Have you ever made a serious attempt at suicide?

[Clix Pix]

Another point I'd like to make is that some people are claiming the high moral ground by pretending that they are talking about a *serious* suicide attempt and then grandstanding. For example this post by...

Now Clix, has used this gambit to post a long rant BUT we are expected to just take his/her word for it that the attempt was in fact *serious*. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't. The point is that we cannot know because he/she hasn't told us what the exact circumstances were.

Excuse me, but I do not feel it is necessary to go into graphic details of someone's suicide attempt in this or any other thread. Number one, IMHO it is not appropriate, number two, it is violation of my friend's privacy, and number three, just to clarify, no, I was not "grandstanding" or obfuscating or pretending by alluding to a "friend. " I was discussing a friend's situation, not my own. I have never made a suicide attempt, nor do I think I ever will. A friend made a serious attempt. Her family and friends are very grateful that she is still with us today. Let's leave it at that, OK? I had another friend who at age 24 managed to successfully suicide. Am I going to provide the details of that situaton? No.

I was mentioning my one friend in the context of the overall discussion but did not feel that her story needed specific details. What exactly is the purpose of providing a vivid description? It is my concern that to do so is to potentially "trigger" someone, to potentially give a vulnerable person reading this thread either now or at some other time ideas of new lethal ways in which to do him/herself in....and I don't think that this is a healthy approach to the discussion.

Reading the next part of your post I am beginning to question your motivation in bringing up this topic in the first place.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Those of you who are posting in this thread who are survivors: I'm glad that you are still here! I hope that YOU are glad you're still here and that you've been able to try something different, find other ways to work through your issues. As KT has said, something like this can be a real wakeup call and an impetus towards life lived differently....

Clix, you are truly one of a kind. You brought tears to my eyes with your post. I am a quasi-survivor. As I have mentioned before, failure was driving me to suicide, but being beaten with the idea that I was such a failure, led me to believe that I would even fail in that.

I hope that my previous post shows you and others that I am happy with the outcome in my life. So much that I would have missed. And I hope that in the greater scheme of life, I may have added to others lives too.

But I have lost a few to suicide. And I wonder what we as a society that we are missing in their passing. One was a gifted artist, did we miss the next Picasso? Another was a gifted musician, and yet another had the kindest heart I ever knew. What are we missing from them not being here?

As I said in another post here, I am glad that the "joke" was never given the light of day when I was at the darkest point in my life. For the likes of the "jokester" could have won.

 

[dogbone]

Fixed that for you.

My gf is Kali so I know all about that moaning whore who dwells within. In fact just this morning I woke up to a whirlwind. Is it a full moon already?

 

[Clix Pix]

Clix, you are truly one of a kind. You brought tears to my eyes with your post. I am a quasi-survivor.

Correction, Chip: you are a SURVIVOR: no "quasi" about it!

I think it's wonderful that you have found peace and happiness in your life and have done things which would have not been possible if you'd carried through with things you were thinking years ago.... I for one am glad you're still here!

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

That's very western hemisphere of you.

Suicide in Japan can be a great thing. Considering traditional attitudes concerning family shame, suicide doesn't seem wrong or selfish at all. I agree with this but I can understand that westerners cannot understand or agree with it.

In my own life, every day I want to die but because my adoptive parents are Americans, I will not do it to avoid hurting them. The day they're both dead, I will restore my biological family's honour by dying.

Thank you for providing a perspective that I lost sight in, given my own perceptions and dealings.

As I try and learn for my new world travels, you provided a great reminder that what disgusts us here in the West, or maybe even more so here in the US, does not mean that I (we) should take those attitudes with us.

In looking at my situation 30 years ago, there was a minor point that could have lead me not to be here today in following Japanese customs. But my "shame" was a minor one; and not worthy from what I understand the Japanese custom of "shame".

In the end, I am concerned by your final paragraph. Not quite sure how you meant that to be read. A Western read is troubling, and Eastern read is more open to time taking it toll.

 

[jsw]

Just a note to all:

It is perfectly OK to discuss your emotional state, reasons, problems, etc. It is not OK to discuss exact methods used or considered in attempts.

Please refrain from doing so, as this thread will not be allowed, intentionally or inadvertently, to deteriorate into a how-to guide.

 

[dogbone]

I was discussing a friend's situation, not my own. I have never made a suicide attempt, nor do I think I ever will. A friend made a serious attempt. Her family and friends are very grateful that she is still with us today. Let's leave it at that, OK? I had another friend who at age 24 managed to successfully suicide. Am I going to provide the details of that situaton? No.

Reading the next part of your post I am beginning to question your motivation in bringing up this topic in the first place.

As someone else mentioned earlier it would be nice to sort of not stray too far from the topic, which is a *serious* attempt. This obviously can only be answered by the person involved. You can't tell by looking. Was my sister's successful attempt, serious or accidental. I think it was accidental but there's no way for me to know if it was serious. With regards to "let's leave it at that" you can leave what you wish, and I will answer what I choose. OK?

Am I going to provide the details of that situaton?

Why not, if it is relevant to a point you might be making. You don't need to mention any names. It's all anonymous.

 

[jimN]

Had no idea what a depressive bunch people on here were. Perhaps mac ownership is a positive predictor of suicidality - i smell a class action.

 

[gekko513]

<snip>I did not take any offense at all to his comments directed at me regarding 'good places in the Blue Mountains' to jump from. Indeed I'm quite happy to answer his post with a straight bat.<snip>

Another point I'd like to make is that some people are claiming the high moral ground by pretending that they are talking about a *serious* suicide attempt and then grandstanding. For example this post by... Clix, has used this gambit to post a long rant BUT we are expected to just take his/her word for it that the attempt was in fact *serious*.<snip>

Now without diminishing gekko's view that it was serious, this is *not* what I call *serious*. Taking every single pill in a cabinet does not qualify as *serious*.<snip>

Anyhow I'm disappointed that some people have been hounded off the thread like someguy whom I would have like to answer in a dispassionate way but I can't now thanks to him being attacked. But maybe he will read this and answer my points which I'll post later anyway.<snip>

I get the feeling that you're trying to say that since you are the only one with a *serious* suicide attempt, you're the only one that should have a right to react to and have an argument with Abstract and someguy about their attitude towards suicide.

I don't get what you mean to accomplish with your recent posts.

 

[mark!]

oh lawd not me. i grew up (still am, at 15) in abusive enviroment.

[[crazy filipino mom's...jeez]]

I'm doin great now, & very happy, & I would go through it all again to get to where I am now.

 

[dogbone]

I now see "failure" as my living up to expectations of others.

I now see that I have not "failed" in my life. For God could call me Home tomorrow, and I can be pleased in that I did my best to leave the most positive mark that I could.

I may not be earning a triple figure income, living in a $500K US home, driving some $40K US plus luxury mobile. But I know look forward to each new day at work and in life.

In the reality of the US workplace, this may make me a "loser" or "failure" to some Type-A personalities that want to win at no costs.

I really like this post of yours Chip. I was going to comment anyway on your earlier mentions of 'failure' and give you my understanding of this word. 'Failure' is in reality a nonsense word in the way that we are programmed to believe it. I guess it starts in primary school and our ingrained attitude that there are winners and losers. This is why competative sports at an early age are not good. This just instills this false attitude.

I have come to see it this way. There is an order to the world, physiological, psychological, biological, and so forth. These laws operate as they do, a ball dropped from a buiding will fall. That's just the gravitational law in operation. We as humans cannot control these laws we can only work within them. A flying plane does not control gravity it just works within other physical laws.

We as human beings with free will cirtainly have choice over our actions but we do not have choice over the results of our actions, other wise we would never fail, everything would go according to our expectations. We need to understand that after choosing to perform an action, there are four possible results. Exactly what I expect, more than what I expect, less than what I expect or the complete opposite of what I expect.

The feeling of 'failure' is an ingrained non understanding of what is and is not under our sphere of influence. We make our choices based on what we know, we cannot be expected to know everything about everything. For example you may invest your money in a safe investment with a low risk, but there may be some incredibly rare event that causes you to lose all your money. This could be seen as failure but there was no failure. You wanted to invest your money and you did, a successful actions. That the result was not to your expectation must also be expected. It's just a graceful acceptance of what is.

I do get frustrated with friends of mine who try to insist that certain things they have done makes them a 'failure'. They did the best they could with the knowledge that they had. Just being alive makes you successful.

Failure, as a reason for suicide is very sad.

 

[Clix Pix]

As someone else mentioned earlier it would be nice to sort of not stray too far from the topic, which is a *serious* attempt. This obviously can only be answered by the person involved. You can't tell by looking. Was my sister's successful attempt, serious or accidental. I think it was accidental but there's no way for me to know if it was serious. With regards to "let's leave it at that" you can leave what you wish, and I will answer what I choose. OK?

Am I going to provide the details of that situaton?

Why not, if it is relevant to a point you might be making. You don't need to mention any names. It's all anonymous.

Maybe we need to ask loud and clear: exactly what is your reason for starting this thread? What do you expect to gain from it?

You clearly seem interested in specific details. Why? You seem to be concerned about whether or not an attempt was "serious." Why? What difference does it make to you? What impact does it have on your life? What is your definition of "serious?" Why the keen interest in knowing specific details of an attempt?

It is not OK to discuss exact methods used or considered in attempts.

This is very sensitive territory here; please note what JSW has said and please be respectful of others.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

I can be "treated" but they do not know if I will suffer from my depression all my life.

If my life can be of any help for you, I still deal with depression from time to time. But I am truly happy with what life has given me over the last 30 years.

Sure I may not have the same issues or diagnosis as you, or you for me. But the darkest days when I was close to your age are a memory that I live with and use to provide a reason/will to go on with my life with.

Barbara Streisand sang "Memories"

Mem’ries,
Like the corners of my mind
Misty water-colored memories
Of the way we were
Scattered pictures,
Of the smiles we left behind
Smiles we gave to one another
For the way we were
Can it be that it was all so simple then?
Or has time re-written every line?
If we had the chance to do it all again
Tell me, would we? could we?
Mem’ries, may be beautiful and yet
What’s too painful to remember
We simply choose to forget
So it’s the laughter
We will remember
Whenever we remember...
The way we were...
The way we were...

In some ways I have "rewritten every line". For what is "too painful to remember", I have not forgotten. But allowed to fade, otherwise it would consume me. That may come with age. I just hope that I am still around 30 years from now to hear how wonderful life has turned out for you - if you allow it.

Take this from one that has been in that dark place you have been in. I have not shared the deepest details of my life in this thread or others that in many ways still affects me in some small way. But rest assured you are not alone. Live to spite them all is my opinion.

 

[blackfox]

While I have to wonder about the wisdom/utility of a thread like this, I must say that I am impressed by the candor and support evinced by our members.

It is quite a reflection of our community that people have been so forthright about such a personal issue.

I have had indirect experience with suicide (in that it was not me, but a friend), and ultimately it proved to have a happy ending (in that the attempt failed, and she is doing better). This by no means makes me an expert.

I will, however, bring up one point. Suicide (successful or not), affects a great deal more than the individual. As someone involved in a suicidal situation, but who has never contemplated it myself, I must say how difficult it was to handle such a situation, and how I made as many mistakes in attempting to do the right thing. I still don't quite understand.

I would hope that comments and queries from people like myself would be well-received in this thread, as we are affected by the lead-up and actions of the suicidal too.

In many cases we don't understand, or think we do, and this can cause grave errors in judgement, however well-meaning. That some choose to react with humor, flippancy or crass language, says little about their genuine ability to sypathize with the subject, only that everyone approaches this subject the best they can, with their peculiar failings.

If the goal of this thread is understanding, then I hope it would be extended to everyone - so that a mistake might be made in this thread rather than in an instance where the repercussions could be more grave.

Once again, I have never been suicidal - but in dealing with it in those I know, I have too been affected - and learned certain lessons the hard way.

I would hope that these lessons may be, to the degree that they can be in such a forum, more easily taught to those fortunate that have not experienced the suicidal first-hand - and are unprepared for the situation.

A successful thread in these terms could very well save a life - and save many other's from ignorance or regret.

OTOH, if I have misunderstood or miscontrued this thread's intention or focus, then I apologize and by all means ignore and delete this post. thanks

 

[dogbone]

I'm sorry you have misunderstood. My original reason for the thread was just to see if anyone else around here actually thought they were going to die by their own hand, and *knew* they were going to die, but in fact didn't. And how that experience affected them or not as the case may be.

I could have started a thread titled "Has anyone thought about or attempted suicide", but that would not interest me.

Maybe I'd better get some work done instead

EDIT: but you are prolly right, I should just let it go as it will. I guess I was wrong in trying to keep the thread too tightly on topic, my apologies. I just got annoyed that some people were hounded off the thread for no real reason.

 

[jsw]

My original reason for the thread was just to see if anyone else around here actually thought they were going to die by their own hand, and *knew* they were going to die, but in fact didn't. And how that experience affected them or not as the case may be.

Thank you for clarifying. I am relieved then that few people can honestly answer your thread in the way you originally intended, but I am also happy to see the support provided by the community and the outlet this thread has provided for those who may have wished to discuss this topic but who never felt that they had an opportunity to do so.

 

[solvs]

Yes.

Only I came back to life for some reason.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Now without diminishing gekko's view that it was serious, this is *not* what I call *serious*. Taking every single pill in a cabinet does not qualify as *serious*. One pill is enough if you knew it was a suicide pill. For example those that were given to spies in case of capture.

To give an example of *serious* pill taking I give this personal example. At one time when I was considering ways to die I looked at what is possible first. I heard that [a drug] has a lethal dosage. So being serious meant to research that lethal dosage and be aware of the body type so one would know for sure it was lethal. But that is not the end of it. Research show that if you get to hospital withing [a time] there is an antidote. So serious must take this into account. Then there is the possibility of [not succeeding with the attempt]. This last factor was enough to leave enough of a doubt in my mind to reject this as a *serious* method.

"Serious" is a matter of ones own view point. Wittiness my example of my ex-lovers repeated phone calls to a poison control center in order to to get the "right" dosage".

In my case I had two choices that I truly considered. One was to take the many pills that my mother was on. The risk in "failure" there was that I could be found before the medicines took their toll. The other would have been to take my Dad's service revolver and try to blow my brain out. Had a neighbor a year earlier down the street leave this sweet earth that way. But there was an article in the newspaper of a "failed" attempt a couple weeks earlier.

In my "time" we had only the news and friends that talked of what they "heard" as how "one would do it". Now we have websites and IRC channels with "how-to-tips". And even those that will "offer to help you out".

I can not truly explain the fear I had at failing to take my own life. At the time I had no resources like the one you mentioned, I just had antidotal evidence of that.

Anyhow I'm disappointed that some people have been hounded off the thread like someguy whom I would have like to answer in a dispassionate way but I can't now thanks to him being attacked. But maybe he will read this and answer my points which I'll post later anyway.

You can always send him a private message.

There may be a difference between your thoughts and mine of suicide. For all things in my life 30 years ago being equal, with the added value of the "information age" I doubt I or many others would still be here.

Those that have survived either the thoughts or attempts IMO tend be "older". Meaning that we are are in our 30's or 40's at this point.

From what some of us thought was the purpose of the original intent of your first post, and now reading a different message in this post - your new tone is bothersome.

 

[dogbone]

1 In many cases we don't understand, or think we do, and this can cause grave errors in judgement, however well-meaning.

2 That some choose to react with humor, flippancy or crass language, says little about their genuine ability to sypathize with the subject, only that everyone approaches this subject the best they can, with their peculiar failings.

3 If the goal of this thread is understanding...

4 A successful thread in these terms could very well save a life - and save many other's from ignorance or regret.

1 A case in point was when I was 16 I was at a friend's house and I had taken a couple of Mandrax, I didn't really know much about this drug. I was not suicidal or anything. I was just taking what I thought was a fun drug at the time. I had no idea how toxic they were. After three I had passed out and woke up in hospital. It was a complete stupid accident. However I agreed to go to talk to a psychiatrist at a mental hospital because my parents were worried, they were convinced I had tried to commit suicide, probably because of the memories of my sister's death. They were wrong.

After I talked to the psychiatrist I said, "OK, bye" and he said "you're not going anywhere" I looked at my parents and friend and realised they had committed me. It would be difficult to describe the feeling of pure terror at that moment. The people I trusted had shafted me, in their mind for my own good. They didn't realise it but the hospital had quite a few sadistic male nurses who told me I'd never get out, that it would be years before I could see a phychiatrist to be assessed again. I contemplated suicide then, it was frightening. I was released three days later.

2 Yes.

3 +4 There really isn't a goal I suppose (notwithstanding what I've already said) I just go with the flow of my mind. We never really know the full meaning or consequences of our actions. It would not surprise me if this thread saves a life. Maybe if it did then what ever triggered me to start it could very well have been some grace that was operating in someone elses life and I am just a conduit. Life is like that all the time.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Correction, Chip: you are a SURVIVOR: no "quasi" about it!

I think it's wonderful that you have found peace and happiness in your life and have done things which would have not been possible if you'd carried through with things you were thinking years ago.... I for one am glad you're still here!

A simple thank you from me. In meeting and getting to know you, in some way the trials I faced over the years are such small potatoes.

I hope that you don't mind my sharing that what you have been through really has shown me new strength in life. When I look at what you have been through, I truly begin to think that I have been petty about my own life.

I am the one that should be truly grateful and blessed that you and I met. I hope you understand the meaning of these words. I am not pandering or trying to be "PC".

For the fellowship online here and in person has meant much to me personally. Maybe others here could learn a thing or two about accepting those we meet, warts and all. For I assume that you know a lot about "who I am" with my posts from last year. And as I said in another thread, is there really anything different about you? I know not. Just wish you would stop by the store more often.

For you and I are know as ones that can't just post one liners.

 

[dogbone]

A bit more clarity about what I am interested in.

After my original attempt that I described. I was glad I had not died. I was shocked at my actions. I was shocked that I could kill myself over a romantic entaglement at such a young age. I felt that this was a major catharic event in my life. I wondered what sort of programming must my parents have subliminally given me about suicide. I wondered about my sister's death. I wondered why my family kept telling me that when I was 5 years old I had found a dead body in a bathroom, and why they insisted this event would have affected me even though I have no memory of it at all and further my only memories of that time in my life are happy ones.

The thought of what I had done made me sick in my stomach. I was not a junkie, only had the occasional hit a couple of times a year at most. But after my experience the thought of ever using a needle again made me almost break out in a sweat. I vowed to always remember what I had learned and to never succumb to the dark thoughts of suicide. I could never ever imagine myself using a pic ever again...

So a few weeks later when I found myself injecting some high quality cocaine, I thought I was going crazy, I thought I was crazy. I didn't know what was real and what wasn't. It was out of all this that I embarked on a search for the truth of reality, but that's another story. I feel that 30 years later I'm just beginning to understand.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Had no idea what a depressive bunch people on here were. Perhaps mac ownership is a positive predictor of suicidality - i smell a class action.

No, maybe being Mac owners makes us more open to share and not be so judgmental.

 

[dogbone]

Had no idea what a depressive bunch people on here were. Perhaps mac ownership is a positive predictor of suicidality - i smell a class action.

If macs did not exist and it was a windows world we'd all have prolly topped ourselves long ago.

 

[bousozoku]

bousozoku: That eastern notion of honour is very alien to me. It saddens me that you feel you are responsible for restoring your family's honour by killing yourself because your mother failed to do so after dishonouring herself in the eyes of the society she lived in.

In my eyes, it is a horrible thought and quite absurd, but obviously it isn't to you, so I have to respect that.

Can you elaborate some more on how this honour system is advantageous in a philisophical context?

Even Japanese who do not practice religion have some basic beliefs which are derived from religion. In Shinto, it's believed that all members of a family are tied together for all eternity, that our actions affect everyone, including our ancestors and descendents.

It keeps people from making horrible mistakes, but if you know anything about modern times in Japan, you know that this has been slipping away as western culture makes more inroads. I'm not promoting it for other people, but I'm sorry to see things change in that way.

Thank you for providing a perspective that I lost sight in, given my own perceptions and dealings.

As I try and learn for my new world travels, you provided a great reminder that what disgusts us here in the West, or maybe even more so here in the US, does not mean that I (we) should take those attitudes with us.

In looking at my situation 30 years ago, there was a minor point that could have lead me not to be here today in following Japanese customs. But my "shame" was a minor one; and not worthy from what I understand the Japanese custom of "shame".

In the end, I am concerned by your final paragraph. Not quite sure how you meant that to be read. A Western read is troubling, and Eastern read is more open to time taking it toll.

Don't be concerned. It's really quite positive. Everyone should be able to settle affairs as long as they're not hurting others.


I'm sorry to hear that so many people from MacRumors have been hurting. I know the feeling quite well, but even at my worst, I can't allow myself to fall victim to my weakness and neither should any of you. You all have many things to accomplish in your future. If you don't believe in yourselves, you should know that I believe in you.

 

[jimN]

People keep coming back to the idea of what does and doesn't constitute a serious attempt at suicide and various comments have been made about who is able to judge this. In theory there are objective ways to assess the validity of a suicide attempt and to try to better understand the objectives of the person who made that attempt. Ultimately the majority of successful suiciders are serious, however, that isn't to say all are and some will have merely misjudged the drug dosage or assumed they'd be found when in fact they weren't.

Whilst the original poster's attempt sounds like a 'serious' one in as much as the outcome certainly seems to have been his own prompt demise, the person who described frequent calls to a poison's centre to determine lethal doses sounds like they are describing a parasuicider as this behaviour should undoubtedly alert authorities and bring the attention/help that they desire.

There are a great variety of ways to commit suicide (not 'attempt') and little imagination is required to come up with them and, without wanting to sound controversial, those who don't succeed invariably don't see death as the desired outcome.