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'Green Bubbles and Blue Bubbles Want to Be Together' Says Samsung Ad Pushing Apple to Adopt RCS
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RCS is tied to the carriers (by design) so is a step backwards from he independence of iMessage, WhatsApp, FB chatl etc. Imagine if instagram counted against your messaging limit of your carrier plan!
Also the spec is deliberately minimal so, for example, Google can (and has) its own proprietary extensions that defeat the point of a “standard” — really it uses RCS as a beard for their own proprietary equivalent of iMessage, though worse for the reasons above.
Those are the user-facing reasons. There are many technical problems you can easily look up, e.g. the lack of security standards (unless you use a proprietary extension like google’s).
It is a Google standard, who have hijacked a name to obscure this fact. Google has its own upgrade path completely separate from the GSMA, who have not substantially changed anything for 5 years. There are zero APIs published for this service on developers.google.com. It is completely closed source, using the UP that Google created and gave to the GSMA as the basis.
These base facts are easily verified with a five minute Google search. Try starting by skipping the Wikipedia page, as it’s unrelated to Google RCS.
If Google is spending copious amounts of advertising money to convince you to do a thing, probably not a thing you want to be doing.
HTML was invented at CERN, and the first popular browser was NCSA Mosaic, released 2 years before Explorer. The whole purpose of HTML was not to be dependent on one operating system or device. I don't think Micosoft had quite the impact that your post implies.
Still, I am not itching to get RCS on the iPhone. If people want privacy then they can used WhatsApp* etc. I can't say in my years of using iPhone I have missed RCS.
*Unless you're in the UK and the government passes dodgy legislation to prevent E2E, as it is trying to do.
The only frustration I have is sending full res photos and vidoes to family. Otherwise texting functions just fine. That could easily be solved by updating SMS, though, instead of implementing a whole new standard that messes everything up or allows Google access to all my data that they're not already getting.
Most people just use WhatsApp or eqivilent anyway don't they? I only use iMessage with my wife and parents really, all my friends use WhatsApp regardless of whether we use iPhones or not. Its cross-platform so is used without really thinking.
As of today, yes, it is functionally a Google thing because the network operators gave up on it. It’s not supposed to be. If Apple had cooperated it wouldn’t be. But as usual if left to the network cartels they will do nothing unless they can price gouge for it.
Verizon, AT&T, and T-Mobile kill their cross-carrier RCS messaging plans
Carriers reveal they’ve wasted the last 18 months pretending to do an RCS rollout.
arstechnica.com
I don’t think that most people here are against better messaging between platforms, but there is some trolling on both sides going on.There are two objections, at least as far as I go.
One, is potentially allowing Google, it’s data scraping, and ad serving on iMessage. No thanks. Second, as has been mentioned, RCS just isn’t ready for prime time yet, and even Google has mentioned it.
One, is potentially allowing Google, it’s data scraping, and ad serving on iMessage. No thanks. Second, as has been mentioned, RCS just isn’t ready for prime time yet, and even Google has mentioned it.
I don’t really see why Apple should have cooperated on it. It’s a standard that, given usual lag times, was designed more for feature phones and early Symbian smartphones than it was for the new era of smartphones. It would have been looking long in the tooth as a chat standard even in 2011 when Apple launched iMessage. Effectively, it was a desperate last attempt to control messaging by the carriers in the face of things like BlackBerry Messenger and smartphone apps.As of today, yes, it is functionally a Google thing because the network operators gave up on it. It’s not supposed to be. If Apple had cooperated it wouldn’t be. But as usual if left to the network cartels they will do nothing unless they can price gouge for it.
Verizon, AT&T, and T-Mobile kill their cross-carrier RCS messaging plans
Carriers reveal they’ve wasted the last 18 months pretending to do an RCS rollout.
And frankly, over the top approaches worked better for customers because 1) they were cheaper than the price gauging carriers used to do for SMS and 2) they were far more responsive to user feedback than any sort of carrier based standard ever could be. Apple had no incentive to support RCS because it would be capitulating to the carriers, ceding power that 1) they didn’t need to and 2) would have limited Apple’s ability to drive user experience improvements. Besides, ceding to the carriers here would have given them on iOS the same heckler’s veto they have on Android (the same heckler’s veto that definitely contributed to Google killing Hangouts). Apple was right to fight against the carriers here.
As of today, yes, it is functionally a Google thing because the network operators gave up on it. It’s not supposed to be. If Apple had cooperated it wouldn’t be. But as usual if left to the network cartels they will do nothing unless they can price gouge for it.
Verizon, AT&T, and T-Mobile kill their cross-carrier RCS messaging plans
Carriers reveal they’ve wasted the last 18 months pretending to do an RCS rollout.
It has zero to do with Apple and everything to do with the fact that this service is from 2008 and is a zombie spec. Developed prior to that initial release, and most importantly, prior to the smartphone boom - a means to, yes, offer something better than SMS and charge a per send fee… on a flip phone. By the time smartphones were factored in 7 years later, the ship had already sailed and WhatsApp had conquered the world. This is too little, too late, and is a proprietary fork of a proprietary system that’s only licensed to carriers and OEMs by the GSMA.
As such, any time Google or Samsung (who controls WearOS now) mention anything about RCS, they aren’t talking about GSMA anything - they’re talking about a very closed source, proprietary fork - while shoving words like “open” and “standard” down your throat - it’s the opposite of both.
If Apple were to stand up their own RCS service and include all the cobbled-together additional features that still come nowhere near parity to other offerings… it wouldn’t be able to send messages to anyone but Apple users. To then connect to those outside, they’d need to strip those features off, connect to Google Jibe, and send clear text unencrypted to it. So what Google is really asking here is… send me all of your messages, and I get to profit off of server fees and metadata acquisition.
That’s a big no. And it always should remain such. Federate it, or bust.
New Google site begs Apple for mercy in messaging war
Google is tired of losing so badly to iMessage, so it wants Apple to adopt RCS.
arstechnica.com
RCS is dead, Google made sure of that when they forked it into their own proprietary system which would force Apple to give up too much. That's the common misconception, we are not talking about true RCS which the US carriers rejected years ago, but a proprietary RCS that Google forked.
Seeing how much Apple loves to be seen as an altruistic company, they really should just open up iMessage. Having encrypted messaging is important world wide, and I don't know that I trust encrypted from Facebook or Google. They just have to keep all the bells and whistles only on iOS, I'm totally fine with that. Heck I'd also be 100% fine with a $5-10 subscription. They may be forced to open up iMessage anyway in the EU at least.
Seeing how much Apple loves to be seen as an altruistic company, they really should just open up iMessage. Having encrypted messaging is important world wide, and I don't know that I trust encrypted from Facebook or Google. They just have to keep all the bells and whistles only on iOS, I'm totally fine with that. Heck I'd also be 100% fine with a $5-10 subscription. They may be forced to open up iMessage anyway in the EU at least.
I'm totally fine with that. The world has to move on from being middle school kids who care about green bubbles. The real issue is interoperability, encryption, ability to send pictures/videos, etc. If anything in this world of "look I have an Apple device," I'd welcome the green bubble for my texts.
It has zero to do with Apple and everything to do with the fact that this service is from 2008 and is a zombie spec. Developed prior to that initial release, and most importantly, prior to the smartphone boom - a means to, yes, offer something better than SMS and charge a per send fee… on a flip phone. By the time smartphones were factored in 7 years later, the ship had already sailed and WhatsApp had conquered the world. This is too little, too late, and is a proprietary fork of a proprietary system that’s only licensed to carriers and OEMs by the GSMA.
As such, any time Google or Samsung (who controls WearOS now) mention anything about RCS, they aren’t talking about GSMA anything - they’re talking about a very closed source, proprietary fork - while shoving words like “open” and “standard” down your throat - it’s the opposite of both.
If Apple were to stand up their own RCS service and include all the cobbled-together additional features that still come nowhere near parity to other offerings… it wouldn’t be able to send messages to anyone but Apple users. To then connect to those outside, they’d need to strip those features off, connect to Google Jibe, and send clear text unencrypted to it. So what Google is really asking here is… send me all of your messages, and I get to profit off of server fees and metadata acquisition.
That’s a big no. And it always should remain such. Federate it, or bust.
New Google site begs Apple for mercy in messaging war
Google is tired of losing so badly to iMessage, so it wants Apple to adopt RCS.
Very well said. I'm genuinely asking because it seems like the better way for this to work is for Apple to open up iMessage. Could Apple build an iMessage app for Android and still retain control? I would think a $5-10 subscription would be pretty nice for Apple, although on the flip side would loosen their stranglehold walled garden keeping many consumers buying iPhones. Still, I have a feeling that consumers love their iPhones enough where most still would not switch to Android, even if iMessage was available to them.
RCS looks genuinely bad from an interconnected standpoint. It requires the carriers to support it, uses their hubs for routing which means they can tack on 'roaming' if you leave the region that they cover, lots of ugly things like the old SMS days where your kid texted someone in Canada because they had the same 10 digit number and didn't think it was a big deal and you get a $500 bill.
I mean I wouldn't blame apple for 'every time you whine, we wait a year to look at it' but if interconnectivity is so important most people just move out of 'text' and into telegram or whatsapp.
I'm old now, (GenX Represent) and texting is how I keep a hold of my kids at most. I use Discord as a chat area with friends mostly myself, wasn't a fan of Telegram nor Whatsapp. I used to use signal for a while as well so I could 'text' my wife from my work computer, but after covid started we're both working from home so it didn't matter anymore.
My 14 year old has said once or twice that their group chat 'went green bubbles' because someone got a crap phone after breaking their iPhone. In general though, the green vs blue never really comes up in my circles but I've been an Apple user since before Apple was cool, during the 'just sell it for parts' days .
I mean I wouldn't blame apple for 'every time you whine, we wait a year to look at it' but if interconnectivity is so important most people just move out of 'text' and into telegram or whatsapp.
I'm old now, (GenX Represent) and texting is how I keep a hold of my kids at most. I use Discord as a chat area with friends mostly myself, wasn't a fan of Telegram nor Whatsapp. I used to use signal for a while as well so I could 'text' my wife from my work computer, but after covid started we're both working from home so it didn't matter anymore.
My 14 year old has said once or twice that their group chat 'went green bubbles' because someone got a crap phone after breaking their iPhone. In general though, the green vs blue never really comes up in my circles but I've been an Apple user since before Apple was cool, during the 'just sell it for parts' days .
Regulators are corrupt and serve whomever is paying them. Don't think for a minute they represent users.
They certainly could. There was even, supposedly, a point where they offered it to carriers to just include as the default service - but were turned down because it wouldn’t be monetized. While that would certainly be the best option in today’s set of offerings, it would also come with a stigma attached. I would imagine review-bombing would be the norm. I don’t know that there’s really an easy solution here, everyone is going to defend their fiefdom.
So what's Google's problem then?? If iMessage only has relative traction in the US/N.A. market, why doesn't Google concentrate on building an alternative that can compete with Whats App, Telegram, Signal et al (or heaven forbid, why don't they try and buy their way in?) ??
The fact they're not doing any of that and are continuing their low-level harassment of Apple/iMessage suggests to me that either they know they're too far behind the curve and can't catch up to any of those other apps, or they're just too lazy to try. Apple adopting RCS would give them a leg up in the global messaging arena and give them back some relevance they've lost--though I doubt it would make them any more competive as the users of those other apps seem pretty loyal & unlikely to switch.
Well that, and Google still gives the carriers too much of a heckler’s veto and this benefits the carriers (they outsource the infrastructure to Google but still maintain some fingers in messaging), since the #1 seller of Android phones are the carriers. In North America, iPhones are in high enough demand that the carriers have to submit to Apple’s will (and Verizon will pay for continuous advertising of the new iPhone 15 Pro in Times Square), while, aside from Pixel and Samsung flagship models, you’re probably walking into a carrier’s store and just choosing some phone.
Sorry but you’re wrong. If you want that RCS message to be E2EE then it has to go over Google’s servers.
I don't think it was your intention, but I wish everyone would stop saying the solution is Whatsapp or FB messenger or whatever other 3rd party service there is out there. Personally I have hundreds of contacts, roughly guessing I'd say at least 80%-90% are on an iPhone device. As an Android user, getting hundreds of contacts to switch to a 3rd party service would be virtually impossible, especially since a lot of those contacts are business contacts and we really don't interact on a personal level like that.
I agree that RCS as it stands today, more specifically Google's RCS implementation, is awful. The ball is really in Apple's court to decide if they would rather keep their consumers in their walled garden, or sacrifice some profits to universally release a clearly superior messaging service to the world. They can still monetize it very simply by selling a small subscription to an iMessage app, that may even be enough to match whatever customers they might lose and would push them to develop other features to keep customers on board instead.
Honestly, SMS/MMS isn’t THAT bad for that kind of communication, apart from the lack of encryption (and, if encryption is necessary, SMS is obviously the wrong tool for it) and persistence (my employer bought us all work phones so they could save conversations for regulatory purposes, seems it was cheaper than the potential regulatory fines that could occur for conducting business over non-persisted channels). If SMS/MMS truly were that awful, I’d probably be a WhatsApp user and wouldn’t bother with the Messages app. So, while a secure, modern, open standard would be great, honestly SMS/MMS is probably good enough for most people.
Who knows, they seem like they probably don't have a solid direction. Look at all the apps we have had for messaging which Google has shut down, merged, or just not supported well. Gchat/Google Chat, Google+/Hangouts/Messenger, Chat inside Gmail, Google Voice, Allo, Duo, Hangouts Chat, Hangouts Meet, Spaces, Messages/RCS... Did I miss any? Let's also not forget all the other non Google messaging services which confuse consumers like Verizon messages, Samsung messenger, etc etc ad nauseam. Meanwhile Apple has concentrated on iMessage and really made it an incredible platform.