?

Did no one else think about that PCIE SSD? It isn't glued on and using wireless to talk to CPU. It's wired THROUGH the GPU card.

"French news site announces that going outside while it is raining will cause you to become wet"

There is some useful news. And just as surprising.

We have known this from first photos.

Well, when I saw this title on the news feed, I flipped through the existing quotes to see how long it would take MVC to respond.

MVC, clearly you are unhappy about the latest upgrade. Unless it is totally un-upgradeable, perhaps it will be a new business opportunity for you. Who knows - you may be able to make lemonade from lemons yet.

For what it's worth, I have a 5,1 with a 5770 and will be looking you up before long to upgrade the graphics. Cheers.

 

[Nahaz]

It won't be user upgradable. They are designed to be Tech serviceable and nothing more.

Apple's idea of user upgradable is to buy the next generation model. Upgradable just isn't in the ethos of Apple.

 

[ssgbryan]

Not seeing your point. The attempted joke in the graphic was that the new MacPro creates a messier environment. My contention is that it's really the same or better. I can use all my current peripherals with the non-thunderbolt ports and buy thunderbolt items along the way. Already have my eye on a few. Really don't see the big deal.

It isn't a joke. It's all about the TCO. Before we got the price on the nMP, I started to price out what it would cost me to move from my current MP to the new one:

4 3.5 internal hard drives (external TB case = $600).
2 2.5 ssds (yet another external TB case = $300)
1 external dock for additional connections ($300) I need more than 4 USB ports. (External 4 bay Raid, 4 additional external hard drives, Scanner, iPhone, iPad, thumb drive, camera, tablet, mouse & keyboard - the Apple version of the last 2 have been used, judged and found lacking)

So $1200 (minimum) + 3,999 (bare bones 6 core) = $5200
Vs.
$5400 for a 16 core Dell that can take a lot more than 64Gb of ram, and doesn't require me to spend 4 figures on external devices of questionable quality.

Since my entire workflow CPU based vs GPU based, and according to the software program managers, isn't moving to OpenCL anytime soon, it is looking like my next box will be a Dell.

 

[LillDrutten]

One person sees a bunch of stuff they don't get.

Another sees a bunch of stuff they don't want.

Less is not always less. And more is sometimes less.

Yes, and for them there is a mini. Now there is nothing for the ones that want it all.

 

[Terrin]

What about Thunderbolt graphics cards? Would that be possible? That would mean that any computer with Thunderbolt could use the graphics card, regardless of platform, and it would make a lot more sense than manufacturing a card specifically for just ONE computer.

Yes, it would work. More realistic as well.

 

[LillDrutten]

Yes, it would work. More realistic as well.

Well. Thunderbold have 4 pcie lanes. Internal pcie up to 32 lanes. And high end graphics can use 2 pcie connectors. Thats 64 lanes. Internal graphics peek performance is there for 16 times the maximum of a thunderbolt. With Moores law with 67 percent performance increase it is about 7 years. So a 2013 thunderbolt graphics throughput is about a 2006 internal throughput. But in reality it not that bad since the graphic is smarter now than 2006. But graphics and other highend IO on thunderbolt is a joke for stationary computers.

 

[H2SO4]

Because it has external user expansion, which brings a lot of new possibilities.

Having internal expansion does not preclude the use of external expansion. In fact having both 'brings a lot of new possibilities'.

 

[goMac]

Well. Thunderbold have 4 pcie lanes. Internal pcie up to 32 lanes. And high end graphics can use 2 pcie connectors. Thats 64 lanes. Internal graphics peek performance is there for 16 times the maximum of a thunderbolt. With Moores law with 67 percent performance increase it is about 7 years. So a 2013 thunderbolt graphics throughput is about a 2006 internal throughput. But in reality it not that bad since the graphic is smarter now than 2006. But graphics and other highend IO on thunderbolt is a joke for stationary computers.

During the Mac Pro presentation they said it supports channel bonding. That means, if I understand it right, you could dedicate more than one Thunderbolt port to a GPU.

With two TB 2.0 ports bonded, you're in a much better place for an external GPU.

 

[The Captain]

Yeah, the last Pro was the same, but how long did it take for a 3rd party to release an "updated" graphics card....? So what if it's replaceable if it takes 4 years to get a new card for the Pro that was out 3 years ago for a PC??

[shrug] If that happens, I guess you'd still get a new graphics card 3 years before apple probably updates the machine again anyway.

 

[tralfaz]

Oh come on get a grip

Why would any company waste the effort to build third party graphics cards. I realize they can overcharge greatly for "work station" class graphics cards, but it can't possibly make any sense for a third party to do this. Considering the amount reverse engineering required, and the need to produce both special designed left slot, and a right slot card. This for a fraction of a niche install base, of a niche market. Add to that it would most likely require the cards be sold in pairs, pushing the cost near the price of a whole new machine.

While I doubt Apple will even offer after sale upgrade/replacement cards for sale, how can anyone expect to make any money on such a scheme. Perhaps if Mac Pros sell in the millions, maybe. But sales in the thousands is a whole lot more likely.

 

[gmcalpin]

Meant to say both. I edited the post. I expect both will have their turn in the Mac Pros. Apple likes to bounce back and forth.

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, you're probably right about that.

 

[booksacool1]

the same thing was said with the pseudo-MXM cards that shipped in iMacs a few years ago. never happened.

being a proprietary format, expect to be stuck with what it came with unless you score an upgrade off ebay or direct from Apple. slight chance, some heinously overpriced upgrade... my memory recalls the $500 premium they wanted for Radeon X800 cards on G5 when the PC counterparts were selling for $150....

apple has made it clear user upgradability/expansion is nowhere near a priority. expect to be locked into what your machine came with, especially with 1st revision hardware.

A mate of mine got sucked into this. This guy likes to play a few pc games. He bought a high-end iMac because of the stunning LCD display (at the time). A rep at the local department store sold it to him with the promise that the graphics card would be upgradable. I told him that this was unlikely.

Fast forward a few years... no high-end graphics cards. Only ones available are old & used and have a HUGE premium.

When he upgrades he's not going to be able to keep that great display. What a waste

The lesson is that independent graphics cards are for use by Apple and Apple alone. They do not care about upgradability and would rather have you trash your machine than risk loosing a sale.