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HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray Battle Over? Warner Switches to Blu-Ray
- Thread starter hvfsl
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I have both. With the PS3, I could rip songs from CDs to its harddrive and play them. But that is not what I bought it for. Wtih the the Apple TV wanted a better music playing experience then my Airport Express (which I sold last Fall). I would not say that the PS3 is best device out there but the most capable.
XBox 360 and Wii are true dedicated video game consoles. PS3 attempts to be a personal computer (you can install Linux on it), video game console, movie player (DVD and Blu-ray), music player, etc...
Apple needs to enhance the "AppleTV" to include a Blu-Ray player that supports BD Profile 2.0, that includes Safari, and possibly play "iPod" games.
I would buy it in a heartbeat! I could either keep my PS3 or sell it. I only have one PS3 game disc and cheap PSN downloaded games. My only other PS3 commitment is the remote.
It's a weird thing, the XBox360 is very conventional, so the games were better quality immediately, and it does have a good GPU and a good CPU (in a conventional manner, the PS3 CPU is 1/3rd the XBox360 CPU, but then you have the 7 very powerful co-processors).
The PS3 is quite non-conventional, and it is taking a lot of time to get to grips with the guts (writing physics engines for the co-processors, etc). It does appear that overall it is more powerful potentially, but we won't see that for another year or so, like with the PS2 (Shadow Of The Colossus, etc).
I'm hoping that Apple will provide an external Blu-Ray drive option for their rumoured thin MacBook alongside an external Superdrive.
And that either of these drives could be plugged into the second generation Apple TV, which will also support full HD decode capability.
And lets hope that you can use this external with any Mac. I'd love to have a Blu-ray player for my MBP.
Unquestionably, not even an "opinion" (IMO, LOL). The only sad thing is knowing the "truth", which is that were Sony to sell the PS3 for what they would... simply to make money off of the device (like Apple does), then it would likely be nearing $900 or something. Apple's got a decent margin, but they're not looking to pay people to buy their products. At least not yet. Right now, the ONLY value-proposition over the PS3 is being able to play iTunes content, integration with iTunes, and its interface (you don't even get any "MacOS" fall-over because its closed). Which is just SAD.
Along with many others, I will be embarrassed for Apple if they release no major Apple TV update this month. PS3 even works with my standard definition television, while Apple won't. That said, I wouldn't dream of getting the NetGear Entertainer HD either (which is on worse footing in my opinion).~ CB
Unquestionably, not even an "opinion" (IMO, LOL). The only sad thing is knowing the "truth", which is that were Sony to sell the PS3 for what they would... simply to make money off of the device (like Apple does), then it would likely be nearing $900 or something. Apple's got a decent margin, but they're not looking to pay people to buy their products. At least not yet. Right now, the ONLY value-proposition over the PS3 is being able to play iTunes content, integration with iTunes, and its interface (you don't even get any "MacOS" fall-over because its closed). Which is just SAD.
~ CB
I recall that the $900 was cost at launch. I suspect that Sony is either close to breaking even now or possibly even making a slight profit. Not bad when you add up all of its capabilities. Seems that the price cut and the 40 GB model are pumping up sales, so it will be interesting to see if the PS3 closes the sales gap with Xbox by this time next year.
W/the PS3 only a year old I'd be very surprised if it was close to the break-even point let alone turning profitable.
Lethal
I noticed that in the store, and I groaned ("D'Oh!'d", actually) when I saw it on the back of the box.
However, when I got it home and played it, my player reported it as an AVC disc.
I concurr with your post. Very few of my Blu-Rays are MPEG-2. Mostly just the older ones.
Can't stand up for their format anymore = official news very shortly of it going in the can.
yeah, you are right, I was thinking of the $599 old price vs the original estimate of $900.
Anyway, here's a article that does a good analysis of Sony's PS3 strategy. The only glitch I see is the lack of some big blockbuster games, but that should happen this year.
It's 480 Microsoft Points for an HD movie. That converts to about $6 USD. Not exactly a great deal but the HD quality is amazing especially since it was streaming over my wireless network and I could start playing the movie while it was downloading.
I do use DVD-RAM for long-term archival because of the random access aspects of it, but HD-DVD-RAM has not yet been created. However, I also use multiple HDDs because you are correct in that for large data sets, it is faster and cheaper (or cheap enough).
That being said, it is easier and cheaper to mail a recordable optical disc then an HDD. Also, if I want to send a movie I shot of a family event to the relatives, they can watch it much easier on a recordable DVD they can drop into their DVD player then a HDD they need to install in their computer.
So I expect their to be demand for the recordable versions of both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.
On the little text scroll ticker top right of the screen on the PS3, it says Hurray Blu-Ray. ¬_¬
One thing to remember is that the AppleTV has a Geforce 7300M. Technically it can play back MPEG4 level whatever with hardware decode upto 1080P. However, Apple have never really played the game when it come to OS level hardware decode support like MS has with DXVA etc. Why go for a Geforce 7300M when it would have been many $$ cheaper to go for a lesser integrated Intel?
Shame that Accellent http://www.defyne.org/dvb/accellent.html and the work done by Nigel for mythtv never got far http://cvs.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/1279 developed as a hardware accelerated Quicktime codec.
Apple have something big planned for ATV v1, i dont think we'll see a second revision for a while. It's more than powerful for anything Apple are likely to throw at it.
???
I don't get why people here are such Sony fans. As far as I can tell Blu-Ray is just an unnecessary format cooked up and then shoved down the consumers thoats with the PS3 in order to be able to make the next generation of media disc completely proprietary. This is always bad for the consumer. And in this case, BDs and BD players already cost susbtantially more than HD-DVD discs even during the fierce battle. HD-DVDs can be manufacturered with largely the same equipment and processes as DVDs and the storage layer is at a safe depth rather than being insanely close to the outside surface and commensurately scratch vulnerable.
Once the war is over there will be little incentive for Sony to continue to reduce prices as much as it can. Rather, it will be in their interest to keep them as high as possible. And for what? A couple hundred MBs or whatever when the same movies could fit just as well on HD-DVD which is cheaper to manufacturer and more durable? Apple wanted to get out of the Bluray commitment once they realized PS3 was not a homerun and that, thus, the industry would have no choice but to go with the Sony format. Now I suppose they'll switch back to Bluray, but I really see much to be happy about here.
Do you guys get that HD-DVDs hold HD movies just as well as BD while being much cheaper and more durable? And this is before the many many layer versions of these discs. Who cares about storage beyond that when 500GB hard drives that are about 1000x as fast as any optical drive cost $100?
I don't get why people here are such Sony fans. As far as I can tell Blu-Ray is just an unnecessary format cooked up and then shoved down the consumers thoats with the PS3 in order to be able to make the next generation of media disc completely proprietary. This is always bad for the consumer. And in this case, BDs and BD players already cost susbtantially more than HD-DVD discs even during the fierce battle. HD-DVDs can be manufacturered with largely the same equipment and processes as DVDs and the storage layer is at a safe depth rather than being insanely close to the outside surface and commensurately scratch vulnerable.
Once the war is over there will be little incentive for Sony to continue to reduce prices as much as it can. Rather, it will be in their interest to keep them as high as possible. And for what? A couple hundred MBs or whatever when the same movies could fit just as well on HD-DVD which is cheaper to manufacturer and more durable? Apple wanted to get out of the Bluray commitment once they realized PS3 was not a homerun and that, thus, the industry would have no choice but to go with the Sony format. Now I suppose they'll switch back to Bluray, but I really see much to be happy about here.
Do you guys get that HD-DVDs hold HD movies just as well as BD while being much cheaper and more durable? And this is before the many many layer versions of these discs. Who cares about storage beyond that when 500GB hard drives that are about 1000x as fast as any optical drive cost $100?
HD-DVD on Blu-Ray...
I think the sensible thing for any hardware manufacturer to do from here on out is to make a decent hybrid player that will continue to support HD-DVD's, even if that format dies. It can't be that hard to do, as the physical discs themselves both work with blue lasers, and are of the same size and material. The real hardship is for these players to use both BD-J and HDi on the same machine, as that's where the underlying competition really is.
If Microsoft will allow for HDi to work in Blu-Ray players side by side with BD-J, then we're in business. This is currently why hybrid players don't work fully yet with both formats.
Don't get me wrong. I'm sad that HD-DVD took this kind of a blow. I don't want a movie studio who develops/makes hardware to have that kind of control over the marketplace. That's just going to empower the MPAA even more than we want. And I know none of us really want that to happen.
But if Blu-Ray is to knock HD-DVD out, I hope the next gen players support both discs fully. I don't want to have to buy the Bourne trilogy again (I have about 28 HD-DVD's already, and don't want to buy them all over). I put a lot of faith into HD-DVD for many reasons, mostly in inexpensive licensing fees and lack of movie studio control. But Blu-Ray is in the PS3 natively, and that seemed to work, getting the player into more homes. Even into homes without an HDTV yet. Plus, as I said earlier, Blu-Ray has the cooler name.
And for the fans of Beta, Mini-Disc and the like, those formats lost due to Sony's licensing fees. It would have jacked up the prices of other studio's/label's releases, just to cover the expense. So, as it was in the Beta vs VHS war, the lesser expensive and lesser quality option won. That being VHS. Sony was too expensive. That being said, I'm not saying that HD-DVD is of lesser quality by any means.
And before I get the BD fan boy barking at me, I know that Blu-Ray is a consortium. But it was Sony's brainchild first. Then Pioneer came in to help out. Then others followed. But Sony was first. It's Sony, Sony and more Sony.
So how much does anyone think Warner Bros was paid to give up HD-DVD?
I think the sensible thing for any hardware manufacturer to do from here on out is to make a decent hybrid player that will continue to support HD-DVD's, even if that format dies. It can't be that hard to do, as the physical discs themselves both work with blue lasers, and are of the same size and material. The real hardship is for these players to use both BD-J and HDi on the same machine, as that's where the underlying competition really is.
If Microsoft will allow for HDi to work in Blu-Ray players side by side with BD-J, then we're in business. This is currently why hybrid players don't work fully yet with both formats.
Don't get me wrong. I'm sad that HD-DVD took this kind of a blow. I don't want a movie studio who develops/makes hardware to have that kind of control over the marketplace. That's just going to empower the MPAA even more than we want. And I know none of us really want that to happen.
But if Blu-Ray is to knock HD-DVD out, I hope the next gen players support both discs fully. I don't want to have to buy the Bourne trilogy again (I have about 28 HD-DVD's already, and don't want to buy them all over). I put a lot of faith into HD-DVD for many reasons, mostly in inexpensive licensing fees and lack of movie studio control. But Blu-Ray is in the PS3 natively, and that seemed to work, getting the player into more homes. Even into homes without an HDTV yet. Plus, as I said earlier, Blu-Ray has the cooler name.
And for the fans of Beta, Mini-Disc and the like, those formats lost due to Sony's licensing fees. It would have jacked up the prices of other studio's/label's releases, just to cover the expense. So, as it was in the Beta vs VHS war, the lesser expensive and lesser quality option won. That being VHS. Sony was too expensive. That being said, I'm not saying that HD-DVD is of lesser quality by any means.
And before I get the BD fan boy barking at me, I know that Blu-Ray is a consortium. But it was Sony's brainchild first. Then Pioneer came in to help out. Then others followed. But Sony was first. It's Sony, Sony and more Sony.
So how much does anyone think Warner Bros was paid to give up HD-DVD?
I'm VERY certain neither Xbox 360 or the PS3 actually make a profit for either company in total cost of manufacture. Moreover, I don't think that will change anytime soon. The next boxes will be exactly the same. I think the only Playstation being sold at a profit now, is the PS2. Stark contrast to Nintendo and Apple. Just my gut and following how this has gone though.
~ CB
Regarding the PS3 - From Wikipedia: At launch the high manufacturing costs for the PS3 meant that every unit was sold at a loss of approximately $250. Since that time the minimum cost reduction has been calculated to be $127, so Sony is still showing a loss of about $123 per unit sold.
Microsoft has practically unlimited money -- certainly much more than Sony. If they have decided not to sweeten the HD-DVD deal for studios the way Sony has with Warner and others, then they must not think the war is an important one. I tend to agree. It seems like just another big pissing contest for Sony to me. The same kind that had them completely miss the boat with the PS3 while Ninendo hit the nail right on the head.
The actual volume of people that will be buying these discs is not going to be commensurate with all the hell and highwater Sony has gone through to shove the format down the consumer's thoat.
With the low cost of hard drives, the demonstrated much lower than anticipated level of interest in hd from Joe Blow, and the still high price of HD tvs, I just don't see this format becoming widespread before a vastly superior one comes along.
In other words, this looks like Laserdisc 2 to me.
The actual volume of people that will be buying these discs is not going to be commensurate with all the hell and highwater Sony has gone through to shove the format down the consumer's thoat.
With the low cost of hard drives, the demonstrated much lower than anticipated level of interest in hd from Joe Blow, and the still high price of HD tvs, I just don't see this format becoming widespread before a vastly superior one comes along.
In other words, this looks like Laserdisc 2 to me.
I'm glad about this - good to see the best format win.. I mean that from an archival and "what I'd like to see replacing DVD-R" perspective... As well as a home entertainment one.
Also region coding isnt a huge issue sofar on BD, a lot (certainly all of the BDs I have) don't even have it enabled.
So you actually bought the same movies for both formats? That's the only way you'd have a valid comparison. BD supports the same codecs as HD-DVD, it was only to begin with that it used mpg2, they both use h.264 now.
To all extents and purposes there's no reason for them not to look identical.
Well, no, haha, but I've watched a good amount of movies on both. HD DVD movies tend to look extremely sharp, though blur more when the screen moves, while Blu Ray movies look consistent even when the screen is moving, but don't look as sharp when the screen stops moving. I was guessing that this had to do with the h.264 vs mpeg2, where mpeg2 won't look as good as h.264, but will have less compression.
Get your facts straight. BD existed in Japan even before HD-DVD came about. In fact, Panasonic is the original patent holder for BD not Sony. All the consumer electronics companies decided BD was the future, except for Toshiba. Why do you think all companies make BD players and yet only Toshiba makes HD-DVD. DVD-Forum adopted HD-DVD as the successor to their DVD that does not make them the only choice. DVD Forum is not the only sheriff in town. BD movies cost same or less than HD-DVD to the consumer. They may cost a few cents more to manufacture (with that difference coming down everyday). So, looks like you have some reading to do.
It's because the "other" side is by Microsoft, and regardless that it is the last American company in the console business, people on here enjoy to see them fail. As a consumer we should be glad that someone has given Sony competition, otherwise they would have quite the hold on the market.