HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray Battle Over? Warner Switches to Blu-Ray

[sitemaker69]

so what?

Meh. None of this matters to me, because I'm too broke to afford a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player/recorder or the blank discs!!

Wah, wah, wah, wah....



Bob.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Well with the digital transition in 2009, people are either going to have to buy convertor boxes or new televisions, and I'm guessing most of the people with older tvs are going to just buy a new TV rather than having to deal with a converter box.

That's pretty much a non-issue for two reasons. First, most people have cable or satellite so they don't need a converter box 'cause they don't use over-the-air TV. Second, the government is issuing vouchers which will make buying a converter box around a $10 out of pocket cost, IIRC.


Lethal

 

[janstett]

Question ... I have never owned a games console but was tempted to get a PS3 since the cost seems little more than a stand alone Blu-Ray player. Would it make sense to get one as a machine to watch movies and have the ability to see if I like games machines or is there a downside if primarily it is for movies? This would be viewed on a 50" HD TV in great room.

The PS3 is an exceptional Blu-Ray player. And it will probably be the best selling Blu-Ray player for some time, meaning when movies are tested they're tested against the PS3. For example, right now the PS3 is the first Blu-Ray 1.1 profile player. It's updatable over the internet and gets Sony's attention quickly. It's their flagship product. I do recommend the Blu-Ray remote controller.

You can configure the PS3 to go straight into the movie when a disc is inserted, so you don't have to bother with the console related dashboard stuff.

My only real complaint is the lack of 5.1 analog out -- the only way to take advantage of the lossless/PCM sound is with HDMI 1.3 of which there is very little that supports it. For those of us who don't have HDMI 1.3 receivers, we need analog outputs. Or they could at least remix the lossless audio to 1.4 mbps DTS like the XBox 360 does over SPDIF, but they don't do that now.

The only other complaint would be the design of the console (it's big and oddly shaped), and it generates a lot of heat.

I do not think the PS2 made a good DVD player. But the PS3 makes a very good Blu-Ray player.

 

[joshuawait]

Thanks for the great chart

Thanks for the great chart showing the impact of Warner's announcement. I would have found it a tad more helpful if the slice representing Warner was a different color (or perhaps the same color but hatched) and in the slice next to Other where Buena Vista currently is. That way, I could more clearly see the impact Warner was having by switching.

Thanks also for the tip that Apple may been soon announcing its blu-ray based products!

 

[macfan881]

Here is a update dont know if this is old or not http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=40659
HD DVD Camp Reacts to WB's Blu-ray Announcement
Source: HD DVD Promotion Group January 5, 2008

The HD DVD Promotion Group has made two announcements following Warner Bros.' decision to go Blu-ray Disc exclusive for High Definition titles (and New Line is going Blu-ray only as well with WB):

The companies of the HD DVD Promotion Group today issued a statement in response to the decision by Warner Home Video to exclusively back the Blu-ray format:

"While Warner's decision is a setback for HD DVD, the consumer has benefited from HD DVD's commitment to quality and affordability -- a bar that is critical for the mainstream success of any format. We believe widespread adoption of a next generation format will ultimately be determined by the consumer."

If you ask us, the HD DVD camp is reaching here. We don't think they'll be able to recover from losing Warner Bros. Entertainment as well. With Blu-ray Disc now gaining a 70% share of the market compared to HD DVD's 30%, we wouldn't be surprised if announcements from Paramount/DreamWorks and Universal (the only two studios on HD DVD's side) will come sometime down the road saying that they will either go Blu-ray exclusive or release in both formats.

The HD DVD Promotion Group was planning a big press conference on sunday at the Consumer Electronics Association (CES) in Las Vegas, but that has been cancelled now:

Based on the timing of the Warner Home Video announcement today, we have decided to postpone our CES 2008 press conference scheduled for Sunday, January 6th at 8:30 p.m. in the Wynn Hotel. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

We are currently discussing the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD DVD partner companies and evaluating next steps. We believe the consumer continues to benefit from HD DVD's commitment to quality and affordability – a bar that is critical for the mainstream success of any format.

We'll continue to keep you updated on new developments around HD DVD

so now Newline Is Blu Ray only now and Toshiba Canceling there CES Keynote for HD i wonder if this means Toshiba is throwing in the towel now

 

[janstett]

I download my HD from the internet anyway. I could care less about HD-DVD or Blu-ray. I won't be purchasing any of those formats.

All the HD content I've downloaded are 1/4 1080 (960 x 540, 1/2 height x 1/2 width) with the exception of a 12 gig MKV of the Top Gear Polar Special I have that's 1080p and can barely play back on my quad core Mac Pro. And obviously they're ripped from cable boxes and only have DD 5.1 sound.

It's not as good as a good HD disc. Sorry.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Just return it. Store credit is better than nothing.

Unfortunately, I've already opened it, used it; and sent in the form to get the 5 free movies. Since I've removed the UPC and mailed it away, it means I can't return it to the store.

 

[jicon]

I don't have an HDDVD or BluRay player, but disc feature wise, HDDVD beats the pants out of BluRay. Compare special features on the different formats. HDDVD seems to offer much much more.

BluRay is a larger disc, but rushed to market before the disc format could be finalized. Only LAST WEEK were BluRay 1.1 discs available which gave picture in picture abilities.

I just don't know why people are happy to see the more expensive, less feature rich format win.

 

[janstett]

What's more there are no signs of higher than 1080p resolution HDTVs in the pipelines - let alone larger than DVI capable 1600p for monitors.

Settle down. The ATSC standard has been in the works for decades (I remember seeing it in a lab at Bellcore in 1990) and is only now starting widespread adoption. 1080p was just an extension of the existing 1080i provision, 1080p isn't technically even part of the ATSC spec.

Plus, they are working on higher standards, specifically 4K (twice the width and twice the height of 1080p). But really don't expect product for a decade. And then do you expect broadcast TV to fit such a signal in its current bandwidth? Hell no.

Technology is advancing in leaps and bounds in many areas but seems to be lagging behind in this.

TV does not change quickly. The NTSC standard we're still using was first shown at the 1939 World's Fair. The only major changes were the addition of color and stereo.

HDTV (ATSC) has been in the works for decades. It's only now ramping up into the mainstream. It won't be replaced any time soon.

The only hope is that as things become centered more around computers and less around televisions, the resolutions will go up.

 

[janstett]

I hope all the Blu-Ray fans love replacing Blu-ray disks when fingerprints and scratches cause playback issues due to the tighter track pitch and the 0.1 mm layer clear coat.

I remember people saying the same thing about DVD -- especially how they wouldn't stand up to rental. Ooops.

I'd rather have a looser and far more error tolerant pitch and thicker coating and backward compatibility.

Yes, that's exactly what I have on my mind when it's time to watch Pirates of the Caribbean -- does this disc have an error tolerant pitch and did the manufacturer have to retool their pressing facilities?

 

[krye]

To all that apply: I told you so!

 

[0098386]

All the HD content I've downloaded are 1/4 1080 (960 x 540, 1/2 height x 1/2 width) with the exception of a 12 gig MKV of the Top Gear Polar Special I have that's 1080p and can barely play back on my quad core Mac Pro. And obviously they're ripped from cable boxes and only have DD 5.1 sound.

It's not as good as a good HD disc. Sorry.

What? How odd. Last year my 12" PowerBook 1.5ghz G4 was looping a 1 hour long 1080p video I made nonstop for about 5 days and it managed that quite easily my C2D iMac flies through 1080p content too...
I used to download the Lost 720p versions too and my PowerBook could easily run them (though we're talking a lower res than 1080p of course).

I think your computer might be broke.

 

[AtHomeBoy_2000]

Like this

And sorry for the size

oh i love it!

 

[janstett]

It is relevant in that individual companies within the Sony conglomerate are not centrally controlled by Sony. If they were, Sony would have had a unified media strategy and they would not have sold their music on iTMS because it hurt their own online store and sales of their own music players.

I see what you're saying, but I don't think it's a very strong argument. Sony is like IBM used to be. One "face" but every division/site has its own agenda and is nearly an independent company.

I understand this. Hell, I've been to DLNA plugfests where Sony has multiple tables with what is basically the same product developed by different groups with in Sony, and that plugfest was probably the first time that people from the different teams met each other.

But overall I stand by my assertion that Sony, collectively, has been draconian with its DRM and copy protection, up and down the line.

 

[slffl]

I don't understand how one can "look" better than the other. They both look the same. The big difference is storage capacity.

I didn't say they look different. But there are differences in the experience.

- Splash screens on BD last twice as long as HD-DVD (ie FBI warning)
- If I change a setting such as from Dolby 5.1 to DTS in the middle of the movie, BD must start the movie over. HD-DVD doesn't.

Maybe these things differ in other titles, but IN MY EXPERIENCE, HD-DVD is 'better'.

What's YOUR experience with both?

BTW storage capacity is a non-issue.

 

[Macinposh]

Now for the quiz part : How will this affect microsoft?

As know MS was a fervent supporter of HD-DVD,many say only to make a stalemate between the two formats so long that MS could emerge victorious in the digital download arena they crave.

Now that the tide has turned what will happen to their plan?
What will happen to x-box?

Now that the HD-DVD production lines will start to wither,how will it effect their 360 support? Will the console prices go up? Game prices? Will it affect anything?
Curious.

 

[slffl]

I think Sony had this planned all along. Make a cheap BD player that supposedly plays games. Don't put out any games for it, so people have no other option than to spend their money on BD movies. Win the 'war'. Get royalties from BD to keep you in business from a crappy 'game' console.

God I hope this gets Sony focusing on games now. My PS3 is a huge paperweight.

 

[janstett]

I don't have an HDDVD or BluRay player, but disc feature wise, HDDVD beats the pants out of BluRay. Compare special features on the different formats. HDDVD seems to offer much much more.

That is because of some "inside baseball" -- the authoring tools for the Blu Ray interactivity layer were later to arrive. That is why Warner only released The Matrix trilogy and Batman Begins on HD-DVD and not Blu-Ray despite supporting both formats -- the interactivity layer for Blu-Ray wasnt where it needed to be. Now that is not an issue so those titles will show up on Blu-Ray.

 

[Nermal]

I guess my xBox 360 HD-DVD player from Christmas '06 and collection of HD-DVD's are going to be useless... Well, unless of course, I pay for an overpriced dual-format player

What? Your existing player won't magically stop working just because Warner has jumped ship

 

[Football1maniac]

Please tell me you aren't doing what you literally said -- because if so you're watching via COMPOSITE cables? Please tell me you're going through component and SPDIF. Otherwise you're watching everything downscaled to 480i and stereo. I won't comment on the Blose.

No, I use HDMI for the picture, then I use composite cables for the sound for the surround sound.

 

[janstett]

What? How odd. Last year my 12" PowerBook 1.5ghz G4 was looping a 1 hour long 1080p video I made nonstop for about 5 days and it managed that quite easily my C2D iMac flies through 1080p content too...
I used to download the Lost 720p versions too and my PowerBook could easily run them (though we're talking a lower res than 1080p of course).

I think your computer might be broke.

Here, have a go at it, maybe it has to do with Matroska or AVC:
http://www.mininova.org/tor/809672

it's an excellent video btw I recommed a watch. Two Top Gear presenters in a pickup truck race a third with a sled dog team to the magnetic north pole. Beautiful and entertaining!

By the way, I have HD cable rips of the Matrix, 2001, Spider-Man 1 & 2, and soon Star Wars IV-VI. In the case of Matrix and Spidey, I can definitely tell you the cable rips are not in the same league as the discs. I'm not even sure why I'm wasting the disk space on them now that I have the discs. Based on the artifacting it looks like the network may do an MPEG-2 encoding on-the-fly, and the sound is only DD 5.1. Once you've seen hand-encoded AVC and heard lossless surround sound, the cable rips look bad in comparison.

 

[Yuppi]

What? How odd. Last year my 12" PowerBook 1.5ghz G4 was looping a 1 hour long 1080p video I made nonstop for about 5 days and it managed that quite easily my C2D iMac flies through 1080p content too...
I used to download the Lost 720p versions too and my PowerBook could easily run them (though we're talking a lower res than 1080p of course).

I think your computer might be broke.

I don't think his computer is broke. If a 1080p works or not depends on many factors. One of them being the contents of the picture. The other one the bitrate. ALL current Macs do suffer one in my opinion HUGE disadvantage to Vista. They do not have a h264 hardware acceleration or a multicore capable video decode. So no matter how many cores you have it will always be only one that does the video decoding. And AVC is very easy to put a 100% load on those.

I tested several 1080p movies that are available online and have come to the conclusions that apple would need to enable AVIVO or PureVideo HD before they can be shown flawlessly.
Another annoyance is DD+ which currently can not be decoded or passed trough. But there is experimental support in MPlayer which unfortunately does not work very reliable for me.

MPEG-2 Streams run perfectly fine but have a higher bitrate to achieve the same quality. The matroska container is kind of a small problem too. Altough it is possible to put everything in a MP4 container.

My tip if you have trouble to play such a movie, try playing it on Vista in bootcamp and feel very bad to see that it runs perfectly with very very low CPU usage...

 

[beg_ne]

I didn't say they look different. But there are differences in the experience.

- Splash screens on BD last twice as long as HD-DVD (ie FBI warning)
- If I change a setting such as from Dolby 5.1 to DTS in the middle of the movie, BD must start the movie over. HD-DVD doesn't.

Maybe these things differ in other titles, but IN MY EXPERIENCE, HD-DVD is 'better'.

What's YOUR experience with both?

BTW storage capacity is a non-issue.

Splash Screens for Corpse Bride BD:
FBI Warning - 8 seconds
WB Logo / Sound - 6 Seconds
Rating Info - 4 Seconds
then Movie started playing...

You seriously are trying to argue that 18 seconds of splash screens at the beginning of a movie and switching sound settings in the middle of a movie(yeah i'm sure you do that like 20 times per each movie too...) are more important that more space on the disc?

 

[LethalWolfe]

Now for the quiz part : How will this affect microsoft?

As know MS was a fervent supporter of HD-DVD,many say only to make a stalemate between the two formats so long that MS could emerge victorious in the digital download arena they crave.

Now that the tide has turned what will happen to their plan?
What will happen to x-box?

Now that the HD-DVD production lines will start to wither,how will it effect their 360 support? Will the console prices go up? Game prices? Will it affect anything?
Curious.

I don't think it will effect MS all that much. IIRC HD-DVDs and SD-DVDs can be made by the same equipment (or at least the same equipment w/minor modifications) so there's not really an economic hit from that angle (360 games are DVD-9 discs anyway). Of course MS would love for HD-DVD to win out, but like you and others have said MS is ultimate looking beyond physical media. Downloadable movies via Xbox Live and the partnering w/Telecoms to use the 360 as an IPTV box shows you were MS is really settings it's sights, IMO.


Lethal

 

[neoelectronaut]

So what you are telling us is that you really don't have any experience with real HD. I thought so.

Not quite. What I'm telling you is that even though I work at a big box electronics store and are exposed to Blu-Ray and HD-DVD all day long, I don't see the big freaking deal over standard DVD.