Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Have you ever made a serious attempt at suicide?
- Thread starter dogbone
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
The last thing I can say is:
Depression is something you can not control. you dont make the choice to be depressed. people suffer from depression, it's something you can not whatsoever control. i know. i dont' want to be in this state of mind - i want to be happy, energetic, wanting to live everyday and not having suicidal thoughts more than three times every day. and you can get into such a bad state of mind that you can only think suicide is the only option. the only one.
i know. and those of you who are being asshats, you obviously haven't suffered from depression.
Depression is something you can not control. you dont make the choice to be depressed. people suffer from depression, it's something you can not whatsoever control. i know. i dont' want to be in this state of mind - i want to be happy, energetic, wanting to live everyday and not having suicidal thoughts more than three times every day. and you can get into such a bad state of mind that you can only think suicide is the only option. the only one.
i know. and those of you who are being asshats, you obviously haven't suffered from depression.
plinkoman said:
Not everyone has access to those. Asking for help is one of the hardest things to do in life. Asking for help for something this dark and serious, when you have to be happy and sunny on the outside can be almost impossible, and unbearable to think about.
Different situations exist for all. Leaving the environment isn't possible. Medication is expensive. Therapy is expensive. When you've reached your lowest point, you don't want to spend $150/hour trying to fix it.
lilstewart said:
ok, that may be so, but i never presumed to be an expert on depression, as it is something i have never lived through personally. and maybe everything i said was incorrect, but if you go back and read what i said; maybe I'm wrong, and maybe i don't understand it because i haven't been through it, but how am i being an asshat? all i was doing was adding my .02 cents to the discussion, as i've said over and over, i'm not trying to offend anyone at all and I'm sorry if you took it that way.
**KEY POINT**katie ta achoo said:
I, am just lucky enough to have both of those: medicine and therapy.
some aren't as fortunate, some are more fortunate
wasn't pointed at specifically you, pointed at those who are saying the selfish bullshiz and all that, saying that there's more to it when they don't even fracking know.plinkoman said:
then don't act like it.plinkoman said:
<-- and that's directed at everyone who are being the now defined asshats.
L
Lau
Guest
Incidentally, saying depression can be "cured" by taking drugs or having therapy isn't exactly true. That's like saying "Well, how could he kill himself because he was in crippling physical pain for 20 years? He could have taken some painkillers". Mental pain is as real and as painful as physical pain, and therefore as complex (or if not more so) than physical pain. Hence the fact that drugs help some and not others, and the therapy helps some and not others, and so on.
lilstewart said:then don't act like it.
i wasn't acting like it, quite the contrary. i think i put a disclaimer stating i had no experience on the subject on just about all of my posts.
all i was doing in this thread was stating my opinion on the subject and adding to the discussion, just like any other thread. i will go as far as saying i think i'm being treated a little unfairly by some of the people in here for doing so. if someone with experience wants to correct me on something i said, please, go right ahead, but does everyone have to be such a jerk about it?
When you look at it from the outside you can say that clinical depression can be treated, but that may not be apparent from the inside whether it is because the person just doesn't know about all the treatment options, because it's been going on for years and nothing has changed or because the mental illness just doesn't let that kind of rational thought stick.plinkoman said:
Physical pain, to change a detail from my comparison, could also be imagined to be treatable to temporarily take away some of the pain, and at least I would still feel a tremendous amount of sympathy for that person. Enough to empathize if that person wanted to die, without labeling him as the most selfish person ever.
And you may have seen that I also think that suicide in general is a selfish act, but I can easily think of cases where the selfishness of the act isn't the first thing that strikes me about the case.
I agree that the example you brought up with suicide as the result of jealousy and heartbrokenness is more selfish and very unfair to the heart-breaker, but I can still think about a lot of acts that people can do that I find more despicable and selfish (rape, hate violence, etc.).
plinkoman said:
This is just a really touchy subject.
Even a post that isn't directed at anyone in particular can feel like it's being told to just yourself.
This thread could go on to discuss (civilly) suicide and we could all learn a lot, but I think we all need to take a step away from the keyboard, grab some sparkling water and take a deep breath.
Never actually tried doing anything, but I seriously considered it a great deal when I was middle school (7th grade mainly, and the summer before 8th grade). I hate to think back on those days, as I was so immensely miserable from now what I realize were uber-stupid reasons.
I'm glad I didn't, naturally. Just goes to show you how much one can miss. I look back on all I've done over the past two-three years; and the amazing people who I've been blessed to cross paths with, and I hate to think how it might not have even happened if I chose suicide. Even while I might get depressed at times, I just could never bring myself to ever even think about suicide again because I know how much possibility lays before me. Really, anything I ever could want to accomplish could be achieved with enough dedication. The idea that all that is ended by one's own free will makes me sick to my stomach.
I'm glad I didn't, naturally. Just goes to show you how much one can miss. I look back on all I've done over the past two-three years; and the amazing people who I've been blessed to cross paths with, and I hate to think how it might not have even happened if I chose suicide. Even while I might get depressed at times, I just could never bring myself to ever even think about suicide again because I know how much possibility lays before me. Really, anything I ever could want to accomplish could be achieved with enough dedication. The idea that all that is ended by one's own free will makes me sick to my stomach.
I'm sorry if you feel that we give you an undeservedly hard rap, but in the first post you made you did start your sentences like this "i also agree with those that say suicide is extremely selfish..." when it appears now that what you really mean is "i also agree with those that say suicide can be extremely selfish...".plinkoman said:
It's all in the wording.
Some posters seem to be making the assumption that everyone who's attempted/commited suicide is just "unhappy" as opposed to actually suffering from a mental or physical illness. I agree that there are many attempted/commited suicides done by people who lack the perspective or maturity to understand that their current situation falls into the "permanent solution to a temporary problem" category. But there are people who have mental/physical problems that render them clinically depressed and/or suicidal. And telling those people to just "suck it up" is akin to telling a diabetic to quit being an "insulin taking p@ssy."
A friend of mine was bipolar and committed suicide a week after our college graduation. He was getting help, he was on meds, but one day his warped version of reality got the best of him. How can I call him selfish?
Many/most people who suffer from Multiple Sclerosis are diagnosed as Clinically Depressed because, due to the effects of their illness, their brain's don't work like they should and as a result they are depressed. They aren't sad that their dog died, or because they got dumped. They are clinically depressed because part of their brain is malfunctioning thus making them unable to be happy.
It's kind of hard to "get over it" when it's impossible to "get over it" because your brain is malfunctioning.
Lethal
A friend of mine was bipolar and committed suicide a week after our college graduation. He was getting help, he was on meds, but one day his warped version of reality got the best of him. How can I call him selfish?
Many/most people who suffer from Multiple Sclerosis are diagnosed as Clinically Depressed because, due to the effects of their illness, their brain's don't work like they should and as a result they are depressed. They aren't sad that their dog died, or because they got dumped. They are clinically depressed because part of their brain is malfunctioning thus making them unable to be happy.
It's kind of hard to "get over it" when it's impossible to "get over it" because your brain is malfunctioning.
Lethal
Glad you didn't succeed. We'd miss you...Blue Velvet said:
I've never tried - never considered it...Saw my mum try it a couple of times though. Not a whole load of fun TBH...walking your mum around trying to stop her going to sleep....
a) People, don't try to be funny in this thread. I'm not saying that you're being cruel or insensitive or something, but it's probs not going to be well recieved.
b) I've thought about suicide fleetingly, have never carried out. I get depressed in hour-2 hour spurts that are horrid but then I get great.
Like, I'm really happy now.
And I'm not manic-depressive, btw. I already addressed that scenario.... I just have normal mood swings mostly, from hormones, school, etc.
EDIT: My personal views on suicide, sure it could be looked on as selfish, but you can't blame people that so it. They're depressed. Not actively trying to be selfish.
It's ones own personal choice. You don't know how it is to be the person.
b) I've thought about suicide fleetingly, have never carried out. I get depressed in hour-2 hour spurts that are horrid but then I get great.
Like, I'm really happy now.
And I'm not manic-depressive, btw. I already addressed that scenario.... I just have normal mood swings mostly, from hormones, school, etc.
EDIT: My personal views on suicide, sure it could be looked on as selfish, but you can't blame people that so it. They're depressed. Not actively trying to be selfish.
It's ones own personal choice. You don't know how it is to be the person.
If only all the other posters could be like you amateurmacfreak. Very positive and trying to be understanding.
lilstewart said:
Amen. I see in the post following this he does state it was a joke, and some have come close to crossing the line, but this was the worst so far.
For some, like myself, thoughts of suicide come from feeling like a failure. Went through these thoughts back in my first year of college. Trouble with family (being told I was a failure for not doing one thing or another), trouble with college (failing my classes), trouble with relationships (failing in knowing or accepting of myself).
I just wanted the pain to stop. But the cycle had set in, I truly thought of myself as a failure. To the point, what if I failed at suicide? A really sad place to be in, let me tell you.
Lucky for me I sought out therapy. That was almost 30 years ago. I learned to live my life the way I want to. That the world is full of cruel, heartless, aggressive sorts that try to impose their will on others - but I like to think my gentler approach to life can reach many more.
So glad that 30 years ago I never had the opportunity to come across this "joke".
There seem to be a few insensitive people participating in this thread, including Abstract, who tried to joke it away.... Suicide is not a joke, either to the person who attempts it/succeeds at it or the family and friends of that person. Nor is it a "selfish" act, as a couple others have incorrectly suggested. If someone is so immature or so uncomfortable with this subject that he or she cannot respond in an appropriate manner in a thread such as this one they should simply not bother to post. However they might actually learn something if they read what survivors of suicide attempts have to say....
As someone pointed out there is suicide -- actual completed suicide --and parasuicide -- the attempts which do not result in completion and the person is still alive at the end of his/her attempt. Make no mistake: both are deadly serious events regardless of the outcome.
Depression can be very crippling and those who suffer from intractable depression, who cannot seem to hit on the right meds or who cannot/do not benefit from other treatment such as ECT (electroconvulsive therapy) truly suffer in a way which is difficult for those not affected to understand. Many people with severe depression want a way out, want relief, and the only way they can see to get out is to attempt to end their life. They have lost the sense of their own value, their own worth and cannot see that by obliterating themselves or attempting to do so they are depriving others of a person who indeed does have value and something to offer.
Years ago I talked with a friend who had come home from the psych hospital after she'd been admitted for a stay following a serious suicide attempt. She was severely depressed and had been as far back as she could remember. She told me that at the time she was carrying out the act she had gotten to the point where nothing mattered in her life, nothing nor anyone could convince her to stay here in the world: not her husband, not her daughters (all of whom she loved very much); the compulsion to end her life was stronger than the will to stick around for their sakes. She said that at that point she couldn't care -- couldn't ALLOW herself to care -- about how they would feel "after," because she genuinely thought that her family would be better off without the enormous burden of her and her depression. She was so truly miserable in her life that she couldn't see any possibilties for things to be better and she was aware that her depression and depressed moods affected her family; to her, the solution seemed obvious: remove herself from the family and the world and they would be able to go on free of the burden of her, and she would be free of her acute unhappiness and inability to see beyond the constant depression which clouded her days and nights. Her depression had gotten to the extent that it was affecting her abilty to think rationally and to look for other ways to change things in order to make her life better. She survived her attempt and a different approach to treatment was tried so that she was able to view life and her own situation in a more positive way, had some energy to put towards making changes that would make a better life happen....
Those dealing with depression are not the only people likely to attempt suicide; there are those who are diagnosed with the rather catchall "Borderline Personality Disorder." In many instances, yes, someone with BPD, who has poor impulse control and a low tolerance for many situations which others handle comfortably or at least functionally, will make parasuicidal gestures, and in many instances this is perceived by clinicians and family as a bid for attention rather than the serious situation it actually is. Sometimes it IS just that, an impulsive act in response to a situation the individual cannot tolerate, but in other situations it can indeed carry deeper meaning for the person. Unfortunately after someone has landed in the ER several times following a parasuicidal act, especially if there is that telltale diagnosis of BPD on the chart, people tend to stop taking the person and his cries for help seriously. This can be a fatal mistake.
Those of you who are posting in this thread who are survivors: I'm glad that you are still here! I hope that YOU are glad you're still here and that you've been able to try something different, find other ways to work through your issues. As KT has said, something like this can be a real wakeup call and an impetus towards life lived differently....
I'm sure that many of us have known someone personally who has not survived, or has heard of a friend of a friend or someone at school or work who has not survived. Let us honor them by treating this subject with respect.
As someone pointed out there is suicide -- actual completed suicide --and parasuicide -- the attempts which do not result in completion and the person is still alive at the end of his/her attempt. Make no mistake: both are deadly serious events regardless of the outcome.
Depression can be very crippling and those who suffer from intractable depression, who cannot seem to hit on the right meds or who cannot/do not benefit from other treatment such as ECT (electroconvulsive therapy) truly suffer in a way which is difficult for those not affected to understand. Many people with severe depression want a way out, want relief, and the only way they can see to get out is to attempt to end their life. They have lost the sense of their own value, their own worth and cannot see that by obliterating themselves or attempting to do so they are depriving others of a person who indeed does have value and something to offer.
Years ago I talked with a friend who had come home from the psych hospital after she'd been admitted for a stay following a serious suicide attempt. She was severely depressed and had been as far back as she could remember. She told me that at the time she was carrying out the act she had gotten to the point where nothing mattered in her life, nothing nor anyone could convince her to stay here in the world: not her husband, not her daughters (all of whom she loved very much); the compulsion to end her life was stronger than the will to stick around for their sakes. She said that at that point she couldn't care -- couldn't ALLOW herself to care -- about how they would feel "after," because she genuinely thought that her family would be better off without the enormous burden of her and her depression. She was so truly miserable in her life that she couldn't see any possibilties for things to be better and she was aware that her depression and depressed moods affected her family; to her, the solution seemed obvious: remove herself from the family and the world and they would be able to go on free of the burden of her, and she would be free of her acute unhappiness and inability to see beyond the constant depression which clouded her days and nights. Her depression had gotten to the extent that it was affecting her abilty to think rationally and to look for other ways to change things in order to make her life better. She survived her attempt and a different approach to treatment was tried so that she was able to view life and her own situation in a more positive way, had some energy to put towards making changes that would make a better life happen....
Those dealing with depression are not the only people likely to attempt suicide; there are those who are diagnosed with the rather catchall "Borderline Personality Disorder." In many instances, yes, someone with BPD, who has poor impulse control and a low tolerance for many situations which others handle comfortably or at least functionally, will make parasuicidal gestures, and in many instances this is perceived by clinicians and family as a bid for attention rather than the serious situation it actually is. Sometimes it IS just that, an impulsive act in response to a situation the individual cannot tolerate, but in other situations it can indeed carry deeper meaning for the person. Unfortunately after someone has landed in the ER several times following a parasuicidal act, especially if there is that telltale diagnosis of BPD on the chart, people tend to stop taking the person and his cries for help seriously. This can be a fatal mistake.
Those of you who are posting in this thread who are survivors: I'm glad that you are still here! I hope that YOU are glad you're still here and that you've been able to try something different, find other ways to work through your issues. As KT has said, something like this can be a real wakeup call and an impetus towards life lived differently....
I'm sure that many of us have known someone personally who has not survived, or has heard of a friend of a friend or someone at school or work who has not survived. Let us honor them by treating this subject with respect.
gekko513 said:
That's very western hemisphere of you.
Suicide in Japan can be a great thing. Considering traditional attitudes concerning family shame, suicide doesn't seem wrong or selfish at all. I agree with this but I can understand that westerners cannot understand or agree with it.
In my own life, every day I want to die but because my adoptive parents are Americans, I will not do it to avoid hurting them. The day they're both dead, I will restore my biological family's honour by dying.
LethalWolfe said:
Thanks for that post. I think it can be very hard for some people to understand a depressed/biloar person's state of mind when they are thinking of commiting suicide.
It was a wake up call for me. But it's like I can't control the thoughts, they still come and come, making me forget why it is bad...Clix Pix said:
It's like the brain is playing a trick on you.
I don't know how to respond to this. You're right that I can't understand it.bousozoku said:
Suicide can never be seen by me as the correct solution to restore honour for any reason. I can understand suicide as the result of severe long-term depression, and I understand how suicides can be the result of a borderline personality, but I don't understand how suicide can be the right thing to do for a person who doesn't suffer and is otherwise sane.
I'm really sorry you feel this way.bousozoku said:
I don't understand what you're saying. Can you explain, if you can?