Harry the Nazi

[kettle]

In addition, my comments were supposed to be light-hearted. I think some readers got that impression. Evidently you did not.

ditto. Which must mean your bit about -

There are lots of other Royals as well, but no-one really cares about them. They are hardly worth writing about. So I won't.

was humorously untrue too.
Which perhaps indicates that more than your politics would like there to be, actually care about the royal family.


My biggest worry is when people forget what allowed the "holocaust" or any of the "other holocaust" to happen. It's a dynamic usually propagated by the controlling media of the day. The controlling media starts to make rules which stop people from thinking for themselves.

35 million people voted for the nazi party, and that was just second position, it seems quite obvious to me if people got out of the habbit of doing something because someone else is doing it. The powers that make it inappropriate to make reference to the nazis in any way but the "proper" way, have the same dynamics that will allow the next despicable abuse of popular consent.

Of all people I think those of greater influence should show people how to think outside the "proper" box. It is exactly this sort of behavior that makes him better than those who just follow the "correct" behaviour.

If you want to analyse it, Harry has done a good thing by making people approach the subject from another angle, deliberate or not, any strike against the feeble minded who "do what they're told" is a good thing, even at the expense of consideration to victims of holocaust.

How could so few bad people control the will of so many supposedly "indifferent" people.

In terms of "political correctness", the ideals of PC are admirable, but until people actually learn and know why they need to have PC ideals, all we are doing is training a huge number of people to "do what they're told". (a very dangerous weapon to leave lying around)

I think many people are kicking Harry because it furthers their political opinions. I think these people know something is wrong with what Harry did but for all their reasoning can't think why it is actually wrong. Worse than that they will not spare a moment to wonder why Harry is exactly the sort of person who should do this.

Apologies to Kettle and all for the length of this rebuttal.

your sincerest... ..apologies accepted.

 

[spikeovsky]

its unfortunate that some people arent senstive, i wouldnt dare wear any thing like that ever.

I'm not sure it's a matter of that guy being insensitive - the fact that he was a Chinese guy wearing a "white power" shirt in a Chinese city suggests he thought it looked cool and had no idea what it was about. I'm not inclined to assume that it was intended as an ironic reference, since that sort of irony doesn't really exist in China the way it does in the west.

 

[iGav]

I haven't seen any reports calling him anti-semitic(at least in the broadsheets in U.K.) they are just pointing out what a ignorant **** he is.

Exactly...

 

[Mechcozmo]

actually i think that the apology and visiting the camp are pretty good punishments.

Visiting a death camp shouldn't be a punishment. It shouldn't be something like "Oh, I did something bad so daddy made me go here." It should be a visit that makes you really think at what evil there is. There are still scratches in the walls, made with their own fingernails, in the rooms where people were tortured. You can see a pile of ash there, dozens of feet tall.

I'm not attacking you, I just wanted to point this out.

 

[virividox]

Visiting a death camp shouldn't be a punishment. It shouldn't be something like "Oh, I did something bad so daddy made me go here." It should be a visit that makes you really think at what evil there is. There are still scratches in the walls, made with their own fingernails, in the rooms where people were tortured. You can see a pile of ash there, dozens of feet tall.

I'm not attacking you, I just wanted to point this out.

if he is really sincere about going, then i think its a good thing. i mean if you think about it what he did was stupid, not necessarily wrong/criminal.

 

[3Memos]

To err is human, to forgive, divine. He apologized, end of thread, nothing to see here.

 

[Xtremehkr]

Just think of all of things the UK would be able to do if it wasn't subsidizing the Royal Family?

If they disappeared tomorrow, would anything really change?

William is very photogenic, but really, what is he going to do for anything?

Royalty in Europe are like a third nipple, interesting, but completely worthless really.

 

[kettle]

Just think of all of things the UK would be able to do if it wasn't subsidizing the Royal Family?

Probably subsidising an even larger less controllable bureaucracy in its place.

The good thing about a Monarchy is it has a lot less avenues of corruption than regular representatives of power. I think it's quite cost effective compared to other systems.

I wonder how may people would actually like another "House" in our monarchy rather than an end of Monarchy.

 

[spikeovsky]

Probably subsidising an even larger less controllable bureaucracy in its place.

The good thing about a Monarchy is it has a lot less avenues of corruption than regular representatives of power. I think it's quite cost effective compared to other systems.

I wonder how may people would actually like another "House" in our monarchy rather than an end of Monarchy.

I agree - if the Monarchy were to be abandoned, it's not like something wouldn't have to be created to fill in the vacuum. And anyway, she's my [Canada's] Queen too, so you'd better not get rid of her without asking!

 

[virividox]

Probably subsidising an even larger less controllable bureaucracy in its place.

The good thing about a Monarchy is it has a lot less avenues of corruption than regular representatives of power. I think it's quite cost effective compared to other systems.

I wonder how may people would actually like another "House" in our monarchy rather than an end of Monarchy.

would you even need to replace the monarchy? iv heard arguments for just abandoning the monarchy without replacement.

maybe in the future, but certainly not over this

 

[brap]

I wonder how may people would actually like another "House" in our monarchy rather than an end of Monarchy.

To do so would spell the end of our constitution (it is simply not allowed, even after 1689), and render those in place privileged governmental puppets. King Anthony the first, if you will.

Which would you rather pay for, hm?

 

[MOFS]

Vive la revolution!

Just think of all of things the UK would be able to do if it wasn't subsidizing the Royal Family?

If they disappeared tomorrow, would anything really change?

William is very photogenic, but really, what is he going to do for anything?

Royalty in Europe are like a third nipple, interesting, but completely worthless really.

I agree partly with your statement about the royals, but only to a degree. I would have no problem with them if they were in touch with their people (eg the Spanish royal family, who sent their children to state schools) or approached their populace with dignity (the Dutch royal family). I get exceedingly pissed off by Charles' disdain of modern Britain, William's constant snobbishness ("lets go to university and become head-honcho of St Andrew's Royal Golf Club") or Harry's persistent stupidity. This is probably the first time the press have let rip at Harry despite various misdimeanours, and hopefully this pulls the entire Royal Family out of their glass coccoon and into the real world. Only Anne has shown any sense of sense, and perhaps Fergie and Andrew by trying to remain together for the kids, but I for one wouldn't be unhappy if they suddenly all left the country.

 

[Jimong5]

I don't have that much of a problem with it, because i see there's a natural distain against the NAZI party, mainly because they were our enemy. I found this about our great allies in WWII, the soviets.

The monstrous Union of Soviet Socialist Republics killed 62 million people, three times as many millions of people as did the National Socialist German Workers' Party (21 million). However, any Google news search on any date will show similar results to the random date above: that the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is referenced 486 times, or one-twelfth the number of times (5,740) of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.* The use of the full phrase "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics" is once in every five uses of the abbreviation "U.S.S.R."* The use of the full phrase "National Socialist German Workers' Party" is once in every 1900 uses of the abbreviation "Nazi."

I'm willing to bet that if he went in a soviet uniform, the uproar would have been non-existant, even though stalin killed more, started a 40 year cold war, the korean war, the vietnam war, and now is responsible for installing north korea, a nuclear enabled place with no respect for its citizens.

oh, but he was our ally in WWII. thats ok.

 

[MOFS]

Genocide, anyone?

I don't have that much of a problem with it, because i see there's a natural distain against the NAZI party, mainly because they were our enemy. I found this about our great allies in WWII, the soviets.



I'm willing to bet that if he went in a soviet uniform, the uproar would have been non-existant, even though stalin killed more, started a 40 year cold war, the korean war, the vietnam war, and now is responsible for installing north korea, a nuclear enabled place with no respect for its citizens.

oh, but he was our ally in WWII. thats ok.

Actually, I believe the main thing is that the Nazis instigated a ruthless genocide of not just the Jews, but also homosexuals, gypsies, the mentally handicapped and the deformed, to say the least. At this point of time, at approximately the 60th anniversary of the closing of Auchwitz, for anyone of any political importance (however small or young) to be doing something that makes a mockery of these facts is seen to be doing something horrific.

Perosonally I don't think anyone should dress up as any mad dictator (Stalin, Hitler - even Saddam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden) at a fancy dress party. As a decent part of satire, maybe, but I wouldn't say dressing up as a nazi is fancy dress.

 

[iMurc]

Well, Harry seems like the type of person who would say that famous German Saying "Erzähl mir keine Märchen" that means: "Don't pi$$ down my back and tell me it's raining!"... He just simply has no common seances when it comes to things like that... That was total in appropriate and you'd think that a person such as him would know better... Well, I will admit I too have done complete dumb things too, but well not something that dumb.

Well, it seems he has "dran glauben müssen" (he has his "@$$ on the line") with some very important people... I still can not believe that one would not know something line that is not only politicly incorrect but complete dumb.

 

[njmac]

The royal family is NOT supported by taxpayers, they haven't been for some time now.

On the other hand, they bring in tens of millions of dollars for England (tourist related)

 

[Xtremehkr]

What exactly do the royal family do? They've done a good job of preserving themselves but constantly prove that they are all too human.

Just look at Prince Phillip, despite the titles, uniforms and supposed good breeding, the guy is a complete ass.

 

[Xtremehkr]

The royal family is NOT supported by taxpayers, they haven't been for some time now.

On the other hand, they bring in tens of millions of dollars for England (tourist related)

No?

According to the same link though they generate more than they cost as a tourist attraction. That's kind of sad in a way.

 

[Blue Velvet]

On the other hand, they bring in tens of millions of dollars for England (tourist related)

People come here for the history and the sights. If there wasn't a monarch in Buckingham Palace people would still queue to see it... don't people tour the White House? No royals there...

But more importantly, this is not an valid argument for deciding upon a system of government and society...

 

[rogerw]

come the day of the revolution!

 

[Xtremehkr]

Yeah, I doubt it would matter whether there are Royals there or not. Hearst Castle was interesting without W.R. being there.

 

[Mechcozmo]

if he is really sincere about going, then i think its a good thing. i mean if you think about it what he did was stupid, not necessarily wrong/criminal.

I know that he did a stupid thing. I know he apologized. But if he just looks at this as punishment, as a stupid trip dad is making him do, then that is wrong on so many levels. If he goes to the death camps with a more open mind than he did that party, and he really sees what went on there, then thats good. That shows that he understands something. But if he goes to whatever death camp it is and makes a comment, he will catch so much hell for it.

 

[rainman::|:|]

okay, while i'll agree that this was a pretty stupid thing to do, i don't think it's worth raking him over the coals for. He made a bad decision, but kept out of the military academy? i may not be jewish, but i am gay, and a lot of my people were murdered in those same concentration camps... but quite frankly, i don't know what Harry was thinking, and i don't know the circumstances. Perhaps in proper context, he meant no disrespect at all. That's what seems to be missing, intent. If he had appeared on national television, instead of a private party, wearing such an outfit, sure he'd be trying to cause trouble.

As i recall, the problem with the Nazi's wasn't their uniforms; it was the mass slaughtering. Until Harry advocates that, I don't think the guy should be punished.

And I'm deeply troubled by the calls for a ban on nazi symbols in Europe. How much artwork will be rendered illegal because of a kneejerk reaction? Surely there are bigger anti-sematic issues to be dealt with than mere symbolism...

 

[Blue Velvet]

....Surely there are bigger anti-sematic issues to be dealt with than mere symbolism...

Symbols are the most potent carrier of ideas.

The words, the very letters that you read at this moment are all symbols.
The dreams you have at night are expressed symbols.

Language is symbolism – the sounds you make with your mouth are audible representations of your ideas...

Sorry for getting carried away – but any designer knows the value of symbols... the phrase 'rallying around the flag' means a lot...

And this is what Harry was messing with...

 

[rainman::|:|]

Symbols are the most potent carrier of ideas.

The words, the very letters that you read at this moment are all symbols.
The dreams you have at night are expressed symbols.

Language is symbolism – the sounds you make with your mouth are audible representations of your ideas...

Sorry for getting carried away – but any designer knows the value of symbols... the phrase 'rallying around the flag' means a lot...

And this is what Harry was messing with...

At least in the US, the current situation aside, we know that in order to maintain a free society, symbols (and moreso the ideas that they represent) shouldn't be punishable... actions should. Why not spend this energy combatting the anti-sematism that's so widely reported in France, rather than squabbling about a private party that shouldn't have even been public.

How many of us here have done things that, if broadcast on national news, would convey an image much more sinister than originally intended? I know he has to be held to a higher standard, because he's a powerless figurehead (ok, that might be a cheapshot) but if there's one thing that family has shown us, it's that even royalty makes embarassing mistakes from time to time. I don't think it's fair to bar him from entering the academy because of a childish blunder... A lot of 20-year-old princes have done a lot worse...