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either way, by and large i dont think anyone can disagree that the iphone IS GENERALLY pretty much aimed towards the 'teenagers/housewives' crowd.

Sure they can. By dint of the fact that most of the people that I know who own one tend to be techs/geeks, and most of the people I know who don't fall into that category have limited interest in the iPhone outside of novelty. My sample set may be every bit as skewed as yours, but it still makes the lie of your statement above.

But then:

not literally,

What's the point of throwing out massive generalizations, then not even having the balls to stick with them?

but just people who want a simple device with novelty apps and can play a bunch of crappy games.

Or people who just want to browse the web, send emails, check stocks and currency rates, and maybe buy an album or two from a device that also happens to be their phone? Kinda just like all the other smart phones, only without the piss irritating user interfaces.

when something completely useless and stupid like 'koi pond' becomes the top app for weeks on end, then you know what your main crowd is like...

That would be what is commonly known as a specious argument. Firstly, you've made no effort to consider the effect that the iPod Touch might have on app sales. You're trying to use the app store to prove that the iPhone has a target audience, and utterly ignore the device that *clearly* has a target audience?

As it happens, I own a Touch, and I don't fit the 'funnest ever' market base. Mine is actually loaded with all kinds of tools (many IT related). Oh, I also have Koi Pond. Why? 'Cos it amuses me. Someone else may have a completely different set of none teenanger/housewife[1] apps, and also have Koi Pond. All that tells you is that Koi Pond serves (as novelties generally do) as an intersection between groups of people with other generally different interests. Trying to draw any inference from Koi Pond is about as useless as trying to draw movie watching inferences from the percentage of the population who've seen Toy Story.


[1] whatever the hell those might be anyway.
 
for the third revision apple is going to introduce a software update that will only work on the third gen iphone, this update will include: copy and paste, MMS, video recording and a few other things people are clamoring for. Apple will have everyone getting rid of their 3G iphones and everyone will be lining up around corners for days all over again. Don't you guys know how the demented money hungry mind of steve jobs works by now? The mans a marketing and business genius i'll give him that.

All this based on what? The fact that an update to the 2.0 firmware wasn't available for Gen 1 owners? Oh wait, it was. So, the iPod Touch? No, wait, they provided updates for those too. I'm stumped then, you're going to need to help me out here.
 
You dont know much about programming do you?

Why would cut and paste matter at all when making an app?

Edit: and you seem to be confusing whos buying the phone with who its aimed at:everyone.

Also guess whos buying it? everyone. Its even doing swimmingly in the business market, go figure.

oh really? everyones buying the iphone huh? ok then. thats settled i guess. thanks for your useless input.
 
oh really? everyones buying the iphone huh? ok then. thats settled i guess. thanks for your useless input.

#1 selling handset in the us right now.

Selling alot better than some niche product wouldnt you say?

Yea but, you know, go ahead and disregard everyones legitamite responses as long as you can nitpick.
 
Sure they can. By dint of the fact that most of the people that I know who own one tend to be techs/geeks, and most of the people I know who don't fall into that category have limited interest in the iPhone outside of novelty. My sample set may be every bit as skewed as yours, but it still makes the lie of your statement above.

But then:



What's the point of throwing out massive generalizations, then not even having the balls to stick with them?



Or people who just want to browse the web, send emails, check stocks and currency rates, and maybe buy an album or two from a device that also happens to be their phone? Kinda just like all the other smart phones, only without the piss irritating user interfaces.



That would be what is commonly known as a specious argument. Firstly, you've made no effort to consider the effect that the iPod Touch might have on app sales. You're trying to use the app store to prove that the iPhone has a target audience, and utterly ignore the device that *clearly* has a target audience?

As it happens, I own a Touch, and I don't fit the 'funnest ever' market base. Mine is actually loaded with all kinds of tools (many IT related). Oh, I also have Koi Pond. Why? 'Cos it amuses me. Someone else may have a completely different set of none teenanger/housewife[1] apps, and also have Koi Pond. All that tells you is that Koi Pond serves (as novelties generally do) as an intersection between groups of people with other generally different interests. Trying to draw any inference from Koi Pond is about as useless as trying to draw movie watching inferences from the percentage of the population who've seen Toy Story.


[1] whatever the hell those might be anyway.

except MY sample set is based on the app store. which i'm pretty sure is much more accurate than little personal sample sets either of us can have.

and ok, maybe i didnt factor in ipod touch app sales. the fact of the matter is, both top free/paid apps are ALL crappy novelty games. and although your iphone may be filled with lots of super productive IT apps, i'd be willing to bet that the majority probably have more ibeer-type apps instead. proving that you yourself is an exception is also a completely useless and baseless argument.

and by NOT LITERALLY, i clearly don't mean only teenagers/housewives but the connotations that come with that group. no idea what you're talking about by trying to say i dont have 'the balls' to stick to that. and i'm a girl anyway so i'll give you points for being technically right.
 
#1 selling handset in the us right now.

Selling alot better than some niche product wouldnt you say?

Yea but, you know, go ahead and disregard everyones legitamite responses as long as you can nitpick.

I love my iPhone, but let's put this in perspective:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Market_share_of_mobile_os_s_2008.JPG

And this graph only represents smartphones, which themselves only represent about 10% of the entire cellphone industry and whose sales are only slowing down.

http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=754112

So, no, not everyone owns an iPhone. It may be the best selling cellphone, but remember, there are hundreds of different types of cellphones out there. You have to compare number of iPhones sold vs non-iPhones sold and you'll see that the iphone only represents a small piece of the total cellphone market.

So what this means is Apple best not become complacent. If they want everyone to have one, they have a huge task ahead of them.
 
except MY sample set is based on the app store. which i'm pretty sure is much more accurate than little personal sample sets either of us can have.

No. It's the single most useless metric there is. Since I've already explained why, I'm not going to bother doing so again.

i'd be willing to bet that the majority probably have more ibeer-type apps instead. proving that you yourself is an exception is also a completely useless and baseless argument.

Don't be daft. I only have one word processor. I only have one programming IDE. I only have one spreadsheet. Lots of big useful apps I only have one of. On the other hand my desktop PC has all kinds of small tools, novelties, a few games, and a general bias towards fun stuff. By tour math, my PC would be a toy. The fact that I spend 60+ hours a week working, and maybe 10 hours a week messing around doesn't preclude me from having plenty of things to mess around with. The same applies to my Touch. My number one most used app is the calendar. I'd be lost without it. Since I've got a few free gigs for some games, can you give me one intelligent reason why I'd chose to do without them? Or anyone else, for that matter.
 
2 years of having iphones on the market now (ok a little less) and still the same concerns we had from day one. Everything from MMS, to copy&paste have gone ignored.

Well the iphone has sold 10 + MILLION of the iphones, Apple probably thinks since they sold so many iphones that MMS, copy/paste, Turn by turn, ect. doesnt matter because, if it did consumers wouldnt have bought the iphone in the first place. I guess when the iphone starts to slow in sales then they will add those features.
 
Well the iphone has sold 10 + MILLION of the iphones, Apple probably thinks since they sold so many iphones that MMS, copy/paste, Turn by turn, ect. doesnt matter because, if it did consumers wouldnt have bought the iphone in the first place. I guess when the iphone starts to slow in sales then they will add those features.

My biggest question; is this sales rate sustainable? The bulk of this 10 million are probably fanboys and hardcore cellphone users that that were going to buy an iPhone no matter what features it had on it. The real test will be is if the iPhone will be adopted by the casual cell phone user. One quick little story, I was at work the other night when one of the nurses (who I consider to be a casual cellphone user) was showing off her Chocolate. She was as happy as a pig in poop and all the other nurses were oooohing and aaaaawwwing over it.

The Apple computer/OS X became very popular not because it could run some $900 business software, but because it is simple and it works. The average joe related to it. Apple figured out that all people wanted to do was listen to mp3s and store pictures of their kids on it and maybe do some internet surfing and word processing. And they were right - this product spoke to the people, something that Windows was failing to do.

Now, Apple has to get back to this formula with the iPhone. The average cell phone user probably won't care that it has a Stocks app on it or that it has "push" (or would even know what this is!). They're going to want YouTube, Pandora, games, and yes MMS. This last one being a potential deal breaker. Lack of MMS so far hasn't been a deal breaker yet because most of the early adopters likely aren't even hardcore MMS users. The hardcore users (average users) are still using their Chocolates and Razrs and are perfectly happy.
 
My biggest question; is this sales rate sustainable? The bulk of this 10 million are probably fanboys and hardcore cellphone users that that were going to buy an iPhone no matter what features it had on it.
True


Apple figured out that all people wanted to do was listen to mp3s and store pictures of their kids on it and maybe do some internet surfing and word processing. And they were right - this product spoke to the people, something that Windows was failing to do.

Blackberry had been doing this already, But Apple had the touch screen which made it cooler than the BB.

Now, Apple has to get back to this formula with the iPhone. The average cell phone user probably won't care that it has a Stocks app on it or that it has "push" (or would even know what this is!). They're going to want YouTube, Pandora, games, and yes MMS. This last one being a potential deal breaker. Lack of MMS so far hasn't been a deal breaker yet because most of the early adopters likely aren't even hardcore MMS users.

Me and my wife switched to AT&T a couple of months ago (employee discount), i got the iphone but she didnt want one because it didnt have MMS, and couldnt fwd messages which she is a big text messager, so that was a deal breaker for her.
.
 
you're a programmer and you prefer the iphone despite the fact that it doesn't have cut and paste?

How does programming tie in with cut and paste? Please don't tell me you think I'm coding using the onscreen keyboard itself. Would I like that feature? Yeah, if they got around to implementing it I'd probably use it. But you know what? Overall the device is so much more efficient than the other phones on the market I don't mind. See unlike people who love to get vitriolic just because of some gadget's brand, I buy my electronics based on their performance. Yes, the lack of copy and paste limits the utility of the iPhone, but the resulting loss of efficiency is nowhere near what using one of the other market-leading phones would incur. I know 'cause I've tried.

the UI of the iphone is esthetically pleasing, but if efficient to you means a bunch of icons sprawled across several screens then i'd hate to see the code you write.

I'm not a UI designer. Neither are you, but the looks of it. The UI of the iPhone is, for most task sets, the best out there for a device of that size. It becomes a problem if you've got more than 20 apps that you use on a very regular basis, but for most people it seems to do the best job of balancing flexibility, usability, and efficiency.

i'm not even sure what kind of connection you're even trying to make with being technically oriented and preferring the iphone when one of your main uses is just the mail.app.

I was responding to markgamber's idiotic claim that Windows Mobile was the platform of choice for "technically oriented" folk.

e-mail is one of my primary communication channels. I want a device that can do this well, especially since when I'm away from my computer, the last thing I want to do is spend extra time dicking around with my mail client. If I'm reading my e-mail away from my computer, I want a way to communicate efficiently. Is the UI of MobileMail.app simple? Hell yes. That's the exact reason it's so efficient to use.

are you trying to say that you code FOR the iphone as well? in that case i suppose it would make sense.

That too. Hence my (brief) comparison of Cocoa/.NET

either way, by and large i dont think anyone can disagree that the iphone IS GENERALLY pretty much aimed towards the 'teenagers/housewives' crowd.

I can. It's aimed towards the "people who've spent too much time screwing around with crappy mobile phone UIs and just want the damn thing to do voice, texts and (maybe) e-mail" demographic. Big market, as it turns out.

not literally, but just people who want a simple device with novelty apps and can play a bunch of crappy games.

Yeah, novelty apps. Like a web browser. Or an e-mail client. Or an IM program. Yes, there are games, and yes there are a lot of them. Then again, there are a lot of games available for PCs, and I don't see you claiming they're not a useful tool.

Just because a device does one set of tasks well doesn't mean it can't also be useful for another task set.

just look at the top paid/free apps in the store and you can easily find out who the majority of iphone users are. when something completely useless and stupid like 'koi pond' becomes the top app for weeks on end, then you know what your main crowd is like...

Is the internet useless because Chocolate ****ing Rain was an internet sensation?

Also, I should remind you: many of the main selling points (i.e. the phone, text, e-mail, and browsing apps) come bundled with the phone itself.
 
you're a programmer and you prefer the iphone despite the fact that it doesn't have cut and paste? the UI of the iphone is esthetically pleasing, but if efficient to you means a bunch of icons sprawled across several screens then i'd hate to see the code you write.

i'm not even sure what kind of connection you're even trying to make with being technically oriented and preferring the iphone when one of your main uses is just the mail.app. are you trying to say that you code FOR the iphone as well? in that case i suppose it would make sense.

either way, by and large i dont think anyone can disagree that the iphone IS GENERALLY pretty much aimed towards the 'teenagers/housewives' crowd. not literally, but just people who want a simple device with novelty apps and can play a bunch of crappy games. just look at the top paid/free apps in the store and you can easily find out who the majority of iphone users are. when something completely useless and stupid like 'koi pond' becomes the top app for weeks on end, then you know what your main crowd is like...

Are you serious?
 
You dont know much about programming do you?

Why would cut and paste matter at all when making an app?

Edit: and you seem to be confusing whos buying the phone with who its aimed at:everyone.

Also guess whos buying it? everyone. Its even doing swimmingly in the business market, go figure.

It does well in the business market, but it's not a business phone.

Until it has a couple more capabilities (or even buyable apps), it's not a true "business phone." I still can't email files, download emailed files, or create/edit MS Word/Excel files (or DocsToGo). I'm constantly out of the office, and I don't want to drag a laptop with me. I was spoiled by having everything I needed (except an iPod) with my Treo 750 with WM.

I have an iPhone, but the features that are lacking make this less of a phone and more of a toy. I like it, but I hesitate to be satisfied until I have those capabilities.
 
It does well in the business market, but it's not a business phone.

Until it has a couple more capabilities (or even buyable apps), it's not a true "business phone." I still can't email files, download emailed files, or create/edit MS Word/Excel files (or DocsToGo). I'm constantly out of the office, and I don't want to drag a laptop with me. I was spoiled by having everything I needed (except an iPod) with my Treo 750 with WM.

I have an iPhone, but the features that are lacking make this less of a phone and more of a toy. I like it, but I hesitate to be satisfied until I have those capabilities.

The most popular "business phone" is the BlackBerry and it doesn't natively support editing of Office files. Apple also needs to support something like the BES that allows centralized management of these devices, specifically security policies. Perhaps such an iPhone/BES server exists now, I have not checked into it. Even if it does, just being as good as the BES is not going to be enough to get large organizations to switch from BlackBerrys to the iPhone. It's a lot of work, i.e., costly, to change infrastructure in a company and BlackBerrys are part of the infrastructure. Simply adding the ability to edit Office files is far from a sufficient reason to switch.
 
The most popular "business phone" is the BlackBerry and it doesn't natively support editing of Office files. Apple also needs to support something like the BES that allows centralized management of these devices, specifically security policies. Perhaps such an iPhone/BES server exists now, I have not checked into it. Even if it does, just being as good as the BES is not going to be enough to get large organizations to switch from BlackBerrys to the iPhone. It's a lot of work, i.e., costly, to change infrastructure in a company and BlackBerrys are part of the infrastructure. Simply adding the ability to edit Office files is far from a sufficient reason to switch.


I think you can edit office files with Documents To Go on BB.
 
this entire thread is silly

the iphone is just like a mac

it's basic enough for anyone to use, but it has the ability to be used in a much more professional, high level sense

it is not "aimed" at one specific group, the app store is so wide spread it's impossible for the ENTIRE thing to be aimed anywhere


also, just because you can program in assembly doesn't automatically make you a computer god.
 
Sais the sales figures. If the iPhone was aimed at geeks, would it sell as good as it does? The iPhone sells as good as it does because it is aimed at normal people who wants to have a "smartphone".

I'm a geek who has a iPhone.

Also, its too expensive for teenagers.
 
.....

....

10 million fanboys?


Your joking right?

You can't read right?

I said 10 million fanboys AND cellphone enthusiasts (people who must have the latest cellphone no matter what it is).

Considering the world's population currently is 6.7 Billion and about 1 Billion cellphones are sold in the world annually, 10 Million is a relatively small percentage of total cellphones sold.
 
You knew it didn't have MMS or Copy/Paste. Why'd you buy it? These posts are getting old! Like that one person said, Apple will finally add Copy/Paste and MMS , but people will fine something else to complain about and then keep it going. IT'S A NEVER ENDING CYCLE! You don't like the iPhone, get rid of it.
 
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