Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Greenpeace Ejected from MacExpo

Status
Not open for further replies.
JobsRules said:
So all Greenpeace did was hand out leaflets in areas other than their stand? So they didn't smash up the Apple stand or invade Adobe chanting and shouting.

They handed out leaflets and were ejected because no one's ever allowed to talk about the downsides of our throwaway consumer-trinket technojunk culture without being told to shut up.

Heck, every trade show I ever go to has girls with their tits half hanging out wondering the halls handing out leaflets nowhere near their particular stand.

Sad to see so many people now happy to have people's free speech stamped all over. No wonder Bush can dismantle the Bill of Rights and his lapdog Blair can swiftly remove centruries-old liberties with barely a whisper...
Click to expand...

You're joking, right?

(A) It was in their contract that they had to stay in their booth. It was up to them... if they didn't like the contract, they could have stayed at home, or on their fishing-boat-ramming ships. They violated something THEY AGREED TO and were kicked out for it. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

(B) It's a private trade show. A PRIVATE trade show. If the organizers of it dictate that you have to chant a seven-paragraph-"all hail Apple" chant and hop on one foot to get in the doors... then that's what you have to do to get in. If the rules are unfair, no one goes, they lose money. This isn't a government-organized event. Freedom of speech has nothing to do with it. Now, if Apple went after them for distributing fliers on the public streets, or for saying any of this on their website or any other PUBLIC arena, that would indeed be infringement of freedom of speech, so long as what Greenpace was saying wasn't false or defamatory.

People don't understand what freedoms truly are. It doesn't mean you get to say and do whatever you want wherever you want - that's anarchy, and anarchy is bad... unless you're the biggest, strongest and most brutal. Freedom of speech really means you can't be jailed or otherwise punished by the government for saying what you want in a pulic arena.

I'm done. Continue your whining.
 
kingtj said:
Shopping malls are private property, rented out in parcels at extremely high prices, so their tenants can run their shops with a perceived better shot at attracting passers-by than if they had a stand-alone store.

If you owned your own shop and some people kept standing out in front of your store without your permission, handing out political flyers, you'd probably run them off, right? In this case, the owners of the shopping mall are providing a similar service to the merchants paying to be there. It's FAR from a "public space".
Click to expand...

You miss my point. My local town centre mall is a huge sprawling beast that was built on top of what used to be public streets. There are now moves to privatise publicaly owned shopping areas so you really do get severe erosion of genuine public spaces.
 
One more thing...

thworple said:
Sure, they wandered away from their stall to the entrance to hand out leaflets, but so did half or dozen or so other stallholders. The fact remains that I haven't heard of anyone else being ejected because of this. And it makes you concerned that they were singled out because of the message they were trying to convey.
Click to expand...

Okay... I'm not quite done, you can get back to your whining in a moment.

See that area emphasized above? That's the exact thing that causes all our bickering in but the U.S. and the U.K.. The idea that somehow it's okay to violate contracts, laws or even social norms just because you agree with the reason for breaking said rules. If you have a problem with the rules, get them changed, until you do, obey them. There's a reason it's called "civilization" - we all have to be civil for it to work.

Okay. Now I'm really done.
 
I am in favor of Greenpeace's "Green My Apple" campaign. For all of Steve Jobs' zen-attitude, vegetarianism, often-proclaimed "do the right thing" stance, and Apple's financial liquidity, there's no reason why other manufacturers can make the change and Apple isn't willing to move in the right direction with their products.

And, as others have pointed out, if other vendors' straying from their booths is tolerated, and Greenpeace is singled out because their message is an uncomfortable truth that could eat away at Apple's image of being the perfect computer company, then that's an outrage. If Greenpeace gets reprimanded, so should every other vendor who strays from their booth.
 
Greenpeace - who!

I know the planet is doomed and that we are all going to drown under super high sea levels BUT I just can't see the point in groups like Greenpeace.

I mean, they bang on about this and that, looking for big companies to target. It just stinks... Have you seen that raft (boat) they sail around in - it is hardly a pin-up for ecological travel.

Greenpeace you are a product of the 20th Century, turning to ever more desperate methods to get your message out. Take your tree hugging ideology and put it to good use somewhere else - fight Aids, cure cancer, help the disabled etc.

Apple and it's partners or competitors crack on! Do your thing, if you can become 'green', go for it. If not, we're all doomed anyway!

AA
 
Also people fail to point out that we don't know the other company's contracts. Someone said that other booths had free range and were giving out things all around. For all we know they negotiated for a larger handout space. If companies like LaCie and Adobe threatened to pull from the show unless they could hand out things all over the expo I'm sure MacExpo would have allowed it. If did the same, MacExpo wouldn't have any problems with not giving them a booth. They could have easily handed out fliers across the street.
 
true777 said:
For all of Steve Jobs' zen-attitude, vegetarianism, often-proclaimed "do the right thing" stance, and Apple's financial liquidity, there's no reason why other manufacturers can make the change and Apple isn't willing to move in the right direction with their products.
Click to expand...

can anyone--maybe you, true777, since i assume you're making the statement above based on personal knowledge--post pics showing the packaging for a Dell or Gateway or HP notebook computer vs apple's packaging for a comparable product? What about iPod packaging vs that for other MP3 players?

until we know the differences, it's hard to know where to stand on this issue, and impossible to conclude "there's no reason why other manufacturers can make the hange and apple isn't willing..."
 
JobsRules said:
Yes, they should just just shut-up and vote for corporate-sponsored Republicrats or Converalabour every four or five years and take it.

It's a shame that there is no longer any meaningful democracy.
Click to expand...

Whoa... apparently you have a little trouble reading, or at least understanding the context of an argument. I said nothing about meaningful democracy, "shutting up and taking it", or anything of the sort. In fact, if you read it again, what I said is that democracry is what's at stake here. Sure, we're getting into hyperbole now, but the fact is that democracry does NOT mean breaking the rules for your personal gain or the gain of your cause. Democracy is about creating a reasoned, rational voice, that is backed by a majority of the people. You can create that majority any way you like, but it has to remain within the confines of what's ethical and legal, or you've effectively destroyed everything that democracy stands for. Law, reason, and order are the foundation of democracy.

Durendal said:
Yes, and that certainly justifies being a loudmouthed asshat. There are ways you can get a message out without being a douchebag, but that's rapidly becoming a lost art on any part of the political spectrum.
Click to expand...
Hah! That's another way of putting it, but essentially this was my point. The political process has become a mockery, and the same is true of many social causes. It's become a platform for people to act of order, and think they can get away with it because it's "for a good cause." If you really want to further your cause do it the right way... educate people, write clear, concise, and interesting literature, create a buzz with a well-made documentary, have peaceful, organized, large scale rallies. But purchasing a booth at a trade show and then breaking the rules of the contract you signed by overstepping your bounds is inappropriate and unethical. Semantics maybe, but it's hypocritical and just as bad as the cause you're fighting.
 
I might have missed it...

I may have missed this being said already, but just in case...

Handing out flyers outside their booth area was just ONE problem, according to a Macworld article. Here's an excerpt:

"There then followed a number of complaints about the behaviour of Greenpeace activists from four visitors and five exhibitors, one of which was Apple. Allegedly, Greenpeace attendees were invading other stands for mock photo shoots and replacing other exhibitors’ promotional material with their own."

So too bad Greenpeace, you pushed too far
 
I'm all for people making others take notice of environmental problems. It's a good thing. I do my share by recycling, conserving gas, and buying organic foods when possible. However, I don't agree when they step over the line and cause damage or put people in harms way. When ELF burned all those vehicles, that's going way over the line. Passing flyers outside of your booth isn't way over the line IMO, but if they broke the rules then they're subject to the consequences.

If activists do things in a mature respectable fashion, they'll get so much further than screaming in people's ear. Throwing paint on people whom wear fur coats is only going to make people hate activits. The best way is to educate and make people aware of what they're doing. Appeal to their emotions and you'll go much father.
 
Good for Apple. Get those tree hugging hippies out of there. Everytime Greenpeace complains Steve Jobs kills a baby seal.
 
MrFirework said:
Okay... I'm not quite done, you can get back to your whining in a moment.

See that area emphasized above? That's the exact thing that causes all our bickering in but the U.S. and the U.K.. The idea that somehow it's okay to violate contracts, laws or even social norms just because you agree with the reason for breaking said rules. If you have a problem with the rules, get them changed, until you do, obey them. There's a reason it's called "civilization" - we all have to be civil for it to work.

Okay. Now I'm really done.
Click to expand...

Actually, the Expo managers allowed them to have 2 people by the entrance giving out leaflets (that much is mentioned in the MacWorld article that has been quoted in this thread).

It transpires that they may have been thrown out for other reasons (berating other stallholders, and taking photos of children without permission). My beef was with the fact that the ORIGINAL story was Greenpeace being thrown out for giving out leaflets outside of its area, which PLENTY of others did too. Yet no-one has any evidence that these other parties were ejected also. It originally seemed like they wanted to make an example of Greenpeace above everyone else, which is what I had a problem with.

However, it transpires that more than just this may have happened yesterday, which is all well and good. If they did something more extreme, then they are deserving of their punishment (ie - they should have been thrown out). But giving out flyers to people away from their stall is NOT a good enough reason!!
 
freebooter said:
ridiculous

coporate types acting like the aritocracy

let information flow

let freedom reign
Click to expand...
Let a bunch of Greenpeace guys go too far at a tradeshow (see above) and get away with it. Read up on the above comments. They violated their contracts and screwed with other vendors' booths. Perhaps you should learn how to think rationally, then learn how to spell.
 
kirk26 said:
Good for Apple. Get those tree hugging hippies out of there. Everytime Greenpeace complains Steve Jobs kills a baby seal.
Click to expand...
I think Steve Jobs considered himself one of those hippies. He only eats organic foods and is a vegan. He rides a bike too. We saw him ride to Stanford Shopping Center a couple months ago. I doubt he likes any group affecting his bottomline, but I bet he's pushing to make things more environmentally friendly. Plus, there's plenty of places to recycle electronics and I'm not sure why corporations are being held responsible. I'd imagine waste managment companies could offer that service as they do recycling for other products. I'm a firm believer that it's an individuals responsibility to recycle, but companies need to make an effort in the production process as well.
 
thworple said:
...But giving out flyers to people away from their stall is NOT a good enough reason!!
Click to expand...

Unfortunately for Greenpace, it's a private event. Fair or not, if the organizers of said event feel like it's enough to throw them out, then it is!

Also, let's give credit where credit is due. Apple even allowing Greenpeace to have a booth there in the fist place is akin to the Republicans allowing the Democrats to deliver a speech during the Republican Nat'l Convention, or vice versa. That's a pretty gracious move on Apple's part. They had nothing to gain by Greenpeace being there, and a lot to lose. I'm sure Apple's tolerance levels for them was extremely low coming in, and rightfully so.
 
ChrisG said:
I. Hate. Greenpeace. I've wasted seconds of my life 'listening' to them and its all rubbish.
http://www.apple.com/environment/
Click to expand...

Exactly. Just a bunch of hippies with their own underlying political agendas. FWIW, Apple is no more or less green than any other PC company... Take that as you will, but considering the majority of their production/manufacturing operations are done in and by many of the same companies that PC makers such as HP, Dell, IBM, etc.. use, it's hard to point the finger at one company.
 
Somebody please explain to me what GW Bush has to do with a Greenpeace story out of the London Mac Expo?

And I don't know UK law, but if they did this in the USA (handing a kid food without parent's permission), they should be arrested. And fired by the company, although there's no company in this case. If somebody does that with one of my kids, they better be prepared to back down fast and apologize, or they will GO down fast. Wouldn't be the first time.

Let them hand out leaflets wherever they want.
 
MrFirework said:
People don't understand what freedoms truly are. It doesn't mean you get to say and do whatever you want wherever you want - that's anarchy, and anarchy is bad... unless you're the biggest, strongest and most brutal. Freedom of speech really means you can't be jailed or otherwise punished by the government for saying what you want in a pulic arena.
Click to expand...

Thank you! I was going to say the same thing... In general, people are clueless and often whine about censorship and how free speech is a thing of the past. What most don't realize is that we have more freedom of speech now then ever before. The key is free speech laws (as you stated) apply within a public domain - always have. What many (even most) fail to grasp is what is truly public grounds. As bitfactory noted "... and who thought shopping malls were public places? WTH? Honestly.", that is so true. I think many people fail to grasp that just because the general public is allowed inside an area does not make it a "public place".
 
I am so sick of these Greenpeace people -- pushy-shovey types with nothing better to do than harrass people when they're trying to have fun at an Expo. Don't they realize the people they want to convince are huge Apple supporters and enthusiasts -- they don't want to hear some downer telling them negativity about Apple.

Apple might not be at the top of what constitutes eco-friendly for GP, but they're doing ok. In my opinion, when a person buys a computer/ipod/whatever, it's THEIR responsibiity to do something with that's eco-friendly-- if they don't know what that is, then they need to be educated.

Most educated, computer types would be more than happy to do the right thing if they just knew what that was. In fact, the dumb ones would too.
 
Grrr. Doesn't greenpeace have something better to deal with, like all these diesel Semi-turcks driving up and down the 5 freeway? Doesn't greenpeace have private jets? Boats? Cars, trucks, etc? Those all pollute the environment far more than a MacBook.

I think something should be done for the environment. I care deeply for the children in china who get to dismantle toxic products (notice my location? You're speaking to a big human rights activist here). I just think the changes should be made by someone who is sane.


MrFirework said:
People don't understand what freedoms truly are. It doesn't mean you get to say and do whatever you want wherever you want - that's anarchy, and anarchy is bad... unless you're the biggest, strongest and most brutal. Freedom of speech really means you can't be jailed or otherwise punished by the government for saying what you want in a pulic arena.
Click to expand...
... even then there are instances where you can be jailed or cited for saying something outrageously obscene or otherwise dangerous to public health/safety.

People need to read the constitution more. The rights guaranteed are surprisingly few, and none of them are absolute.
 
I tend to despise radical groups (*cough* PITA *cough*), or maybe it's better stated, activist groups that act radically. However, these guys probably have some reason to what they're doing. Apple probably could do better, so...hopefully this will wake them up.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back