Have you ever made a serious attempt at suicide?

[FocusAndEarnIt]

...but I don't understand how suicide can be the right thing to do for a person who doesn't suffer and is otherwise sane.

Who said he doesn't suffer? He hasn't told us that information... there maybe more behind the story than what our information tells us, and I want to try and understand, so if you could bousozoku, could you explain a little more? If you can, you don't have to, might be a sensitive area. no pressure at all. we just want to help you.

 

[vniow]

It's kind of hard to "get over it" when it's impossible to "get over it" because your brain is malfunctioning.

Bingo. That's exactly how I feel about it. I have a problem that can be fixed over the course of a few years given everything falls into place but if it wasn't for modern medical technology, I would have been dead years ago. Its the hope that someday soon this will all be past me that keeps me going right now. If it wasn't possible, I waited too long, or something got in the way of completing my goal, I wouldn't be posting this right now.

Our knowledge of the mind as compared to the body is very limited and its incredibly hard to treat people whose brains aren't functioning properly. I'm lucky to be one of those who can be treated but I can relate on a basic level to those who can't be.

 

[gekko513]

Who said he doesn't suffer? He hasn't told us that information... there maybe more behind the story than what our information tells us, and I want to try and understand, so if you could bousozoku, could you explain a little more?

You're right. I'm sorry if that's the case bousozoku.

I may have misunderstood and put too much weight on "restore my biological family's honour".

 

[FocusAndEarnIt]

I can be "treated" but they do not know if I will suffer from my depression all my life.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

You may have a point with what I bolded out in your post, and that point is contradictory to your first post where you seemed to mock people that fail at suicide.

A mind is rarely filled with unanimous thoughts, and I can imagine that a suicidal mind is a lot more plagued by conflicting thoughts and desires than a healthy one.

Labeling all failed suicides as "attention seeking" is harsh, thoughtless and shows a lack of empathy in my opinion.

I will speak only for myself. Like devilot, my Church upbringing also came in to bear. I really did not want to die, but the pain of what my life was like then did not seem to be worth hoping for something better down the road. For me it was 10 years of hell leading to these thoughts. And one should note that in the posts so far, these thoughts were when most were in their teens and early twenties.

IMO the "attention getting" label used for attempted suicides is something to make the tormentors feel better about themselves for not realizing that their own actions played a part in making someone's life seem so terrible to live.

 

[katie ta achoo]

IMO the "attention getting" label used for attempted suicides is something to make the tormentors feel better about themselves for not realizing that their own actions played a part in making someone's life seem so terrible to live.

I never realized that before, but I agree with that to a point.
I think if the person who contributed to my mental condition knew now that I attempted suicide, I think he'd feel bad about it. The last day of school, before I went to my current school, I asked him why.
"I felt like it."
Those were his words. Honestly.

I just don't get it.

(sorry for slight threadjack)

 

[gekko513]

Well since we've headed this way I might as well answer the original question.

Yes, I've made a serious attempt at suicide. It was 13 years ago. I was 15 years old and I ate every single pill I could find in my parents' medicine cabinet. Luckily there weren't enough, and I think maybe the coal pills cancelled out some of the acidic pills.

I was kind of depressed, and I sincerely thought that I would bring more shame onto my family by being gay than the grief I would cause them by being dead. I grew up in a very isolated village with very conservative religious people.

I now know that I was wrong and my family loves me no matter what. I'm glad to be alive.

So I can in a sense relate to honour and shame based suicide, but I now think that it is complete nonsense to be ashamed of things about yourself that you can't change. And my imagination fails when it comes to thinking about anything honour based that could justify suicide.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Suicide is the most selfish thing you could ever possibly do. Suck it up; you'd be hard-pressed to find someone that's really happy with their lives. Doesn't mean you go and kill yourself.

But for the grace of God, should you never find yourself in a situation that you don't see a way out of.

Just when I thought the "joke" was bad, then you give us this. Glad that you can weather what life gives you, so many more are not able to. And in the current insurance climate, seeking mental health care can be the kiss of death for short/long term disability insurance, life insurance, even jobs.

 

[2nyRiggz]

To anybody thinking about blasting themself i wish that whatever make that feeling come leave like the wind.....God bless all yall and the best of wishes.


I'm always sad...things never go my way......but i can't give up on myself just yet.


Bless

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

I'm not trying to be noble, and more importantly, I'm not trying to be insensitive. I've gone through a lot of grief over lost loved ones who didn't think about how their families would feel (or didn't care enough) and took the easy way out. They were extremely cowardly and that's just the way it is.

Anyone who disagrees with that is probably still dealing with their suicidal thoughts and needs to come to terms with the truth.

I'm sorry you see things differently, iGary, but you must have come to terms with something at one time because you are still here, and there's no doubt that many, many people are glad to have you around.

Some of us have come to terms with ourselves, and you say the "truth".

Those that followed my posts last year about my ex and our ending of 13+ years, and his going off the deep end (no, not suicide - but irrational behavior); I received many private emails and calls of concern about my well being. Some were concerned about a nervous breakdown, others concerned about my will to go on (and they had no idea of what I thought about 30 years ago).

I am thankful that I went through the "pain" early on. It gave me resolve for what I went through last year.

I disagree, and I don't really think that I have true suicidal thoughts for a long time. Sure it would be nice to not have to put with arses that feel their view is the only view. And from arses that never felt true depths of despair.

And as I have said, maybe if their families truly cared, then the despair would not have been so deep.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Its easy to be against it if you've had loved ones commit suicide, its much much harder if you've thought about it yourself.

You brought tears to my eyes on that. For I have been on both sides of the coin.

An aside: My first lover attempted suicide. Took an over dose of sleeping pills. I came home to find him lethargic. He then admitted to taking sleeping pills to kill himself. I called poison control, to be only told why did I not yet take him to the hospital!!!! Seems that he called a couple times before to try and get the right "dose".

 

[2nyRiggz]

If anyone is thinking bout this.....PM,IM,Call me and lets talk about it.....this topic always hurt my heart....

What can i say?

there are more fish in the sea
Days will get better
Pray and ask for the path you need
You are needed here....remember that.


Bless

 

[bousozoku]

I'm really sorry you feel this way.

I don't understand what you're saying. Can you explain, if you can?

I was born because my Japanese mother was with a white man but she wasn't married. This was double the dishonour to the family. 100 years prior, my grandfather could have killed her without a problem because it was a proper way to conduct matters of honour. She had a choice of suicide to address the problem but she did nothing, further complicating the matter.

I was born about 1000 km/600 miles away from the family home to hide the shame. Not only that, but my kind was hated by Japanese in Japan and later, by Americans in the U.S.A.

Things have changed over time, but the shame remains as long as I live. Do I suffer? Perhaps. Does my family suffer? Yes. Would my death rectify the situation to Japanese society? Yes.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Not true. I've had a handful of friends who have tried several ways to kill themselves, failing each time only to admit years later that they were just doing it for attention and felt, even at the time, that they could've easily done much more damage.

Hell yes it is for attention! For many are ignored or abused by their families.

To consider suicide, is a final act of desperation. Some hope that they might be saved, but realize that it might not come. Callous comments like yours is why some try and try again to end the pain of uncaring. un-listening people like you seem to portray by your comments.

Before I try to even guess why you feel the way you do, I would love to know more about your life. What your family life was like. What schools your went to. What sports you participated in. What job you hold now. I think I have my own answers, but I would really like to know before I post my own thoughts..[/QUOTE]

 

[macEfan]

never have yet, and hopefully never will.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

I agree with that 100%.

I can not even explain the pissed off level I am at right now.

I think I'm gonna be away from the forums a little.

Some of us will not give up. I am finding too often here on MR that we are seeing "bullies" that are trying to limit discussion or debate on certain topics. I know I have been drawn in to some bad threads because of this trend. I made the decision this morning to let some have their ways elsewhere here on MR.

But a topic like this will NEVER let me allow anyone to demean the depths of despair that gives rise to thoughts of suicide, or actual attempts. I was able to fight back those demons. I know too many young and old that were not as strong as I was.

How soon do we here someone say that if they were that "weak"; maybe it is better that they aren't here now? Maybe God granted me the wisdom and strength to be here now to answer what I can only call the "ignorant".

 

[sushi]

what i meant by that was that someone who tries and fails, probably deep down inside still wants to live, even if they think their serious about killing themselves.

Experts will tell you that some attempts are gestures vice real acts. I have seen both -- especially when it comes to opening one's wrists.

What I do know, is that there are many different ways to commit suicide. Some require dedication vice others that require just a fraction of a second to initiate the action. Not trying to be funny. Just thinking back on a very horific suicide where it was obvious that this young person really wanted to go. Very sad situation.

I believe that everyone has a time in their life when the world is too much for them and they contemplate other alternatives. That is where being an attentive and supporting friend is most important to help them get through the situation.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

If you try and fail it's because your plan sucked and nothing more. The human body is remarkably strong and resilient.

And there are those of us that now realize we have a place in God's Divine Plan.

Usually it's that part of you is afraid to die. You've confused the two states and that's precisely why you don't know what you're talking about.

Take it from one that has been there. In my case it was fear of failure (I could make jokes, but I won't). And it was in part that I did not want to truly end my life. Only to end the pain from those that thought they knew what was better for me. The "Type A" personalities that feel they need to attack any weakness in a person for their gain. We see that by some posters here on MR.

I wonder if there has been any studies as to those that survived a suicide, or thought about suicide - as to how they lean politically. Not just Left or Right, as it seems popular here in the US, but do they have a more compassionate leaning.

 

[longofest]

Moderator Note

All-

Overall, everyone has been doing very well keeping the tone of this very touchy thread encouraging and non-insulting. I just wanted to encourage that we keep it that way, and continue to avoid anything that could be considered insulting.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

No. I don't feel that's true at all. A failed attempt can be a "wake up call", making you look at your life in greater detail.
When I did it, I woke up and just thought. I didn't die, even though I wanted to. I examined my life. I cut out the negatives, I found a new circle of friends.
Life improved exponentially afterward.

I never attempted, but came close - only for fear of failure as I stated.

Our marvelous healthcare system led me to being denied long term disability for a job in the 90's; because I saw the "signs" of trouble when my ex-lover attempted suicide, and my Mom died within months of each other. I nearly lost one, and did lose another that loved me unconditionally back in '82.

Then in '92 I lost my Dad just a week after my birthday that we never got a chance to celebrate, and my Uncle just days before Christmas. They both shared patriarchal duties within my family (my Uncle was a Priest). I learned my lesson from '82; and paid out of pocket for therapy to deal with feelings and issues (no, I was not suicidal during this time - just feeling abandoned).

 

[gekko513]

bousozoku: That eastern notion of honour is very alien to me. It saddens me that you feel you are responsible for restoring your family's honour by killing yourself because your mother failed to do so after dishonouring herself in the eyes of the society she lived in.

In my eyes, it is a horrible thought and quite absurd, but obviously it isn't to you, so I have to respect that.

Can you elaborate some more on how this honour system is advantageous in a philisophical context?

 

[dogbone]

A comment from the OP.

Hi everyone. I woke up a couple of hours ago and was astounded to see the number of posts and I've just spent the last two hours reading it. I'll post some detailed comments soon but first I'd like to make an observation...

I suppose I should be grateful that it hasn't spiraled out of control, as it is obviously a topic dear to many people's hearts.

Now look folks please remember where we are. The Macrumors *Community* Forum. This is not a dedicated Samaritan suicide site. If anyone feels that they would like to talk about their suicidal feelings, and are worried about themselves then this is not the place. It would be better to use PM's

The reason I say this is because I don't want to see anyone *censored* because they have been pressured into keeping their mouth shut. I have been particularly annoyed at the reactions to Abstract's jovial attitude. No one has the right to lecture him on his comments, to the point of making him feel that he is unable to speak freely. I did not take any offense at all to his comments directed at me regarding 'good places in the Blue Mountains' to jump from. Indeed I'm quite happy to answer his post with a straight bat.

Another point I'd like to make is that some people are claiming the high moral ground by pretending that they are talking about a *serious* suicide attempt and then grandstanding. For example this post by...

If someone is so immature or so uncomfortable with this subject that he or she cannot respond in an appropriate manner in a thread such as this one they should simply not bother to post.

Years ago I talked with a friend who had come home from the psych hospital after she'd been admitted for a stay following a serious suicide attempt.

Now Clix, has used this gambit to post a long rant BUT we are expected to just take his/her word for it that the attempt was in fact *serious*. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't. The point is that we cannot know because he/she hasn't told us what the exact circumstances were.

as an example of what I mean let me quote this post...

Yes, I've made a serious attempt at suicide. It was 13 years ago. I was 15 years old and I ate every single pill I could find in my parents' medicine cabinet. Luckily there weren't enough, and I think maybe the coal pills cancelled out some of the acidic pills.

Now without diminishing gekko's view that it was serious, this is *not* what I call *serious*. Taking every single pill in a cabinet does not qualify as *serious*. One pill is enough if you knew it was a suicide pill. For example those that were given to spies in case of capture.

To give an example of *serious* pill taking I give this personal example. At one time when I was considering ways to die I looked at what is possible first. I heard that [a drug] has a lethal dosage. So being serious meant to research that lethal dosage and be aware of the body type so one would know for sure it was lethal. But that is not the end of it. Research show that if you get to hospital withing [a time] there is an antidote. So serious must take this into account. Then there is the possibility of [not succeeding with the attempt]. This last factor was enough to leave enough of a doubt in my mind to reject this as a *serious* method.

This is notwithstanding of course that someone may be making a 'cry for help' and yet miscalculate and die. This is what I believed happened to my sister when I was 11 and she was 26. I don't know the full story as I have had to piece it together over the years but I believe what happend was that she took a bunch of [another drug] (not a very massive dose) and also drank a lot of alcohol, she would have expected her husband to come home at a particular time. He was a gambler and stayed out all night. He didn't come home. She died. I have since found out that she called my brother beforehand although he is a bit cagey as to exactly what transpired.

Anyhow I'm disappointed that some people have been hounded off the thread like someguy whom I would have like to answer in a dispassionate way but I can't now thanks to him being attacked. But maybe he will read this and answer my points which I'll post later anyway.

EDIT: I'd like to mention that there have been some fascinating posts and I thank everyone in this great community for contributing.

EDIT: Remember we can all make mistakes. If someone has been insenitive or crass (not in my opinion) then they need not be lectured, just answer them and realise that it is your opinion. Give them the room to realise their mistake (if there was one) themselves.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

I'm glad I didn't, naturally. Just goes to show you how much one can miss. I look back on all I've done over the past two-three years; and the amazing people who I've been blessed to cross paths with, and I hate to think how it might not have even happened if I chose suicide. Even while I might get depressed at times, I just could never bring myself to ever even think about suicide again because I know how much possibility lays before me. Really, anything I ever could want to accomplish could be achieved with enough dedication. The idea that all that is ended by one's own free will makes me sick to my stomach.

Amen to that. I have been blessed over the years since those dark years almost thirty years ago. I would have never gone on to found one of the first BBS's to deal with STD's and AIDS in the Gay community way back when. I would never had the chance to attend the many Embassy parties, gala events, and such that gave me a taste of life. And i would not have been able to have spent the better part of 13+ years with my ex (yes, there were many years there that were wonderful to wake up for each day). I would have never seen Reykjavik or London. Or met and cherished the some many people that have affected my life in a positive way, even today here on MR.

I now see "failure" as my living up to expectations of others. Yes, I have an issue with narrow-minded people, but each day gives me new insights on how to deal with them. Some lessons take longer to learn, but I do learn them.

I now see that I have not "failed" in my life. For God could call me Home tomorrow, and I can be pleased in that I did my best to leave the most positive mark that I could.

I may not be earning a triple figure income, living in a $500K US home, driving some $40K US plus luxury mobile. But I know look forward to each new day at work and in life.

In the reality of the US workplace, this may make me a "loser" or "failure" to some Type-A personalities that want to win at no costs. I am not talking of those that take personal risks to reach their dreams (I will not mention his name, but I think he knows that I am talking about him - he is still trying to find his dream, but with what he has done, we should want to try to do half of it); but those that reach their dreams by demeaning and putting down others.

To all those 30 years ago (including my family - that we have come to understand each other), I live today to show you all I am not a failure. I have succeeded on so many other levels that you might never understand.

I just hope my words of survival give some hope and solace to those that might be in their own darkest moments.

 

[dogbone]

some comments on suicide reasons

There are many reasons, cultural (bousozoku), clinical (depression), irrational (girlfriend left me), failure (ignorance), chemical (hormones), revenge (like someone who chooses to blow their brains out and spatter bits of themselves all over their parent's house). Usually though it is mainly because the person sees no future. Just a big black hole. Logic is not involved. To understand this better we should look at anger...

The red mist. One particular death that seems to have stuck in my mind is the murder of Marvin Gaye by his father. This thing about anger is that when one is consumed by this state, all ones knowledge flies out the window. It's all very well trying to work out how to deal with it when it happens but it must be realised that when that state arises all the prior thinking was done with a clear head. This is a bit of a conundrum and a paradox.

 

[vniow]

There are many reasons, cultural (bousozoku), clinical (depression), irrational (girlfriend left me), failure (ignorance), chemical (hormones) (vniow), revenge (like someone who chooses to blow their brains out and spatter bits of themselves all over their parent's house).

Fixed that for you.