Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Status
Not open for further replies.
thworple said:
In that case I would love to know what happened to other half-dozen or so companies that handed out leaflets outside of their allotted "zone", or the chaps that went around spotting people who had red badges on, and handing out free USB Flash-drives to whoever they found! 😀

Ok, granted, I wasn't there, so I was basing my comments on tech conferences I've attended here in the States. But those people were probably violating their terms of contract as well, and maybe MacExpo had less tolerance for GreenPeace because they had already been forewarned not to use their normal sidewalk tactics at the Convention (especially considering GreenPeace probably received their space pro-bono and thus should be expected to even more scrupulously adhere to the rules).
 
thworple said:
Hmmmm, so what you're saying is that a quiet protest (which as an eye-witness I can say this was!!) about a subject they feel strongly about isn't allowed at certain conventions because of the political orientation of the people in charge.

The whole point of the MacExpo is to show the services that Apple and its Third-Party agents can supply to the public. I don't see what the harm is in advertising what they DON'T offer (ie:- in the opinion of Greenpeace - a sound environmental agenda) at the same time.

I'm not going to side with any particular viewpoint about Apple's "green policy" here, as I simply have not read enough about it to convey an honest and balanced opinion. however I do feel that it is within Greenpeace's right to advertise the issues they feel strongly about in an orderly manner (which as far as I'm concerned they did on Thursday!).

I'm sorry, what part of 'private property' don't you people understand?
 
Some_Big_Spoon said:
I'm a Green Peace supporter, but with Bush in the Whitehouse, don't they have bigger fish to fry?

I agree. Apple is in the spotlight a great deal so they are using this as a method to market themselves.
 
Greenpeace is not green or peaceful

You got to love disruptive, violent behavior from "peace" groups. Sure makes you respect them doesn't it. You can always use paper and pencil if you don't want to use a computer. Oh, wait, harvesting a renewable resource like trees is out. Give me a break.
 
alexf said:
Thank you, Greenpeace. Public awareness is what it's all about. If Apple does not like it, maybe it's time to shape up and actually try to live up to the "environmentally friendly" image that they have been trying to create.

Implicit in this comment is that Apple "didn't like" Greenpeace and tried to shut them down. Why the assumption that Apple was behind this? If this MacExpo is anything like the MacWorlds here in the U.S., then it's not run directly by Apple., so it would've been the decision of whoever was running MacExpo to actually kick Greenpeace out...
 
JobsRules said:
Exactly. There was no violence, no rowdiness. This is how the current mindf*cks work. People hear that a group or activist with views counter to the needs of govenrment and big business and their heads immediately fills with images of extreme millitancy. As I said - they handed out leaflets. That's it.

It's the same when the intelligence services and police stage 'terror raids' on houses where the inhabitants have no connection to terror. People immediately think 'Ahh, they've got those terrorist scum...' When the suspects are released without charge no one asks how zero evidence can possibly lead to an armed raid.

They're playing the 'game' like everyone else. It's about leverage from one group over another and today's parameters are the environment and how we agree to perceive change.

If enough faces on the media can say "there is a consensus amongst scientists" then the easier science 'theory' can become science 'fact' and there we have the the most valuable tool known to man - "A bigger stick to beat people with."

Admit it, greenpeace are playing the 'game'

The problem came to a head when one woman complained that they had placed an apple in her child’s pram and were taking photographs of him without her permission.
Macworld UK
 
Say there was a stand 'Mac Users for Bush' at a show. I might think, 'That's odd' or I might have said, 'Bush is a ********' if one of them gave me a leaflet but I wouldn't try to get them booted out of the show because I don't have a problem with free speech and free debate.

Let's not be naive - Greenpeace were ejected because certain elements didn't like an activist group planting negative images of Apple in the Mac market's heads and so had them removed. It was nothing to do with the leaflets - they were censored. It's fine if you take an authoritarian 'anyone can be censored on private property' stance but don't claim it's because Greenpeace caused any kind of unacceptable incident.
 
bitfactory said:
I'm sorry, what part of 'private property' don't you people understand?


They weren't trespassing or anything like that!!! Its not like they wandered onto someone's back yard and started selling lemonade from a small stand without permission.

They had purchased a small stall there and went about their business handing out leaflets highlighting their concerns at Apple's environmental policy, as well as giving people some tasty Organic Apples (which many, myself included, lapped up 😉 ).

Sure, they wandered away from their stall to the entrance to hand out leaflets, but so did half or dozen or so other stallholders. The fact remains that I haven't heard of anyone else being ejected because of this. And it makes you concerned that they were singled out because of the message they were trying to convey.

I was personally more bothered by the people trying to sell you something you didn't want as soon as you entered the Expo (that and the fact that every time I went to the Google stand they'd run out of sweets! 🙄 )
 
and nobody noticed this?
Macrumors said:
The group had purchased a small both with contract terms to only hand out leaflets within their assigned area and to not take photographs at other stands.

booth! not both! 🙄
 
MacWorld Quote:
The problem came to a head when one woman complained that they had placed an apple in her child’s pram and were taking photographs of him without her permission.


Ok, this I honestly didn't see, and if true, then warrants a serious reprimand of any organisation at Mac Expo!! I hope that the reason they were ejected was something like this, and not just handing out leaflets in the wrong area, like I was led to believe from the thread so far!

I wouldn't like anyone taking photos of my child without permission, and if true then Greenpeace have behaved irresponsibly!
 
built-in batteries

More and more devices come with "non replaceable" batteries, and it's often because this allows for more design flexibility. If your device uses a standard, "off the shelf" rechargeable battery pack, you're limited to certain dimensions for the battery compartment. Newer battery packs can be custom molded into all sorts of odd shapes - and that allows for making thinner or more "shapely" products. However, it also means they'd have to sell MANY more varieties of battery packs if they still made these oddballs "replaceable". Nobody would be able to locate the proper battery when it came time to do a replacement anyway.....

Realistically though, almost any consumer electronics device I've seen has *some* way to open it up. And assuming the internal battery works for at least 2 or 3 years, it's not unreasonable to say "Hey... you still want to keep this device going for another 2-3 years? Ok... go to some extra effort prying it open once and do a battery swap with a custom replacement battery." That's what you're looking at on an iPod. After 5 or 6 years, are you REALLY going to keep using the same product anyway? If so, ok ... you have to hassle with prying it open 2 times in the lifespan of the product then. Doesn't sound horrible to me.


needthephone said:
They do build in obsolescence into the ipod as you can't replace the battery (easily). It does become a disposable item, although a pricey one at that. I do love the ipod (even though I don't own one) but this puts me off to the point where I just can't go through with actually buying one. My experience with rechargeable batteries in mobile phones and lap top isn't good.
 
I have nothing against Greenpeace or the message that Greenpeace is trying to send about the environment. If Greenpeace's presence (or more specifically, Greenpeace volunteers' presence) at other public events is any representation, I am not surprised at their behavior.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/news/index.cfm?newsid=16291&pagtype=allchandate

JobsRules said:
Heck, every trade show I ever go to has girls with their tits half hanging out wondering the halls handing out leaflets nowhere near their particular stand.

Sad to see so many people now happy to have people's free speech stamped all over.

In response to the previous post above, perhaps Greenpeace should think about limiting its volunteers at public events to "really hot" girls dressed "appropriately", I am sure its message would be better received.
 
this solves my problem

benthewraith said:
... the provocative and renowned philosopher Cartman...

This complicates the already thorny dilemma I'd been wrestling with in this thread. Whose words should win my confidence? Whose direction on this issue should I trust? "crap freakboy"? Maybe. Some of his comments make sense, but i'm thinking, if i met him on the street and he was introduced that way, would i stay and listen...or run? Then there's "jelloshotsrule"? He's shown some insight, but you know how you can evaluate comments differently after you've seen a guy throwing up after chugging too much at a frat party? And now there's a third choice, a cartoon character? It turns out, the nine-year-old in the red jacket resolved my dilemma:

"Cartman: Respect My Authority!"

😱
 
nick004 said:
They must be from California, lots of smugg Greenpeace hippies hanging around there.

Apple is from California too though! And were not all hippies over here, for the record.
 
thworple said:
Ok, this I honestly didn't see, and if true, then warrants a serious reprimand of any organisation at Mac Expo!! I hope that the reason they were ejected was something like this, and not just handing out leaflets in the wrong area, like I was led to believe from the thread so far!

I wouldn't like anyone taking photos of my child without permission, and if true then Greenpeace have behaved irresponsibly!

But that could also mean that someone took a photo of a baby with an Apple with consent and that was chinese whispered by an anti-Greenpeace voice to, 'Yeah, y'know, I even saw them putting this apple in a kid's pram and...'

Here are the 'roudy violent millitants' we're talking about.

http://flickr.com/photos/giona/279985114/
 
There's two things going on here...

1) The user who posted about Apple not running MacExpo directly is dead-on. The Expos are of course related to Apple, but are not run by Apple. So decisions made about the day-to-day operations of booths, patrons, etc, are made in-house by whoever is directing that particular show. It's unfortunate that Apple is being thrown under the bus here because they really don't have anything directly to do with it.

2) More importantly, the big problem is the loud minority that has emerged from within Greenpeace (and other similar organizations). There is a growing problem in this country of people taking the "one person can make a difference" idea and translating it into "act inapporpriately and without moral or social constraint, or you wont get noticed." This is GIANT problem. People aren't being held accountable for their actions anymore, especially when their actions are tied to some sort of noble cause.

It's almost is if you can perform some sort of illegal act, but if you say "I did it for Cancer" then you're off the hook, or somehow not at fault anymore. Getting attention for a good cause is wonderful, nobody denies that. But it has to be done the RIGHT way. Intelligently, and within the confines of what's ethical and legal. Otherwise, these groups that are railing against injustice, environmental negligence, or any other cause-du-jour, are just as bad and hypocritical as what they're railing against.

Amen.
 
Whatever....

Shopping malls are private property, rented out in parcels at extremely high prices, so their tenants can run their shops with a perceived better shot at attracting passers-by than if they had a stand-alone store.

If you owned your own shop and some people kept standing out in front of your store without your permission, handing out political flyers, you'd probably run them off, right? In this case, the owners of the shopping mall are providing a similar service to the merchants paying to be there. It's FAR from a "public space".


JobsRules said:
As I said, fewer and fewer spaces where public debate can take place. Shopping malls are the same - 'public spaces' that aren't. Soon streets that have been public for years will start to be be privatised to provide 'better value for taxpayers' and the takeover will continue.

Then where can free debate take place? Some postage-stamp size bit of turf you call home?
 
I wrote this on another site so if you heard it before that is why:

I will start by saying groups like greenpeace serve a useful purpose, which is to challenge the status quo in the hopes of improving things in the world.

However, greenpeace is far from being pure in their own methods. Anyone can point out what is wrong, it take people with true willingness to improve thing to find a solution, not just lobbing gernades into the middle of the table and running.

Notice how they never answer the questions about how to solve the problem they just say stop using chemicals like brominated flame retardants, with no regard that Apple does not make, or innovate PCB (printed circuit boards). Apple does not dictate or madate what is used to keep a PCB from going up in flames as does any company who uses PCB. The PCB industry does and the world wide public safey agency who say that the PCB will not catch fire and burn your house down have this responsibility.

Asked yourself, why hasn't the world's governments band bromited fire retardants when it is well know it is bad, really bad. because the best minds in the world have yet to come up with a cost effective alternative solution that will keep a PCB from catching fire and buring your house down. and still pay $200 for your iPod.

Trust me if greenpeace came up with a green PCB having no impact on the environment the world market would beat their door down to get it. Then they could stop having those poor long hair young kids coming around our neighborhoods asking for money to fight all those big bad companies. But that would be part of the solution instead of being part of the problem.

Part of the reason most companies do not listen to greenpeace is because, when they offer a solution many times they come back years later and say hey that is bad too. Prime example they and other groups told McDonalds in the 70's to stop using paper products to package their burgers, and told them to use styrofoam since it did not require the cutting of trees. Only to come back years later and say styrofoam was hurting the atmophere and they should use paper products. I think they forgot they told them using paper was bad too.

BTW, DELL and HP are trying to make the change not because greenpeace told them stop, because it make business sense. The world is changing and people are tired of seeing all this stuff end up in land fills. In Europe they are running out of space and they do not want to see all the nasty stuff end up in their eco system. Europe has said if you can not recycle it, you have to take it back. Again, greenpeace had nothing to do with this, it about trade and the fact that Europe makes less and less products ever year and importors more. It is a trade barrier disguise as protecting the eco system.

My comment to greenpeace and others is when you are naked in the woods living off the land and not impacting the earth yourself then you have room to critized what the rest of the world is doing. Think about how much greenpeace has impacted the earth getting their message out, all the computers, networks , chemicals, fossil fuel, nuclear engery that was used to just get this message to all of us. They never consider this, becuase they feel it is ok for them to impact the earth as long as they are doing it in the name of conservation.

Full disclosure, I own Apple stock and as well as I have given money to organization like greenpeace and the Sierra club
 
clintob said:
There's two things going on here...

2) More importantly, the big problem is the loud minority that has emerged from within Greenpeace (and other similar organizations). There is a growing problem in this country of people taking the "one person can make a difference" idea and translating it into "act inapporpriately and without moral or social constraint, or you wont get noticed." This is GIANT problem. People aren't being held accountable for their actions anymore, especially when their actions are tied to some sort of noble cause.
Amen.

Yes, they should just just shut-up and vote for corporate-sponsored Republicrats or Converalabour every four or five years and take it.

It's a shame that there is no longer any meaningful democracy.
 
justflie said:
Meh, don't worry about the batteries. Sure, some people have problems, but my 3G ipod is still doing surprisingly well! It may have lost a little bit of charge since I bought it but it still lasts at least 7 hours. Maybe I'm just lucky. Or maybe it knows it needs to behave before the sweet widescreen video ipod comes out. Or else. 😀

Nah, my 3G rocks too. I too am waiting to see what's next. I have a crappy phone and no pda. I'd love some sort of pda pod.
 
justflie said:
Meh, don't worry about the batteries. Sure, some people have problems, but my 3G ipod is still doing surprisingly well!

Mine too, although when I found out a replacement battery was available from Batteries + for around $25, I bought it and replaced it myself very easily. It's not as hard as some might think.

I'm all about apple being green too, but is it not possible that Greenpeace are making an example of apple more because of their high profile than because they are the worst offenders. Greenpeace's campaign wouldn't seem quite so "cool" if they were attacking compaq or gateway etc...
 
JobsRules said:
Yes, they should just just shut-up and vote for corporate-sponsored Republicrats or Converalabour every four or five years and take it.

It's a shame that there is no longer any meaningful democracy.
Yes, and that certainly justifies being a loudmouthed asshat. There are ways you can get a message out without being a douchebag, but that's rapidly becoming a lost art on any part of the political spectrum.

Anyway, I'd be pretty pissed off if a bunch of Greenpeace guys were screwing with my baby kid without even talking to me about it. I don't care if it's as inconspicuous as them putting an apple in the pram and snapping publicity photos. They had damn well better get permission before doing it.
 
Maestro64 said:
In Europe they are running out of space and they do not want to see all the nasty stuff end up in their eco system. Europe has said if you can not recycle it, you have to take it back.

Then goes here:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002920133_ewaste09.html

Anyway, the real problem is the debt-money system that demands ever cheaper throwaway products, evermore cheaplabour, evermore GDP growth regrdless of impact on quality of life, evermore downsizing, evermore sloppy enironmental protections as the globe suffers under continual insolvency.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Grip-Death-...ef=sr_1_1/202-0351376-3343053?ie=UTF8&s=books

We don't have to live in mudhuts, but we DO need to stop throwing away PCs, iPods, mobile phones, etc. as if they're apple cores, no pun intended.
 
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
of goats and men

lmalave said:
Have you ever been to a tech convention? It is *not* a free-for-all where people roam around handing out fliers anywhere on the convention floor. Vendors are expected to stick to their designated booth that they paid for. Conventions make money by charging for floorspace. What kind of leverage would they have to charge for premium or larger floorspace, if vendors could just get the smallest booth possible, but then flood the convention floor with people handing out brochures?

You understand the conference/expo world. In my past life i produced conferences for up to 2000 people and trade shows with the floorspace of a MacWorld Expo. Managing your customers (exhibitors) is not a precise science, but you're always trying to sustain some sense of fairness: A's music can't drown out conversations in B's deal-making suite; the smell of goats in C's exhibit (this is a REAL example, from an otherwise suit-and-tie professional show!) can't keep people from approaching the exhibitors in adjacent booth D; and business is supposed to be confined to the space rented for that purpose--if you're not an exhibitor, you can't walk the floor and snag customers from in front of paying exhibitors' booths, to make deals; if you are an exhibitor, you're supposed to do your biz in the space you're paying for, for the reasons Imalave presented.

In practice, there's a considerable fudge factor, but show management does the best it can, if it wants to preserve the appeal of the show for the majority of the exhibitors and attendees. I wasn't at the Mac show in question so can't speak to the specifics, but these are certainly the principles that apply. I HAVE attended all the MWSF Expos for the past decade and COMDEX until it expired, and i know that exhibitors do roam the floors at those shows, awarding prizes to shoppers wearing designated badges, passing out literature, etc., and I know it IS often hard to converse at booth E due to the cheering/chanting/amplified presentations at booth F. But it's all managed into a mix that seems to work very well for everyone.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.