GT Advanced Saw Production Troubles as Early as February

[-LikesMac-]

Watching all this and hoping for GT's well deserved end
Seriously though, it seems that bringing production back to the US has taken a hit.

 

[HyperZboy]

The GTA plant staffed up and idealistically churned out a bunch of worthless sapphire that could not even be sold to other companies. The sad part is that sapphire is not even needed, nor as strong as Gorilla Glass for the iPhone.

If I agree with your point, then I'm basically calling Tim Cook a complete moron for buying into a phony scam.

And since when is Corning's spin on sapphire really all that important? Would you expect them to say, "Oh, we're beaten, we're done Let's turn the lights out!"

LOL

 

[mac*jedi*g]

A cup of "Solyndra" anyone?

 

[uwdude]

Waaaait just a minute here. So they're saying these execs KNEW that the deal was going south, and that likely they knew the sapphire wasn't working out for this year's iPhone BEFORE they put the share sale plan in place? Did they really think they would get away with something like that in a public company where everything has to be reported?? This is wild.

 

[gnasher729]

Did the above companies got loan from Apple? Do they have financial obligations to Apple? Do they only able to sell products to Apple?

Samsung did - many years ago $100 million to build capacity for delivering LCD screens to Apple. At a time when most computers didn't use LCD screens yet.

 

[SoGood]

What's becoming clear is, the upper management of GT Advanced are risk takers with questionable ethics. They pawned the company on technical targets that are beyond their reach and took the gamble. Then when things are going downhill, they ripped the market for their personal gains. The losers are Apple and Apple's customers.

 

[rsocal]

Man, you need to chill out.

First you'll have to point to the terms in the agreement or anywhere where it has been sourced that Apple owns the equipment now. To be clear I'm not taking a position on it, simply pointing out that a LOT of what we know so far is not sourced and can't know the details until they come out.

If I give you $400 dollars to get a coffee and you come back with chocolate which I told you I wouldn't accept - how have I not taken any risk? I'm out $400 dollars and interest and for relying on you instead of another to accomplish the task.

Did you read the article...yes Apple knew there were issues back in February. However it looks like GT downplayed the magnitude - note how immediately after management start selling off - possible a clue that they themselves did not believe things would not work out. However they kept communicating to Apple in such a way as they were still expecting yet another payment all the way in October. If management weren't confident back in February, why did they still expect another payout 8 months later? Why not communicate more clearly to Apple how bad the situation was?

Other than that, I don't know what you're so bent out of shape about.

I your comment with the $400 for a coffee but getting chocolate milk, that's a great way to make it simple!

They promised, couldn't deliver, but were still willing to get another payment from Apple and all the while selling off stock. Are you f'n kidding me, SEC is going to be all over this, or Martha Stewart really got screwed!

It actually IMO, looks like they were going to go all they way to get last payment from Apple, and then file BK? Looks like Apple might have got wind of some of the shady scumbag **** going on with CEO & COO and put the brakes on!

GTAT got $440 million and new they couldn't deliver or were very stupid about what they could produce!

I would love to get some insight from GTengineer's to get their take on this. I bet it would be very interesting to hear what they have to say, maybe they new it couldn't be done from the start, or they had the company thinking they could, and that's why GTAT made the deal? Either way GTAT has only themselves to blame.

I strongly believe these 2 characters, CEO & COO, were planning since February, selling off $10 million in stock is clear evidence to me!

However this plays out, I hope at the very least the SEC goes after CEO & COO!

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What's becoming clear is, the upper management of GT Advanced are risk takers with questionable ethics. They pawned the company on technical targets that are beyond their reach and took the gamble. Then when things are going downhill, they ripped the market for their personal gains. The losers are Apple and Apple's customers.

And GTAT share holders, with no inside information like CEO/COO!

 

[MacVista]

If I agree with your point, then I'm basically calling Tim Cook a complete moron for buying into a phony scam.

And since when is Corning's spin on sapphire really all that important? Would you expect them to say, "Oh, we're beaten, we're done Let's turn the lights out!"

LOL

1) Beats
2) GT
3) ______

At least Apple can sell half-baked sapphire knives to go with those overpriced beats headphones.

 

[teknishn]

Apple should just buy them out.

 

[groovyd]

and it will really get interesting when they find out that these guys laundered out half of the millions apple payed them along the way.

 

[cfedu]

The GTA plant staffed up and idealistically churned out a bunch of worthless sapphire that could not even be sold to other companies. The sad part is that sapphire is not even needed, nor as strong as Gorilla Glass for the iPhone.

Would also add thats it is heavier, more expensive and would cause the phone to use more power at the same thickness.

 

[rmatthewware]

Apple assumed no risk? They sank half a billion into the company, that sounds like risk to me. And if GT's CEO started cashing out based on information not available to the public, he should go to jail.

 

[bsolar]

What's becoming clear is, the upper management of GT Advanced are risk takers with questionable ethics. They pawned the company on technical targets that are beyond their reach and took the gamble. Then when things are going downhill, they ripped the market for their personal gains. The losers are Apple and Apple's customers.

To be honest you don't get to deliver truly innovative products if you don't take risks. In this case they were unable to reach their goals, but that's not something you know at the beginning.

Note that the bet was made by Apple too: I doubt they were in the dark about the uncertainties of this new productive technology, but still decided the potential was worth the risk and invested in GT Advanced.

 

[SoGood]

And GTAT share holders, with no inside information like CEO/COO!

Right on!

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To be honest you don't get to deliver truly innovative products if you don't take risks. In this case they were unable to reach their goals, but that's not something you know at the beginning.

Note that the bet was made by Apple too: I doubt they were in the dark about the uncertainties of this new productive technology, but still decided the potential was worth the risk and invested in GT Advanced.

True that business is a betting game. However, the ethics of the upper management has shown through by their actions. Their are ethical betting and there are unethical ones. The evidence is showing that GT Advanced's management is of questionable ethical standards, throwing all their business practices into question.

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The GTA plant staffed up and idealistically churned out a bunch of worthless sapphire that could not even be sold to other companies. The sad part is that sapphire is not even needed, nor as strong as Gorilla Glass for the iPhone.

Hey! Sapphire could have prevented 'Bendgate'!

 

[Siderealx]

$400m on useless sapphire, $3.2bn on crap headphones and $100m on a U2 album no one wants... What exactly are Apple doing?

 

[rsocal]

Hey! Sapphire could have prevented 'Bendgate'! [/QUOTE]

Then we would have had "Shattergate"!

People will find any little thing they can to get some kind of Apple "Gate".....

 

[AdonisSMU]

And Tim Cook was the one who wanted to bring jobs to America. Well now we know the reason people prefer to do business in China. Greedy CEOs and company management trying to get rich quick by pulling a Mitt Romney.

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What's becoming clear is, the upper management of GT Advanced are risk takers with questionable ethics. They pawned the company on technical targets that are beyond their reach and took the gamble. Then when things are going downhill, they ripped the market for their personal gains. The losers are Apple and Apple's customers.

Don't forget the American people who could've used the jobs Apple was trying to provide to the US.

 

[nad8e]

No sane business management team would ever agree to a deal with Apple given those terms, right? Hell, I have no business education and even I would never agree to that deal.

You're kidding right? Someone offers you an upper management job for $350k a year or even $125,000 a year and you know it's risky, it may just be a short term project, but you still get your salary. What do you do?

It was essentially just an R&D project for Apple. The management team knew that. The workers obviously needed work.

 

[rsocal]

And Tim Cook was the one who wanted to bring jobs to America. Well now we know the reason people prefer to do business in China. Greedy CEOs and company management trying to get rich quick by pulling a Mitt Romney.

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Don't forget the American people who could've used the jobs Apple was trying to provide to the US.

Very sad but true!

 

[69Mustang]

No sane business management team would ever agree to a deal with Apple given those terms, right? Hell, I have no business education and even I would never agree to that deal.

Pardon me if I am misinterpreting your quote.

You'd never agree to a multi-part loan where you have to meet certain (specified) milestones to receive later payments?

I think what lewis25 is referencing is the one sided deal GT made to get the funding. As in no sane business management team would:

1. Rely solely on one customer & give that customer all the leverage in the relationship.

2. Give up the right to sell product to other potential customers in the event the single customer decides not to buy the product.

3. Not get a minimum order agreement in place. Instead sign an agreement that says the customer can choose not to purchase the product and there is nothing to be done except look stupid for signing that deal.

The proverbial "Deal with the Devil" or "The Devil is in the Details" was obviously not on the minds of GT's management team. The promise of $500 million and a prestigious relationship blinded them to the idiocy of essentially giving up control of your future. When GT signed that contract they became little more than indentured servants.

Apple can't be blamed though. GT signed that contract with full knowledge of what they were signing. The repercussions rest solely with them.

 

[SoGood]

Apple can't be blamed though. GT signed that contract with full knowledge of what they were signing. The repercussions rest solely with them.

I agree. GT Advanced would know the sapphire crystal technology much better than Apple. They saw the money and ignored the technical realities of what they have. Quite simply, untrustworthy and unethical. Upper management's execution of their stocks proved what they are about.

 

[rsocal]

I agree. GT Advanced would know the sapphire crystal technology much better than Apple. They saw the money and ignored the technical realities of what they have. Quite simply, untrustworthy and unethical. Upper management's execution of their stocks proved what they are about.

Amen!

 

[centauratlas]

No sane business management team would ever agree to a deal with Apple given those terms, right? Hell, I have no business education and even I would never agree to that deal.

Think about this though: suppose you were struggling and about to close down, but this isn't public knowledge. Suddenly, Apple shows up offering $500 million to build screens for them, something you are reportedly good at, something you think you have a 10%-15% chance of doing (or even 90%). You jump at it, no matter what the terms because the alternative is to shut down sooner. This way you at least have a shot. Sure, you sign up for whatever terms they want because the alternative is no chance.

Of course you screw up in the 1st quarter, realize you won't make the terms, so start selling stock (unethical to say the least) and then shut down in the fall.

 

[Doomtomb]

It was probably both parties that were at fault but I've seen this times before to know it was probably Apple pushing very aggressive deadlines on GT. Even with the cash, ramping up the kind of manufacturing demands for the Big A was too much of a profit opportunity to pass up. I know this from working for a supplier for

 

[Kwill]

If I agree with your point, then I'm basically calling Tim Cook a complete moron for buying into a phony scam.

And since when is Corning's spin on sapphire really all that important? Would you expect them to say, "Oh, we're beaten, we're done Let's turn the lights out!"

LOL

No need for name calling. Apple patented a new fused sapphire screen. GTA was likely clued in on the specifications and indicated a new manufacturing process would be required. Apple loaned GTA the money to ramp up.

The sapphire needed to be big with flawless clarity and in significantly higher quantities than ever imagined. Apparently yields were not as great as anticipated and Apple, true to form, (within its contractual rights) rejected the early production runs. GTA realized that they agreed to manufacturing something they could not deliver. Not only could they not make a sale, they did not qualify to receive the final loan installment for the equipment, new facility and employee salaries. GTA then (not so) surprisingly filed bankruptcy to extricate itself from the onerous contract.