Hands-On Impressions of the iPhone 5s, iPhone 5c, and Touch ID

[Urban Joe]

Well, I'm not that surprised nor amazed. It makes excellent business sense. Adding e.g. SD ports to iPhones would obliterate the market for the 32 or 64 Mb versions and would divert those revenues to SanDisk.

Getting the versions more closely priced to the real cost of the memory (e.g. $199, $129, $149) would destroy differentiation and segment targeting between the versions and make production planning very difficult, increasing cost.

I'm amazed other phone producers don't realise this.

I think you're right from a certain point of view. But as competitors catch up Apple will do well for itself by "giving a little" in order to keep people onboard. I don't think always maximizing profits (ie. taking the most amount of money you can from people) will serve them well in the long run. Apple needs to realize that, given their current scale, their game is changing. If they continue play ball by the old rules then they likely will decline. The market is very volatile and they could fall much farther and much quicker than they probably think. They should not take customer loyalty for granted or they will lose it. For the near term it will be interesting to see how the sales of their latest offerings fare. Long term, they certainly have their challenges.

 

[viskon]

[/QUOTE] As Colonel Potter would say - what a load of horse-hockey! So wrong it's hilarious.

64-bits lets you address more than 4 GiB (or 2 GiB) of RAM more easily (even 32-bit x86 Intel chips can use 64 GiB of RAM). How much RAM does an Iphone 5 have??

It does *nothing* to make the chip faster - 32-bit Haswell chips can use 256-bit registers. 32-bit x86 chips have used 128-bit registers since 1999 - when Apple was still dealing with the PowerPC fiasco.

Some 64-bit architectures have other features unrelated to being 64-bit that help performance - for example the x64 architecture has twice as many registers compared to the x86 architecture, which helps (not "doubles") performance. From today's PowerPoints, it seems that the A7 also doubled the number of registers compared to the A6.

...and to simply say that 64-bit is twice as fast as 32-bit is ignorant. Consider reading What the first 64-bit iPhone chip means for you (hint: not much right now)[/QUOTE]

I have been wondering about this 64 bit thing myself. Does not make sense to have a 64 bit address bus when all the iPhone 5S will have is maybe 1 GB RAM. Maybe all Apple is doing is future proofing their platform with the 64 bit architecture. Thanks for the link.

 

[RobertMartens]

Ehh, yawn…looks like the last one. A couple of features are cool, but this is Apple we're talking about. Can't wait for 6.

You forgot to say "First!"

 

[BvizioN]

Can someone in UK answer this please?

Does any of these 2 new models work on O2's 4G network?

 

[APPLEFUNRF]

 

[glenbogle]

Can someone in UK answer this please?

Does any of these 2 new models work on O2's 4G network?

It's unclear at the moment, but looking at the list of compatible bands and frequencies on Apple's website, I think that both should work on O2's 4G network. It would be a major disappointment for O2 as a company if they didn't.

 

[anomie]

the gap in 3rd world countries like here in mexico, I do not see it happening. It goes for 549. on apple usa website, which means it will go for close to 700 us or more here. Since well over 80% do not go contract here it will really affect nothing here. So I guess breaking into countries like this was not the point. At that price point it will be no closer in reach to the vast majority than the over 800.00 5s. The people that can afford the 5s are the ones that can afford the 5c.

Mexico is not a "3rd world country".

 

[peterdevries]

I think you're right from a certain point of view. But as competitors catch up Apple will do well for itself by "giving a little" in order to keep people onboard. I don't think always maximizing profits (ie. taking the most amount of money you can from people) will serve them well in the long run. Apple needs to realize that, given their current scale, their game is changing. If they continue play ball by the old rules then they likely will decline. The market is very volatile and they could fall much farther and much quicker than they probably think. They should not take customer loyalty for granted or they will lose it. For the near term it will be interesting to see how the sales of their latest offerings fare. Long term, they certainly have their challenges.

I agree that they need to observe the market, but part of what you say isn't completely correct if you refer to pricing.

The whole nature of price elasticity is that you provide solutions at prices that fit demand. That's exactly what Apple does. They provide solutions at different price-points fitting to the spending preferences of their target market. In addition they yesterday introduced a new product line to cater to those customers at the lower end.

So, in essence Apple is doing exactly what you say. Now in terms of functionality it is a different story. Apple is running a bit behind, and needs to look a bit more at the competition. I agree with that. But in terms of pricing there is someone within Apple that really knows how it works and does it right.

 

[Sister Owl]

Hands-On Impressions of the iPhone 5s, iPhone 5c, and Touch ID

Anyone wonder what will happen next year when they release the iPhone 6? Will they go back to the old way of offering the previous version cheaper and leaving it as is (but with limited storage options) or will the iPhone 5s become the iPhone 5sc or iPhone 5cs?

I think the 5S is gonna get plastic shell and become second, 5C is gonna become third replacing the 4S, and the 6 will be new in aluminum design, and so on

 

[Gudi]

As Colonel Potter would say - what a load of horse-hockey! So wrong it's hilarious.

I might be wrong about this, since I only studied computer science. Lets look what wikipedia has to say:

„In computer architecture, 64-bit computing is the use of processors that have datapath widths, integer size, and memory addresses widths of 64 bits (eight octets). Also, 64-bit CPU and ALU architectures are those that are based on registers, address buses, or data buses of that size. From the software perspective, 64-bit computing means the use of code with 64-bit virtual memory addresses.“ (64-bit computing)

64-bits lets you address more than 4 GiB (or 2 GiB) of RAM more easily (even 32-bit x86 Intel chips can use 64 GiB of RAM). How much RAM does an Iphone 5 have??

The bigger address space is only one part of the equation. Yes with memory address widths of 64-bit you can finally address more than 4 GB of RAM. Which does not matter since the iPhone has not reached this barrier yet. But you get also a bigger databus to the processor and a bigger datapath through the processor.

„A datapath is a collection of functional units, such as arithmetic logic units or multipliers, that perform data processing operations. It is a central part of many central processing units (CPUs) along with the control unit, which largely regulates interaction between the datapath and the data itself, usually stored in registers or main memory.“ (datapath)

It does *nothing* to make the chip faster - 32-bit Haswell chips can use 256-bit registers. 32-bit x86 chips have used 128-bit registers since 1999 - when Apple was still dealing with the PowerPC fiasco.

32-bit Haswell chips? What the hell are you talking about?

Some 64-bit architectures have other features unrelated to being 64-bit that help performance - for example the x64 architecture has twice as many registers compared to the x86 architecture, which helps (not "doubles") performance. From today's PowerPoints, it seems that the A7 also doubled the number of registers compared to the A6.

Yes for example they all have a 64-bit datapath. Thats why its called 64-bit computing, not 64-bit registering or 64-bit addressing.

...and to simply say that 64-bit is twice as fast as 32-bit is ignorant.

It means the chip is TWICE AS FAST. And its not twice as fast, because they doubled the cpu frequency, but because they doubled the cpu datapath width. Sorry for being ignorant by pointing out things you don't know.

Consider reading What the first 64-bit iPhone chip means for you (hint: not much right now)

Read it. Funny story bro:

"With current mobile devices and mobile apps, there really is no advantage [to 64 bits] other than marketing -- the ability to say you're the first to have it," said Jim McGregor, principal analyst at Tirias Research.

Oh look, he's an principal analyst and he notes that in principle, if no one ever recompiles their apps to 64-bit, nothing will ever run faster on a 64-bit cpu. Congratulations! Too bad Apple already recompiled all of their own apps and the iOS itself. So that already runs twice as fast. No need to wait for Infinity Blade 3.

 

[benwiggy]

Is it just me, or does the 5C not look so much of a bargain in other countries? In the UK, the off-contract price for it looks about £50 less than the 5 was selling at. The 5S looks more expensive.

 

[numlock]

Is it just me, or does the 5C not look so much of a bargain in other countries? In the UK, the off-contract price for it looks about £50 less than the 5 was selling at. The 5S looks more expensive.

only deluded people on here are praising the 5c as anything but a slap in the face.

in the markets where people pay full price upfront i dont see the appeal of going 5c over 5s or even getting your hands on the 5.

should be at least $100 cheaper than the current price.

perhaps people on here would think a bit differently if they were faced with the option of having to pay around or more than a $1000 for a phone that is pretty much last years.

Ehh, yawn…looks like the last one. A couple of features are cool, but this is Apple we're talking about. Can't wait for 6.

why do you think they can do anything innovative for the next version? you think the close r&d every other year?

 

[Gudi]

Can someone in UK answer this please?
Does any of these 2 new models work on O2's 4G network?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LTE_networks
http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone-5c/specs/
http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone-5s/specs/

Its a band 20 network. And all new iPhones models support band 20.
So I would say. YES!

 

[Sister Owl]

only deluded people on here are praising the 5c as anything but a slap in the face.

in the markets where people pay full price upfront i dont see the appeal of going 5c over 5s or even getting your hands on the 5.

should be at least $100 cheaper than the current price.

perhaps people on here would think a bit differently if they were faced with the option of having to pay around or more than a $1000 for a phone that is pretty much last years.

Here in Ukraine, on black market (because there's no official iPhone here) 5S in preorder starts from $1000, 5C from $630, and 5 currently is $760. Initially, when the 5 was new, it’s price also started from $1000, so price for the new ones eventually will go down also. I would guess with this plastic model, I'm gonna see a lot more iPhones around here, especially in a year or so.

 

[CammyMcGowan]

I'm jumping from the 4s to 5s, looking forward to it!

 

[Giuly]

Can someone in UK answer this please?

Does any of these 2 new models work on O2's 4G network?

5c:

5s:

Does this answer your question?

 

[everything-i]

As I'm planning to keep my iPhone 5 and update to iOS7 ASAP, that statement about the 5S with its monster A7 running iOS7 is a little concerning.

The slow animation is nothing to do with processor limitations its just the speed the animations have been designed to run is too slow for some.

 

[numlock]

Here in Ukraine, on black market (because there's no official iPhone here) 5S in preorder starts from $1000, 5C from $630, and 5 currently is $760. Initially, when the 5 was new, it’s price also started from $1000, so price for the new ones eventually will go down also. I would guess with this plastic model, I'm gonna see a lot more iPhones around here, especially in a year or so.

do you know where the iphones come from?

but why do you expect more people to get the 5c rather than a second hand 5 or even an older?

 

[Isamilis]

So, to sum up. In the 41 months since the iPhone 4 was released, we have:

-- A faster CPU
-- Siri
-- A screen that's bigger by 0.5 inches in one dimension
-- A better camera
-- A fingerprint reader
-- More colors

And we are still paying 2010 prices for flash memory that costs less than a quarter of what it did. A 64 gig USB 3 stick is $30, 64 gig high speed SSD's are in the $60 range. upgrading the iPhone to 64 gig is still $200. Even though the OS and Apps have grown over time, the flash size is still the same.

I think the celebrations are well underway at google and samsung. Even Steve Ballmer has got to be laughing right now.

Agree with this. I have all apple logo stamped in almost every electronic devices at my home, but now, I am start thinking on Sony Xperia Z1 with its 20mpx camera and simple/snappy 4.2. I feels like something essential has lost from Apple now. Not sure what, but it's like the spirit has started diminished.

 

[Gudi]

But that's an aside - my point is that 64-bit doesn't make it twice as fast, 128-bit doesn't make it 4 times faster, and 256-bit doesn't make it 8 times faster. (And the truly curious and clueless will ask why 64-bit doesn't make it 4 billion times faster, 128-bit doesn't make it 16 quintillion times faster, and 256-bit doesn't make it 10^36 faster.)

Oh yes, a 256-bit cpu (if someone could make one) would actually run 8 times faster than a 32-bit cpu provided both are running with the same processor frequency and have similar architecture, just with a wider data path.

What you do not realize, it is not the size of all registers combined that defines what kind of cpu it is. Its the size of one single register, because that is the amount of data the cpu can swallow in one computational step. 256-bit registers could mean 4 x 64-bit registers, 8 x 32-bit registers, 16 x 16-bit registers, or even 32 x 8-bit registers.

The ancient 8-bit computer would need 32 steps just to read all this data from 256-bit of registers, while the imaginary 256-bit computer would just swallow it all in one step. Making it a 32-times faster computer. With 64-bits we are now only 8-times faster than the old 8-bit computers.

Also contributing to cpu speed higher frequencies, more cores, different instruction sets ...

 

[benwiggy]

only deluded people on here are praising the 5c as anything but a slap in the face.
in the markets where people pay full price upfront i dont see the appeal of going 5c over 5s or even getting your hands on the 5.
should be at least $100 cheaper than the current price.

An iPhone 5 with 32Gb was £599, IIRC. The 32Gb 5C is £549 ($858); The 5S is £629 ($983).
On the US site, the unlocked 32Gb 5C is $649, the 5S is $749. Even allowing for shipping and taxes, we're still being stiffed in the UK.

The 5C only makes sense if it's significantly cheaper. I guess we'll have to see what the tariff deals are like.

 

[bretm]

Would have been better if Apple released two different screen sizes for iPhone 5S instead of releasing that plastic iPhone 5C on the side.

WHY?

Because in many online surveys, about 70% of the people indicate that they want a screen bigger than 4" on the iPhone (Personally, that's why I'm not upgrading from iPhone 4 either, I'm waiting for the 6). Now, many people are perfectly happy with the current size due to its portability benefit or their hand size. But it would be better to have screen size options (something like 4.5 inches) just like how the Macbook Pros have different screen size options. Believe me, many people move to Android just because of the screen size. Ask yourself, why do people use iPad or iPad mini? Because of the big screen size. A bigger screen means you can do more things, developers can make better use of the screen estate, etc... Why did Apple release iPad mini? For more choice.

A little bit of choice is always better. With choice, its easier to find the sweet spot for yourself. Now, iPhone 5C is giving us choice, but unfortunately, it doesn't deserve the price it is at and it's basically an iPhone 5.

Sometimes I think Apple knows they should have released an iPhone with a bigger screen size this year (along with the current 4" 5S) but it seems they're almost afraid that they won't be able to make something much better next year. So they're leaving the screen size for the iPhone 6 next year, which maybe the single most important feature of the iPhone 6 (also, a bigger screen would allow more room for battery, NFC, bigger camera sensor, thinner design, smaller bezels, etc...)

I think they're waiting for the 3.5" to be phased out. IOW not supported. When the 6 adds a larger size, it's OS 8 won't be supported on the 4/4S possibly. That way developers are still only focusing on two sizes.

 

[Gudi]

Agree with this. I have all apple logo stamped in almost every electronic devices at my home, but now, I am start thinking on Sony Xperia Z1 with its 20mpx camera and simple/snappy 4.2. I feels like something essential has lost from Apple now. Not sure what, but it's like the spirit has started diminished.

I know what is missing, its called skeuomorphism. Its what makes human beings get warm with computers. Its what Steve Jobs promoted throughout his career. Its what Apple abandoned when switching to a more modern UI.

 

[satcomer]

So no AC wireless so it can't take advantage of the new AirPort Extreme! This seems to be an oversight.

 

[bretm]

Image

Looks like the crocs even have a fingerprint sensor in the heel!