HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray Battle Over? Warner Switches to Blu-Ray

[CaptainWOW]

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdxd
PS3 has been doing 1080p and 720p effortlessly since launch.

Just to "super-clarify" the PS3 didn't do 720p for blu-ray at launch. You had to set it to "1080i" for the first couple of months (and your TV might have down-converted it to 720p). If you checked only 720p in the setup menu the BD was down-rezzed to 480p. It wasn't until later that a firmware update allowed 720p for BD. Video games could always be played @ 720p... but originally movies could not. Not that it really matters but....

As a matter of fact there were a few things it couldn't do at launch. Upconvert DVDs for one....

Still, the PS3 turned into (with the help of firmware updates) an amazing piece of CE. I was so happy that it was upgradeable to Profile 1.1 (Aka "Bonus View"). And I look forward to the DTS-HD MA update soon (when ever it happens). Oh, and one day I look forward to that Profile 2.0 update as well.

As for the "format war" being over.... it pretty much is but, it isn't truly over until the fat lady sings (or in this case Universal, Dreamworks and Paramount start supporting Blu-ray..... which will be very soon, I think.)

 

[apple-science]

It was the greedy movie studios that caused this mess in the first place. Why should consumers have to choose between two incompatible standards? The content provider business depends on reselling you old content you already have. They do this usually by providing better quality or more convenience. Each of these attributes depends on new technology, hence they have to get into bed with hardware companies who have a similar dependence on the software/content companies. This interdependence can sometimes occur in one company (e.g. Sony, Steve Jobs is similarly schizophrenic) and the hoops they jump through as a result is often hilarious (witness ATRAC and the loss of the entire Walkman business).

So why are we applauding a company that contributed to the wasted dollars people spent on HD-DVD? Why didn't Warner make the announcement in the Fall before a bunch of HD-DVD hardware and content was sold?

It'll also be irrelevant to Microsoft in the long run. Their HD-DVD gambit was simply a cheap way to delay profits to a competitor (Sony) by stretching out the format "war" a little longer. There was no way both would survive and no games depend on the HD-DVD format. It won't disappear overnight but sales of new HD-DVD gear will dry up and the content will be relegated to back bins.

BluRay vs HD-DVD was about control, greed and corporate small-mindedness. Heads they win, tails we lose.

P.S. The PS3 is an awesome piece of hardware primarily because Sony had to include more tech than it ever intended to due to its concern for the competition from X-box (and it loses $$ on every unit as well as cannibalizing sales of stand-alone BR players). As a BluRay player, its currently the safest hedge on the market due to its specs and upgradability. The games are finally getting better too..... It's ironic that both games systems essentially use the same chip technology and both HD formats use similar encoders. Blue versus Red verses Green versus the User.

 

[Cleverboy]

I plan on either getting a PS3 or an AppleTV. MacWorld will likely decide that choice and lock it in by the middle of this month. If Apple released NOTHING, then I'll be getting a PS3 by the middle of this year, and using that for digital movie streaming instead (and get the windfall of other advantags, including a Blu-Ray player). It's certainly the total package.

~ CB

 

[CaptainWOW]

People seem to forget the 3+ disc TV Season DVD's or Box Set's etc that could all fit on ONE Blu-Ray disc. I'd rather have my entire Band of Brothers Collection (10 DVDs) on 1 or 2 Blu-Ray discs in HD.

The problem is that the studios could do what you describe but it's all about precieved value. The studios could do things that would make the entire season fit on one or two discs (look at Weeds). But, people think that they are getting more for their money if they see more discs. If you look at the newly released Lost: Season 3. The DVD set has six discs, the Blu-ray has six discs. The same goes for the HD DVD box set of Heroes. It had 7 discs, the same number as the DVD set.

Even if they could, I doubt studios would cram shows on one or two discs. Still, they do seem to be making the cases smaller so that helps with the space issue.

I don't know about anyone else but my DVD bookcase had to be expanded this Christmas because we ran out of room.

This happened to me as well. I just have to much crap....

Also, may I ask, why isn't Dreamworks included in the "pie chart". They may be part of Paramount but they are their own entity, just like Miramax is to Disney (and it has it's own pie piece).

 

[Shua]

It might have a decent Blu-ray player, but it's a lame gaming machine.

Actully Its a great gaming machine. More CPU and GPU power. It has a slow start as Sony jacked up and tried to break even on the hardware. They learned a lesson from Apple and droped the price and it has been selling at a good rate. (FYI I had a 360 since it was released)

Plus you can dload HD movies through the Xbox Live marketplace

HAHAHAHAHAHAH You can. But you don't own it. You can't export it. You can watch it on the 360 you bought it on or you can take your 360 to your friends house. With Media, I can take it anywhere I want. Lets talk about M$ track record of DRM! If you didn't notice on any of the Videos there is an experation field. Some day M$ could trigger it and guess what.. opps.. go bye bye.

PS3 is a nice paperweight that just happens to have a Blu-ray player in it.

I must disagree! Its a GREAT Blu-Ray player. Streophile gave it the best Blu-Ray player under $500.00 and it happens to play games too. Its upscalling is on scale with the $900.00 Blu-Ray players. Frankly I don't care if it plays games. It plays my DVDs and my Blu-Ray Discs.

I did get Assassin's Creed for $.01 (Thanks Worst Buy for matching Wally Marts and letting me choose my own game) but I don't have much interest in any of the games coming out exclusively for the PS3 Metal Gear Solid? Final Fantasy XIII, Little Big World?

I will wait to see what Grand Theft Auto has for extras on the 360 and the PS3 and I will make my choice. I hope the 360 will have better extras as I like the controller better then the PS3. It just feels cheep to me.

just MHO

 

[aristotle]

It was the greedy movie studios that caused this mess in the first place. Why should consumers have to choose between two incompatible standards?

Ironically, it was Warner and Toshiba that turned down Sony's and Panasonic's offer to have blu-ray adopted as DVD's successor in the DVD forum. This occurred long before HD DVD was even a standard or Toshiba had switched to using the blu-violet laser like blu-ray uses instead of a red laser for HD DVD (formerly known as AOD).

Toshiba was going to give up after the launch of blu-ray in North America when MSFT convinced them to keep going after after the BDA decided to use BD-Java instead of HDi for interactivity.

 

[mixel]

It might have a decent Blu-ray player, but it's a lame gaming machine. The Xbox 360 trumps the PS3 in terms of gaming. Plus you can dload HD movies through the Xbox Live marketplace, which is where this is all headed anyhow. The PS3 is a nice paperweight that just happens to have a Blu-ray player in it.

BS, if we're going on "number of quality titles" the PS2 trumps the 360. There are enough, and an increasing number of good PS3 games - it's as good a gaming investment as the 360.

There isn't as much software of any type for the Mac as there is Windows. Does that make it a lame productivity machine? Internet machine? Art machine? No.

To have all the good titles, you need ALL the systems. Has always been the case and likely always will. But.. Different people like different games! And there ARE PS3 games. (My current faves: Warhawk, COD4, Uncharted, Ratchet&Clank, SSDustHD) Go over to IGN and you'll see this "debate" played out ad infinitum.

Oh, and you think Sony with their huge catalogue aren't going to put downloadable movies in the Playstation store? When they've gone so far to set up the PS3 as a media centre? Sony are backing that distribution model too.

- And it already does DLNA streaming perfectly - I send my EyeTV and iTunes libraries to my livingroom HDTV & surround setup. It is a wonderful device that lets you do a lot. Easily expandable too.

.. and now a word from our sponsors.

 

[HDproducer]

I enjoy the interface of HD DVD more than blu-ray. And yes, keep in mind this announcement is for Warner for their release of movies.
HD DVD with 15 gigs, can have roughly 6-8 hours of video. This is plenty for any movie out there, i have yet to watch a film that is 6 hours long. Storage is indeed a non-issue for movies that are professionally released by studios.

It is really between, the consumer buying a studio disc, vs. the consumer creating their own discs, either video or data, which has nothing to do with this announcement.
The storage debate is only for people who want to do data or produce their own discs, and in this case, blu-ray is better. But for which is better to watch a feature film on, they are the same, because both will take up the same space regardless of how much you can put on the disc.

6-8 hours of SD video, not HD Video. And lets think ahead. We are already seeing reasonably priced 2K cameras. Does anyone think that 1080p is the end of the line. Sure it will be a long time before the FCC makes everyone in the US change formats again, but it won't be very long before you can get a 2K projector for your home theater at a reasonable price. And yes that is only for the hard core home theater, but so was HD two years ago, and High Def DVD still is.

Now look ahead a few more years to 4K home theater set ups. You could watch a movie in the native resolution it was made in. That 1 TB BD from hitachi is starting to look real good. HD-DVD has less capacity per layer and lower data rates. And when this starts to come to fruition, we will probalbly have another format war. Maybe we will have 2 TB flash drives by then!

Of course the same movie with the same encoded file on two different disks will look the same. But when you do that, you are encoding to the lowest common denominator, HD DVD. If the home theater market starts catching up to the movie theaters they will have to start offering something better. 3D comes to mind, maybe even smellevision! Just like movies switch to a wide screen format to compete against television in the '50s.

 

[jicon]

Do you think the majority of HD enthusiasts pay more for fancy PIP and internet capabilities or true high bitrate video and audio? Of the 400+ disks released on each format, find out what percentage of each format (BD and HD-DVD) have lossless surround sound. You will be surprised to find that the percentage is a lot higher for bluray. I know that HD-DVD standards were finalized first, but just because you are first to the market does not mean you are superior. The first Toshiba players (HD-A1 and XA1) were nothing but Pentium PCs running Linux with a HD-DVD drive. They were big, slow and very slow. That is how Toshiba rushed to the market. If you notice, Toshiba is a single source for HD-DVD players. BD has Philips, Samsung, Sony, Panasonic, Denon, Marantz, Sharp, etc. Also, BD disks are a lot more rugged than HD-DVD due to a proprietary coating. BDs have a lot higher max bitrate than HD-DVD. Panasonic is the primary IP holder of Bluray not Sony. So, quit spreading rumors that Bluray is Sony's format. Bluray is as much a Sony format as AAC is an Apple format. Also, the fact HD-DVD has so much microsoft technology makes me nervous.

I own a PS3 and it is fabulous. The video quality is top notch. It also plays SACDs, upscales SD-DVDs, upscales standard CDs from 44.1kHz to 176.4kHz (through HDMI). It also gets media from a media server. It has bluetooth and even plays quicktime movie trailers.

My argument was a little less on the hardware, and more on the authoring end of things.

Take a look at the extras available to HD-DVD and BluRay titles. BluRay for the most part are movie only. Is it that hard to author in extras that we see in most DVD titles today?

HD-DVD seems to be the only format pushing extras on to the discs. Sure, all that stuff could change in time, but the HD-DVD releases seem to be a better deal for the consumer over BluRay.

 

[winterspan]

You are leaving out other info.

There is no triple layer spec for blu-ray as of yet.

I want to make sure people have accurate facts when debating the war. The point for the HD DVD triple layer disk is to bring to light that you cannot argue one has more storage than the other.

1) No one even knows if the 51gb triple layer disc is backwards compatible with existing hddvd players.

2) Sony already announced its working on a quad layer 100gb bluray format. Granted its not an official format yet, but I'd bet that by the time hddvd ever got their triple layer format out, Sony would have their quad out too.

 

[Cooknn]

HD-DVD players have so much more capability right now than their Blu-ray counterparts. Blu-ray is inferior. This goes to show you how throwing around hundreds of millions of dollars can pay off anyone.

You mean like the $150 Million that the HD-DVD camp shelled out to pay off Paramount?

Who uses recordable DVD for anything but temporary storage? Recordable removable media is long dead as a storage format, and the capacity of Blu-Ray changes nothing.

It changes everything. There are now affordable 1080p camcorders on the market and with a Blu-Ray burner the home movie enthusiast will now have the ability to keep and play their movies in true Hi-Def.

 

[CaptainWOW]

My argument was a little less on the hardware, and more on the authoring end of things.

Take a look at the extras available to HD-DVD and BluRay titles. BluRay for the most part are movie only. Is it that hard to author in extras that we see in most DVD titles today?

HD-DVD seems to be the only format pushing extras on to the discs. Sure, all that stuff could change in time, but the HD-DVD releases seem to be a better deal for the consumer over BluRay.

Extras a great. They were one of the reasons that I went HD DVD first - PiP out of the box was really cool.

But, most studios (excluding the abomination known as Fox / MGM) have been pretty good with extras (after the bumpy beginning) and PiP is coming. Fox, on the other hand, just is a horrible studio - they charge $40 for barebones catalogue titles.....

I'd have no problem with a $20 BD with no extras - $40, nope! But, for the most part studios like Buena Vista and Warner have been very good about porting over the DVD features. Sure some titles end up with little or no extras but, at least (unlike Fox/MGM), these "extraless" discs have amazing PQ and advanced AVC/VC-1 encodes and cost what a catalogue should cost about $20.

 

[iCantwait]

so what is porn doing. Hd or blu

 

[CaptainWOW]

so what is porn doing. Hd or blu

Both.

Not that I know anything about that.

.....

Actually, in all seriousness, porn in HD has no appeal to me. And with the internet being what it is porn on disc is not really that important.

 

[Hunts121]

Well isn't that the biggest ball of FUD ever. And no, playing too many BD movies on your PS3 will "wear it out" is utter B.S.

yeah because that never happened on the PS2 or anything....

 

[CaptainWOW]

yeah because that never happened on the PS2 or anything....

Yes, but the drive in the PS2 was a piece of crap.

The BD drive in the PS3 on the other hand is actually of some quality.

 

[fdxd]

Turns out New Line are confirmed as Blu Ray only as well.

 

[Hattig]

Maybe because that extra memory isn't needed? Your paying more for storage that will never be used...at least in films.

I'd rather have cheaper HD-DVD players that have the same quality as expensive blu-ray players. HD-DVD replication costs less too.

Well Blu-Ray is not just better in terms of storage. It has a higher maximum possible bitrate of media (video + audio streams, etc), which means that a Blu-Ray only company can encode the film in better quality (usually they'll encode once so if they're both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD they'll encode for the lesser quality format).

Data transfer rate (data)
BD-ROM: 36.0Mbps
HD-DVD: 36.55Mbps

Data transfer rate (video/audio)
Blu-Ray: 54.0Mbps
HD-DVD: 36.55Mbps

Video resolution (max) , Video bit rate (max)
Blu-Ray: 1920×1080 (1080p) 40.0Mbps
HD-DVD: 1920×1080 (1080p) 28.0Mbps

And as for the cost of making the discs, that will not be an issue in a year or two, and I'd rather not compromise on quality now for a few cents. Especially when they'll be sold at such extortionate prices anyway.

 

[docprego]

I plan on either getting a PS3 or an AppleTV. MacWorld will likely decide that choice and lock it in by the middle of this month. If Apple released NOTHING, then I'll be getting a PS3 by the middle of this year, and using that for digital movie streaming instead (and get the windfall of other advantags, including a Blu-Ray player). It's certainly the total package.

~ CB

Wow I am having the same debate in my mind between these 2 devices. It would seem they are not comparable but for what I want it for they actually are:

1-SD DVD playback (Streaming SD DVD to Apple TV or direct playback in the PS3 upscaled)
2-Streaming other content from my Mac (possible with both)
3-Rentals (currently neither but Apple is supposed to unveil this in 2 weeks)
4-HD content (PS3 already plays blu-ray, hoping AppleTV gets some sort of HD content announced at Macworld.)

As of this moment the PS3 is the far superior device IMO, in 2 weeks who knows?

 

[zap2]

Actully Its a great gaming machine......and GPU power.

Check that out again

Xbox 360 GPU>PS3 GPU
XBOX 360 CPU<PS3 CPU

But yea, Blue Ray has it now. More players in homes(Blue Ray has PS3 to thank that), more movie support, better support from hardware company...HD DVD loses...but MS and Toshiba will keep fight for a little long. Toshiba because they think they will win, MS to mess up Sony's hopes

 

[Schmoe0013]

6-8 hours of SD video, not HD Video.

whoops, my memory wasn't as good as I thought. In this interview http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,136253-c,dvdtechnology/article.html
it is quoted as saying it is indeed 3-4 hours for HD video for 30 gigs.

And yeah, I can't wait for the 1440p TV's! Hell, when i build a new house, I'll just have one wall all oled or something! Ha

 

[billystlyes]

You can download the 2.10 firmware update that also gives it Blu-ray Profile 1.1 support, Divx support, you name it.

It sucks being an Apple TV, doesn't it. The PS3 is the best device out there.

 

[RichL]

You can even play online for free against people around the world ( keyword FREE ).

Sorry I got carried away.

Xbox Live cannot in any way be compared to the putrid garbage that is the PS3 online service. Paying $50 for one year is nothing when you are, in return, given a service like Live.

You did get carried away.

-Rich L.

 

[collinsra]

I think that the whole DVD thing will eventually go away. With technology being what it is, everyone will have digital movies. Buy from iTunes, put it on your appleTV, xbox360, ps3, or media center box. Thats what I vote...

 

[collinsra]

Xbox Live cannot in any way be compared to the putrid garbage that is the PS3 online service. Paying $50 for one year is nothing when you are, in return, given a service like Live.

You did get carried away.

-Rich L.

Here, here.