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He either:

1.Has never heard of Macs.
2.Has never tried a Mac.
3.Has tried a Mac, but:
3.1. Couldn't afford it, so he bashes it.
3.2. Tried one with malfunctioning hardware, bad experience.
4.Has some friend/parent etc. who has filled his head with excretion

It's normal to insult something that you can't get. Reminds me of...


The-Fox-And-The-Grapes.gif
 
My response is you get what you pay for. Macs are better quality hardware, have the superior OSX operating system, and no virus issues. But this falls on deaf ears as a struggling attempt to come up with some rationale.

So what say ye all? Why do we love Macs over PCs, and what do you tell followers of the dark side?

And by dark side you mean Apple? You should, because Apple is much more proprietary and anti-competitive than Microsoft ever was or ever could be.

Besides that, your arguments for a Mac can be pushed from the table with the snap of a finger.

Apple uses standard PC hardware components in their computers. There is NOTHING special or "higher quality" about a Mac. Any upper middle class OEM PC from HP or Dell easily meets Apple's quality level (which, in my experience, isn't that great anyway).

It's the design that makes the difference, and it's the design that makes people buy Macs. Add to that some efficient brainwashing from Apple's marketing department and you're there.

Also, the "superior" Mac OS X operating system is of little to zero use if it does not run the software that you need. Try to imagine at least for a second that millions of people need more than just a web browser and iPhoto and the Adobe Creative Suite to satisfy their needs. And then the "superiority" of Mac OS X can be VERY short lived. Depending on the industry you work in, you will find ZERO software for OS X. Now what's superior about an operating system that cannot run your software?

Viruses. That argument is Apple FUD at its best. Imagine that: Install something like ESET NOD32 on your Windows or Linux machine and all your worries about malware are GONE. Just like that. It costs something like 30 bucks for three years and depending on the volume that you purchase the prices drop heavily.

You should also install an anti-virus software program on your Mac anyway, especially when you exchange Microsoft Office documents with the rest of the world. Maybe your Mac won't get infected, but nevertheless you will be spreading the disease and you have a responsibility.

But even without an anti-virus software, just use a little common sense, don't download pirated software, avoid russian porn pages and don't open every attachment some idiot sent to you via eMail and you will be fine. Additionally, surfing with a relatively safe browser like Firefox also helps a lot (and on Windows it even scans your downloads for viruses).

The only dangerous thing that I have ever caught in 25 years was the W32.Blaster worm -- and that thing could have worked on any other operating system with a similar security hole. For this thing to work, it was enough to hook up an unpatched Windows Server 2003 to the Internet - two minutes later, it would be infected and shut down. This beast cost me a week of work.

BUT: All operating systems have security holes, including Unixes like OS X. LAMP systems are also regularly under attack and their security holes are being exploited - PHP itself is a huge security hole. The more popular a platform is, the more it will be attacked. The community of LAMP users is also learning that fact on a daily basis.

There is no guarantee that OS X won't sooner or later be attacked in a similar way. The only difference here is that almost nobody runs OS X servers, but half of the planet runs Windows servers and the other half runs Linux, Solaris and some other systems that you won't find in a software shelf. Guess what target is more attractive to attack and hack. It's not OS X. And that's not because it is so much safer, but because no relevant company uses it.

Designer hardware and great graphics design don't automatically make for a superior system.

And please don't use "Macs run Windows, too" as an argument. It is quite the opposite, actually - it only proofs that the Mac alone is not a viable platform for most purposes.
 
Exactly.. i talked so much **** about Macs until one day.. my friend sent me a link to the guided tour of Leopard. From that day on i realized, "Wow, everyone is right.. PC's do suck." and i do nothing but convert PC users. I can't even count how many I've converted to Macs. And I've only had my Mac for almost 3 months. I knew everything about OS X months before i even got my Mac. I studied non-stop until i knew i could take it out of the box and do anything and everything i needed. Basically, my point is.. if you're open minded, you'll pick a Mac over a PC 100% of the time.

Okay, in other words, you're still in the freshly-brainwashed phase. After a year or two with a Mac, you will learn that it's also just a lousy computer with its own woes, problems and malfunctions.

But has it ever occurred to you that only Mac and Linux users try to "convert" (which is a religious phrase, by the way) others to the blessings of their cult?

And if you know everything about OS X, then I hope that this includes some of its history and that you know that it's just a heavily customized FreeBSD Unix with roots in BSD Unix 4.3. Meaning that everything that makes OS X so great and stable was not Apple's invention. Just like Apple did not invent the mouse (although they claimed so) and they certainly did not invent the mp3 player.
 
And by dark side you mean Apple? You should, because Apple is much more proprietary and anti-competitive than Microsoft ever was or ever could be.

Besides that, your arguments for a Mac can be pushed from the table with the snap of a finger.

Apple uses standard PC hardware components in their computers. There is NOTHING special or "higher quality" about a Mac. Any upper middle class OEM PC from HP or Dell easily meets Apple's quality level (which, in my experience, isn't that great anyway).

It's the design that makes the difference, and it's the design that makes people buy Macs. Add to that some efficient brainwashing from Apple's marketing department and you're there.

Also, the "superior" Mac OS X operating system is of little to zero use if it does not run the software that you need. Try to imagine at least for a second that millions of people need more than just a web browser and iPhoto and the Adobe Creative Suite to satisfy their needs. And then the "superiority" of Mac OS X can be VERY short lived. Depending on the industry you work in, you will find ZERO software for OS X. Now what's superior about an operating system that cannot run your software?

Viruses. That argument is Apple FUD at its best. Imagine that: Install something like ESET NOD32 on your Windows or Linux machine and all your worries about malware are GONE. Just like that. It costs something like 30 bucks for three years and depending on the volume that you purchase the prices drop heavily.

You should also install an anti-virus software program on your Mac anyway, especially when you exchange Microsoft Office documents with the rest of the world. Maybe your Mac won't get infected, but nevertheless you will be spreading the disease and you have a responsibility.

But even without an anti-virus software, just use a little common sense, don't download pirated software, avoid russian porn pages and don't open every attachment some idiot sent to you via eMail and you will be fine. Additionally, surfing with a relatively safe browser like Firefox also helps a lot (and on Windows it even scans your downloads for viruses).

The only dangerous thing that I have ever caught in 25 years was the W32.Blaster worm -- and that thing could have worked on any other operating system with a similar security hole. For this thing to work, it was enough to hook up an unpatched Windows Server 2003 to the Internet - two minutes later, it would be infected and shut down. This beast cost me a week of work.

BUT: All operating systems have security holes, including Unixes like OS X. LAMP systems are also regularly under attack and their security holes are being exploited - PHP itself is a huge security hole. The more popular a platform is, the more it will be attacked. The community of LAMP users is also learning that fact on a daily basis.

There is no guarantee that OS X won't sooner or later be attacked in a similar way. The only difference here is that almost nobody runs OS X servers, but half of the planet runs Windows servers and the other half runs Linux, Solaris and some other systems that you won't find in a software shelf. Guess what target is more attractive to attack and hack. It's not OS X. And that's not because it is so much safer, but because no relevant company uses it.

Designer hardware and great graphics design don't automatically make for a superior system.

And please don't use "Macs run Windows, too" as an argument. It is quite the opposite, actually - it only proofs that the Mac alone is not a viable platform for most purposes.

I have to jump in here. Interesting discussion.

I don't know. Your arguments in the surface may seem logical, but ring hallow from my 20 years of everyday use of the Windows platform at work both on desktop machines and servers. Blue screens of death, DLL errors, registry bugs and subsequent research to fix, viruses, and the general hackneyed and tasteless look and feel of the software. Call it brainwashing or the like, but there's more intelligence, thought, and elegance put into the design of the Mac and supporting software in my opinion and from my experience.
 
I have to jump in here. Interesting discussion.

I don't know. Your arguments in the surface may seem logical, but ring hallow from my 20 years of everyday use of the Windows platform at work both on desktop machines and servers. Blue screens of death, DLL errors, registry bugs and subsequent research to fix, viruses, and the general hackneyed and tasteless look and feel of the software. Call it brainwashing or the like, but there's more intelligence, thought, and elegance put into the design of the Mac and supporting software in my opinion and from my experience.
In case of Winni, it's always the users w/ Windows experience only bashing Macs/OS X.
 
Guess what target is more attractive to attack and hack. It's not OS X. And that's not because it is so much safer, but because no relevant company uses it.

Umm.. then why were there viruses for Mac OS 9 which was used by WAY fewer people than OS X is today?
 
Apple uses standard PC hardware components in their computers. There is NOTHING special or "higher quality" about a Mac. Any upper middle class OEM PC from HP or Dell easily meets Apple's quality level (which, in my experience, isn't that great anyway).

Oh, yeah, that explains why those other vendors with lower prices produce crappy machines which are to be thrown away after a couple of years, while Apple's products last 3-4+ years, right?

Also, the "superior" Mac OS X operating system is of little to zero use if it does not run the software that you need. Try to imagine at least for a second that millions of people need more than just a web browser and iPhoto and the Adobe Creative Suite to satisfy their needs. And then the "superiority" of Mac OS X can be VERY short lived. Depending on the industry you work in, you will find ZERO software for OS X. Now what's superior about an operating system that cannot run your software?

It IS superior, as long as it doesn't give you all the headaches that Windows does. Even the most basic tasks are much better under OS X. You mention the Adobe CS. Well, it runs much better under OS X than in Windows, even though the Win version is 64 bit. On Windows, those apps crash much more frequently. And this thing is true for most of the cross platform apps out there.

Viruses. That argument is Apple FUD at its best. Imagine that: Install something like ESET NOD32 on your Windows or Linux machine and all your worries about malware are GONE. Just like that. It costs something like 30 bucks for three years and depending on the volume that you purchase the prices drop heavily.

Hahahaha! Really? Because you just install an antivirus, and it will detect ALL the malware right? Please, anti virus vendors take days to detect the malware which are out nowadays. And you can't imagine how many of them are out there. So really, an antivirus software is only a quarter of the protection you need. You need to add 1 or 2 dedicated anti spyware software (=other money) a program which monitors your computer, a firewall (which will add tons of popups) and ideally a Sandbox program. So, it's not that simple.
But even without an anti-virus software, just use a little common sense, don't download pirated software, avoid russian porn pages and don't open every attachment some idiot sent to you via eMail and you will be fine. Additionally, surfing with a relatively safe browser like Firefox also helps a lot (and on Windows it even scans your downloads for viruses).
And that would enough? Tsk, malware is out there every year. You favourite site could be just hacked and automatically download and install malware. And what about external drives? And what if I want to try new software, I can't, because I'm afraid that less known software could be malware, right?
What if I want to watch all the porn I want without being afraid?
Oh and btw, Firefox does nothing but scan the downloaded files with the installed antivirus, which would be scanned by the real time protection anyway


There is no guarantee that OS X won't sooner or later be attacked in a similar way. The only difference here is that almost nobody runs OS X servers, but half of the planet runs Windows servers and the other half runs Linux, Solaris and some other systems that you won't find in a software shelf. Guess what target is more attractive to attack and hack. It's not OS X. And that's not because it is so much safer, but because no relevant company uses it.

Please, don't bring the old 'security through obscurity' myth. It's making you look worse.

And please don't use "Macs run Windows, too" as an argument. It is quite the opposite, actually - it only proofs that the Mac alone is not a viable platform for most purposes.

No, it actually proves that with a Mac you can enjoy the full stability and security of OS X, and if you need to use a Windows program, you can. While on Windows, if you want to use an OS X program, you can't.


There's just no valid argument, no valid reason why OS X isn't better than Windows. So you'd better get over it, what you say is old stuff which has been disproved many times, and I'm not gonna stay here all day long trying to convince you that something so obvious is true. If you don't want to accept it, ok, do you what you want, but do not mislead other people. They don't become so enthusiastic about Macs for no reason.
 
As for me I own both a PC and a Mac.

There's pros and cons to owning both so i don't bash on either OS or platform.

Anyone that takes either side isn't worth your time.
Just ignore them next time.

I'm with you on that one. I'm growing to love my mac mini but I also really like my pc. Both have their uses, strengths and weaknesses.
 
Simplest solution : ignore him, or get him to use a mac and explain why pcs are better or macs are better (personally, i use both, prefer mac, couldn't care what people use and think "its a computer, it does what i want, why do you care?", when pc users tell me things about macs being too expensive etc.)
 
Okay, in other words, you're still in the freshly-brainwashed phase. After a year or two with a Mac, you will learn that it's also just a lousy computer with its own woes, problems and malfunctions.

But has it ever occurred to you that only Mac and Linux users try to "convert" (which is a religious phrase, by the way) others to the blessings of their cult?

And if you know everything about OS X, then I hope that this includes some of its history and that you know that it's just a heavily customized FreeBSD Unix with roots in BSD Unix 4.3. Meaning that everything that makes OS X so great and stable was not Apple's invention. Just like Apple did not invent the mouse (although they claimed so) and they certainly did not invent the mp3 player.
No, I'm not "freshly brainwashed" by Apple. I have friends who have used Macs for years and years.. and guess what, no problems at all. How many Windows users do i know that go months even without no problems? Very few. Windows is a resource hogging piece of junk with more holes in its security system than a bunch of mall "cops" fresh out of junior high. It's junk no matter how you look at it and it has more bundled in junk software than Mac has software total. Every time I'd buy a PC I'd spend my first day deleting all of the junk they got paid to put on it to make it cheaper than a Mac.
 
And by dark side you mean Apple? You should, because Apple is much more proprietary and anti-competitive than Microsoft ever was or ever could be.

Wow. Where to begin? First off, every legal court in the civilized world disagrees with your assessment.

Just because MS makes software (high margin) and sells it to hardware makers (low margin) whereas Apple does the complete package does not make them anti-competitive.

Viruses. That argument is Apple FUD at its best.

Ah yes, the Windows virus plague is just a vast Apple-wing conspiracy. :rolleyes:

Maybe your Mac won't get infected, but nevertheless you will be spreading the disease and you have a responsibility.

I feel absolutely zero responsibility for Windows' security issues. Thanks for "sharing" though.

The only dangerous thing that I have ever caught in 25 years was the W32.Blaster worm -- and that thing could have worked on any other operating system with a similar security hole. For this thing to work, it was enough to hook up an unpatched Windows Server 2003 to the Internet - two minutes later, it would be infected and shut down. This beast cost me a week of work.

Hmm, so much for Apple FUD. And the worm didn't work on any other operating system. It worked on Windows. Your hypotheticals are pointless.

There is no guarantee that OS X won't sooner or later be attacked in a similar way.

Irrelevant to the argument. I buy a computer based on real dangers, not hypothetical imagined dangers. Again, your hypothetical fails.


Guess what target is more attractive to attack and hack. It's not OS X. And that's not because it is so much safer, but because no relevant company uses it.

Great. I hope they keep using Windows and Linux servers - keep all the bad guys focused on those platforms. You just made an argument for buying a Mac.
 
Haha, please all you Mac people stop using Macs, if it weren't for Windows I will be homeless, I want to thank you all your Windows people for paying my rent!! Go buy more Windoes PCs!!
 
I don't even engage people now in Mac/PC debates.

Or I just say, "You prefer PCs. I prefer Macs." And I shrug and leave it at that.
 
...
It's the design that makes the difference, and it's the design that makes people buy Macs. ...

Of course, the OS is part of the system design.

Depending on the industry you work in, you will find ZERO software for OS X. Now what's superior about an operating system that cannot run your software?

A fair enough statement, but it reeks of a common fallacy where the justification is based upon the tail wagging the dog. Thus (analogy warning): All Porsches Stink For Everyone because Porsche doesn't sell a pickup truck variant for the few who might need one.


Viruses. ... The only dangerous thing that I have ever caught in 25 years was the W32.Blaster worm -- and that thing could have worked on any other operating system with a similar security hole.

"Could" have...but just which happens to exclude OS X.

This beast cost me a week of work.

And the business value of that lost time was how much?

SWAG'ing, the business worth of a man-week at a salary of $80K at a 150% overhead rate (yes, cheap) would be roughly $2,300. Similarly, a $50K salary at a 200% overhead would be worth $1,925.

Plus, we've all invariably been hit with other PC-centric losses over the past umpteen years, but we are all human and thus tend to be forgetful and overlook old losses. For example, try to recall if you really did get through Melissa utterly unscathed?

Similarly, let's not forget each month's Patch Tuesday impact on workplace productivity - its easy to overlook since its typically only a few hours, and it predictably happens a dozen time per year. I know that I had extra downtime last week because of it.

Bottom line is that even a proverbial $500 "Apple Tax" can start to sound like a reasonable bargain, once one starts to actually research & populate the relevant numbers.


And for the OP, a comment such as the: "You prefer PCs. I prefer Macs." mentioned by Eanair is useful, since it is a non-engaging, disarming and avoids proselytizing perceptions.

Bottom line is that its your money, not your neighbor's, and that's all that matters. The neighbor won't be receptive to any meaningful dialog until he stops his attempts to give grief and honestly asks "Why?", so don't waste your time.


-hh
 
Different strokes different folks I guess. I wont goof on people for using PC's. I wont try to make them see things through my eyes or force my opinion on them. Some people dig them...fine. It really does not bother me.

I have my reasons for not liking PC's. I "feel" they are quite valid in "my" mind. However, I am guilty bragging about my mac's to people that bring it up when they see my iMac or MBP. I find it quite interesting that more and more people are turning to Mac.

I am currently deployed to Kuwait. Three of us here have MBP's out of 27 folks. At least four other guys are going to buy a Mac before they leave. Not that I have poisoned the well, I think thats cool! One saw me using iChat talking with wifey and said to me, "Thats it!" "I am buying a Mac...."

As for your boisterous neighbor. Let him enjoy his PC and say whatever...does it really matter? You're happy with your mac right? No need to say anymore....or nothing a few rounds from the ole potato gun wont clear up.:D
 
You can't expect someone who has never used OS X on a daily basis to understand what makes Macs better than PCs. I know several who have switched from PC to Mac but not one who has switched from Mac to PC.

One of these days they'll realize what they've been missing out on. In the meantime... sit back, smile and enjoy your Mac ;)
 
You can't expect someone who has never used OS X on a daily basis to understand what makes Macs better than PCs. I know several who have switched from PC to Mac but not one who has switched from Mac to PC.

One of these days they'll realize what they've been missing out on. In the meantime... sit back, smile and enjoy your Mac ;)

I'd just say.. "Tell me when your PC crashes and you're ready to use common sense and logic and buy something that works.."
 
Lately I've been thinking about it thusly:

If you like to, and/or feel the need to tinker with your computer constantly, then a Windows PC is probably for you. In my experience, I have to constantly tinker with my gaming box and work PC to get it to behave the way I want it to.

If you don't want to tinker (or perhaps tinker occasionally), then a Mac is probably for you.

If you're into masochism, then go for Linux. ;)

So I just ask people if they like to tinker with their computer. "Futz" is also an acceptable word.






There, I wrote tinker five times.
 
Here's what a colleague at work shared with me, using airline flying as an analogy:

Airline Operating Systems

UNIX Airways
Everyone brings one piece of the plane along when they come to the airport. They all go out on the runway and put the plane together piece by piece, arguing non-stop about what kind of plane they are supposed to be building.

Air DOS
Everybody pushes the airplane until it glides, then they jump on and let the plane coast until it hits the ground again. Then they push again, jump on again, and so on ...

Mac Airlines
All the stewards, captains, baggage handlers, and ticket agents look and act exactly the same. Every time you ask questions about details, you are gently but firmly told that you don't need to know, don't want to know, and everything will be done for you without your ever having to know, so just shut up.

Windows Air
The terminal is pretty and colorful, with friendly stewards, easy baggage check and boarding, and a smooth take-off. After about 10 minutes in the air, the plane explodes with no warning whatsoever.

Windows Vista Air
Just like Windows Air, but costs more, uses much bigger planes, and takes out all the other aircraft within a 40-mile radius when it explodes.

Linux Air
Disgruntled employees of all the other OS airlines decide to start their own airline. They build the planes, ticket counters, and pave the runways themselves. They charge a small fee to cover the cost of printing the ticket, but you can also download and print the ticket yourself. When you board the plane, you are given a seat, four bolts, a wrench and a copy of the seat-HOWTO.html. Once settled, the fully adjustable seat is very comfortable, the plane leaves and arrives on time without a single problem, the in-flight meal is wonderful. You try to tell customers of the other airlines about the great trip, but all they can say is, "You had to do what with the seat?"
 
My experience has been just the opposite - when neighbors, friends, family get exposed to my Mac, they are usually so liberated by seeing a computer that easily does what they want, that they end up getting one. The other amazing thing: after using their Macs for a time, they report back that their high expectations were met or exceeded. Stories like these bug the crap of the likes of Winni and Opetor.
 
The thing i don't agree with is.. "pretty and colorful". I've never found any version of Windows to be the slightest bit "pretty" or attractive in anyway. It's.. ugly.
 
I like it that I'm the only person in my class using a mac. It makes me feel special or exclusive you know.

And usually in teevee shows, stars use a mac and stuff which kinda makes owning a mac like a exclusive thing anddddd it's expensive too!

I mean like people will be like. Ohh you're rich.

How can that doesn't make you feel good?-.-
 
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