Has Apple lost its cool to Samsung?

[AppleScruff1]

I never said anything was legitimate. You filling in the blanks again to bolster another baseless argument.

Now you playing dumb trying to play like Samsung didn't copy Apple on things. How you conveniently left GOLD color choice, home button, finger print reader, and let's not even talk about the ongoing litigation that you are completely ignoring.

I'm not gonna waste anymore time on you.

My points are valid. If you think Samsung copied products and features that Apple doesn't even make or offer, so be it. I've read the articles here about the litigation cases. Apple keeps a close eye on what Samsung and Google are doing.

But at least you're objective. Not.

 

[Shanghaichica]

With a lens I could see pixels on every device, even on my Nexus 7 .... But the point is: everything about 300 PPI on a portable device is enough to be defined as good.
Every unbiased analysis showed that.
Sony Xperia Z1 Compact is a 4.3" high end device, and its display is 720P, not an 1080P.
Why ? Because with that resolution it has 340 PPI pixel density, more than enough. 1080P would be just over killing ...
Is it my opinion ? No, it is the opinion of everyone who is unbiased, like this reviewer:

However, when you think about it, 1080p would've been an overkill on a 4.3" screen, adding to the battery drain rather than the image quality. And with the reduced screen consumption the smaller battery shouldn't be an issue either - it's as big as what the Xperia Z offered anyway.

The Sony Xperia Z1 Compact comes with a 4.3" Triluminous display backed up by the company's proprietary X-reality engine. On paper, 720p resolution sounds like a serious step down from the full-HD screen of the regular Z1, but at this size it still results in the more than pleasing 342ppi.
So the screen is tack-sharp and you wouldn't really feel any downgrade at all - in fact 1080p would probably have been an overkill at this screen size, and a strain on the battery.

I don't think anyone is arguing for a 1080p screen on a 4.3 inch device. That doesn't mean that 1080p isn't appropriate for devices with larger displays.

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My points are valid. If you think Samsung copied products and features that Apple doesn't even make or offer, so be it. I've read the articles here about the litigation cases. Apple keeps a close eye on what Samsung and Google are doing.

But at least you're objective. Not.

I think Apple themselves think that Samsung have copied products that Apple themselves don't make

 

[TheHateMachine]

You can change saturation, but you can't calibrate your display with the "great TouchWiz"

Are you going to be so petty as to argue that adjusting saturation does not fall under display calibration when it is something that effects the accuracy of color tones?

Also, why did you put Great TouchWiz in quotes?

 

[Fireblade]

Max, do you have or want a job in Apple's marketing team?
Most of your postings sounds like from an Apple booklet.

 

[Max(IT)]

I don't think anyone is arguing for a 1080p screen on a 4.3 inch device. That doesn't mean that 1080p isn't appropriate for devices with larger displays.

They are, absolutely. I'm saying that since the start of the discussion: it is all related to pixel density. On a 5.5" display 1080P are appropriate and needed.

 

[Technarchy]

They are, absolutely. I'm saying that since the start of the discussion: it is all related to pixel density. On a 5.5" display 1080P are appropriate and needed.

Keep in mind that mobile displays are following A/V displays, not odd PC or game console resolutions. 720p and 1080p make the most sense in terms of standards.

 

[Max(IT)]

Are you going to be so petty as to argue that adjusting saturation does not fall under display calibration when it is something that effects the accuracy of color tones?

Also, why did you put Great TouchWiz in quotes?

Because TouchWiz is the worst piece of crapware even programmed ...

Saturation is just ONE of many parameters that define a display calibration, and on galaxy S4 there were several you cannot change.
There is a huge improvement in s5's display related to s4's, and now Samsung has a truly good screen in it's Galaxy S flagship.

 

[AppleScruff1]

With a lens I could see pixels on every device, even on my Nexus 7 .... But the point is: everything about 300 PPI on a portable device is enough to be defined as good.
Every unbiased analysis showed that.
Sony Xperia Z1 Compact is a 4.3" high end device, and its display is 720P, not an 1080P.
Why ? Because with that resolution it has 340 PPI pixel density, more than enough. 1080P would be just over killing ...
Is it my opinion ? No, it is the opinion of everyone who is unbiased, like this reviewer:

However, when you think about it, 1080p would've been an overkill on a 4.3" screen, adding to the battery drain rather than the image quality. And with the reduced screen consumption the smaller battery shouldn't be an issue either - it's as big as what the Xperia Z offered anyway.

The Sony Xperia Z1 Compact comes with a 4.3" Triluminous display backed up by the company's proprietary X-reality engine. On paper, 720p resolution sounds like a serious step down from the full-HD screen of the regular Z1, but at this size it still results in the more than pleasing 342ppi.
So the screen is tack-sharp and you wouldn't really feel any downgrade at all - in fact 1080p would probably have been an overkill at this screen size, and a strain on the battery.

I'm in no way saying that the iPhone screen isn't good. I've been replying to a user who stated that Apple will never use a higher resolution screen or make a water resistant iPhone. I think there are a few phones today who have at least as good as and even better than the current iPhone. Again, this doesn't mean the iPhone has a bad screen, it doesn't. IMO, I think the Nokia Lumia Icon has one of the nicer screens. The HTC M8 and the Galaxy S5 are a few others.

This thread has gone a little off course and turned into a discussion about 720p vs 1080p. I originally entered this thread stating that I didn't think Apple was losing its cool to Samsung, I think they are losing it on their own. Great products, but not so cool anymore. IMO, they are far too mainstream to fit the definition of cool or unique.

 

[Max(IT)]

Max, do you have or want a job in Apple's marketing team?
Most of your postings sounds like from an Apple booklet.

I'm not even speaking about Apple here ... And there is nothing related to the marketing in my posts: display calibration and pixel density are very objective and technical matters.

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Keep in mind that mobile displays are following A/V displays, not odd PC or game console resolutions. 720p and 1080p make the most sense in terms of standards.

True, but that doesn't change facts: resolution always is related to screen dimensions.
1080P is something "needed" only when screen dimensions are so big that pixel density could drop below 300 PPI using lower resolution.
This is my only point on the matter.

An iPhone 5 or a z1 compact doesn't need 1080P.
A note 3 or even a galaxy S5 does need it.

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I'm in no way saying that the iPhone screen isn't good. I've been replying to a user who stated that Apple will never use a higher resolution screen or make a water resistant iPhone. I think there are a few phones today who have at least as good as and even better than the current iPhone. Again, this doesn't mean the iPhone has a bad screen, it doesn't. IMO, I think the Nokia Lumia Icon has one of the nicer screens. The HTC M8 and the Galaxy S5 are a few others.

This thread has gone a little off course and turned into a discussion about 720p vs 1080p. I originally entered this thread stating that I didn't think Apple was losing its cool to Samsung, I think they are losing it on their own. Great products, but not so cool anymore. IMO, they are far too mainstream to fit the definition of cool or unique.

Well, I agree with most of what you have written here.
Apple is going to use higher resolution, I'm pretty sure about that, in the moment they will use a bigger display (iPhone 6 ? Probably ...). All the "retina" marketing was based on pixel density, and they have to raise resolution if they are going to use a 4.7" panel (not to speak about a 5.5" display).
I don't know about water resistant certification, mostly because I don't care about it.
There are screens as good as iPhone's on the market, for sure (Galaxy S5's is one of them).

Apple is loosing its "coolness" ? I don't know. To be honest I don't even know what the "coolness" really is .... I just know that Apple is selling more and more units at every iteration, and (crazy) people are still making long queues at every launch. But I don't really care.

What I do care is: will be the iPhone 6 a significant upgrade over iPhone 5S ? Will Apple take prices under the actual level , that is high enough ?
Those are my main concerns right now.

 

[gotluck]

They are, absolutely. I'm saying that since the start of the discussion: it is all related to pixel density. On a 5.5" display 1080P are appropriate and needed.

I dont recall anyone saying this.

It all started when someone claimed 1080p smart phones are a marketing gimmick. Not that 1080p 4" or 4.3"screens are a marketing gimmick, no one is arguing against that.

 

[bnmcj1]

This is the practical demonstration that marketing works ...
You can easily discern pixels on an iPhone 5s while you have difficulties to do that on 1080p display.
Well the note 3 display has 1080p resolution and a PPI number similar to iPhone 5s "low resolution screen", and the note 3 uses PenTile matrix vs full RGB of iPhone's screen. So what you said is just not true , but you are convinced about that because Samsung told you

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And if you really think that 64-bits armv8 architectural advantage is only related to memory addressing you do need to take a look at Anandtech website ...

You could not be more wrong. GOSH! You do not hold a Note 3 as close to your face as a small device. That is also true for S4. I will say it again: I can see the pixels on my 5s and I hold that tiny screen very close while laying sideways reading in bed. You know the Retina term is a matter of pixel density at a distance, right?

 

[Max(IT)]

I dont recall anyone saying this.

It all started when someone claimed 1080p smart phones are a marketing gimmick. Not that 1080p 4" or 4.3"screens are a marketing gimmick, no one is arguing against that.

1080P becomes a gimmick when the marketing machine is using it to bash another product.
I mean, how many times on this forum did you read someone saying "my XYZ phone is better than your iPhone because is 1080P and your isn't " ?
In this case the 1080P discussion is just a marketing BS used by someone who doesn't understand what pixel density is.

But if you speak about 1080P on the latest Samsung flagship, well, it is absolutely fine and needed.

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You could not be more wrong. GOSH! You do not hold a Note 3 as close to your face as a small device. That is also true for S4. I will say it again: I can see the pixels on my 5s and I hold that tiny screen very close while laying sideways reading in bed. You know the Retina term is a matter of pixel density at a distance, right?

You are the practical demonstration of marketing BS ....
Note 3 isn't ten times bigger than an iPhone .... We are speaking about a device that is roughly 1.5" bigger, so you basically keep them at the same distance from your eyes (it is just a little difference) during the normal use.
We are not speaking about a 15" notebook compared to a smartphone. We are speaking about two smartphones.

"I can see pixels on my 5S" is just a ridiculous nonsense, speaking about a 330 PPI display.

 

[gotluck]

1080P becomes a gimmick when the marketing machine is using it to bash another product.
I mean, how many times on this forum did you read someone saying "my XYZ phone is better than your iPhone because is 1080P and your isn't " ?
In this case the 1080P discussion is just a marketing BS used by someone who doesn't understand what pixel density is.

But if you speak about 1080P on the latest Samsung flagship, well, it is absolutely fine and needed.

Well I still maintain that people say its better because its 1080p AND 5"

From what I've seen Samsung likes to brag equally about the size of the screen

And they don't make any 4" - 4.7" 1080p devices I believe

 

[Max(IT)]

Well I still maintain that people say its better because its 1080p AND 5"

Being 5" isn't better in absolute.
It could be better FOR YOU.
For someone else it could be worse because he doesn't need/want a pan to carry around all the day.
Different people, different tastes.

I absolutely don't want a 5" smartphone as my primary device (I can have it as my secondary phone, since I'm not always carry it with me).

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Well I still maintain that people say its better because its 1080p AND 5"

From what I've seen Samsung likes to brag equally about the size of the screen

And they don't make any 4" - 4.7" 1080p devices I believe

Samsung doesn't sell any "decent" <4.5" device, unfortunately.
The Mini version are just downgraded smartphones like the s4 Mini, that doesn't even reach the 260 PPI density.

 

[gotluck]

Of course it's not better in absolute but certainly people can have reason to claim it is best

 

[Max(IT)]

Of course it's not better in absolute but certainly people can have reason to claim it is best

With the same rationale some people could say it is better to have a 6.2" device like a z1 Ultra instead of a "tiny 5.1" s5, and others could say a 3.1" Galaxy Trios is the right phone for their needs.

This is the reason why when I make comparison I try to use objective data like color gamut, sunlight readability and color precision.

 

[Lava Lamp Freak]

You could not be more wrong. GOSH! You do not hold a Note 3 as close to your face as a small device. That is also true for S4. I will say it again: I can see the pixels on my 5s and I hold that tiny screen very close while laying sideways reading in bed. You know the Retina term is a matter of pixel density at a distance, right?

"I can see pixels on my 5S" is just a ridiculous nonsense, speaking about a 330 PPI display.

I can see the pixels, too. Not everyone has perfect vision. I had Lasik years ago and test at 20/10. I may see things that others don't.

At 326 ppi, the iPhone is "retina" for most people at 12 to 15 inches, but some of us have better than average vision, and it isn't "retina" for us unless we push it further away than our normal viewing distance.

When I hold the Nexus 5 at the viewing distance that feels comfortable to me, I don't see the pixels around the edge of text and icons, but when using the iPhone at the viewing distance that feels comfortable to me, I do. If I hold the iPhone farther away, I don't see that any more. I hold my iPhone about 11 inches away from my eyes. I just measured to be certain. The Nexus 5 I hold a little further away because it's larger.

For pictures and video, you wouldn't notice the difference in a higher resolution screen at 4 inches, but for text, the iPhone could benefit from at least a 720p screen.

 

[Shanghaichica]

1080P becomes a gimmick when the marketing machine is using it to bash another product.
I mean, how many times on this forum did you read someone saying "my XYZ phone is better than your iPhone because is 1080P and your isn't " ?
In this case the 1080P discussion is just a marketing BS used by someone who doesn't understand what pixel density is.

But if you speak about 1080P on the latest Samsung flagship, well, it is absolutely fine and needed.

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You are the practical demonstration of marketing BS ....
Note 3 isn't ten times bigger than an iPhone .... We are speaking about a device that is roughly 1.5" bigger, so you basically keep them at the same distance from your eyes (it is just a little difference) during the normal use.
We are not speaking about a 15" notebook compared to a smartphone. We are speaking about two smartphones.

"I can see pixels on my 5S" is just a ridiculous nonsense, speaking about a 330 PPI display.

Those phones with a 1080p display can play full HD video natively. The iPhone 5/5S has to downscale it. That could be one criteria for saying that a phone with a 1080p screen is better.

 

[mib1800]

It is funny some of you just argue about screen here like all are using the same technology.

Put an amoled side by side with an lcd and I bet 80% would prefer the amoled screen.

 

[Technarchy]

It is funny some of you just argue about screen here like all are using the same technology.

Put an amoled side by side with an lcd and I bet 80% would prefer the amoled screen.

Now. Maybe even last year. Prior, hell no. AMOLED was terrible then. The S3 screen is utterly atrocious.

The iPhone 5 screen is still competitively sharp, bright and, well calibrated. The S3 screen, released the same year as the iPhone 5, gets piss poor marks whenever added to a Displaymate comparison.

 

[mclld]

This is a neckbeard royal rumble if I ever saw one

 

[Lava Lamp Freak]

Here is an example of what I see with text on the iPhone 5 vs the Nexus 5. What I'm describing when I say I see can pixels is aliasing on text and icons.

As you can see, text is noticeably sharper on the Droid DNA when compared to other displays.

At a normal viewing distance I am able to see this difference in use. I don't see aliasing on the Nexus 5 at all. It looks super sharp to me. The iPhone 5 also looks super sharp if I push it away from my face a little past where I normally use it at, but at where I normally use it at, I am constantly noticing aliasing around text. I didn't use to notice it, but after seeing a 5-inch 1080p screen I'm always aware of the aliasing.

 

[tjl3]

Here is an example of what I see with text on the iPhone 5 vs the Nexus 5. What I'm describing when I say I see can pixels is aliasing on text and icons.

As you can see, text is noticeably sharper on the Droid DNA when compared to other displays.

At a normal viewing distance I am able to see this difference in use. I don't see aliasing on the Nexus 5 at all. It looks super sharp to me. The iPhone 5 also looks super sharp if I push it away from my face a little past where I normally use it at, but at where I normally use it at, I am constantly noticing aliasing around text. I didn't use to notice it, but after seeing a 5-inch 1080p screen I'm always aware of the aliasing.

Do you own a 4k tv, just curious Anyway, not disputing anything u said. I have average vision.

 

[Vegastouch]

I dont see a Nexus 5 on that list of texts.

 

[Lava Lamp Freak]

Do you own a 4k tv, just curious Anyway, not disputing anything u said. I have average vision.

It's on my list of things to buy. I've seen them though and am very impressed at how close you can sit and the picture still be sharp.

I dont see a Nexus 5 on that list of texts.

I was using the DNA to demonstrate a 1080p screen. It's close to the same PPI as the Nexus 5.