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Big difference, You did not need a new TV. Until a person is going to buy a new TV there is no reason to get an HD format player.

Had VCD taken off it would have buried DVD. It was just 10 years ahead of its time.

Well with the digital transition in 2009, people are either going to have to buy convertor boxes or new televisions, and I'm guessing most of the people with older tvs are going to just buy a new TV rather than having to deal with a converter box.

Also, VCD was crap and never even had a shot because the quality was awful. There's no way you'd be able to convert people from one format to the other when the quality was exactly the same.

I'm sure it would have looked great being upconverted to 1080p. :)

Oh yah. Youtube (same res as vcd) looks great upscaled to 1080p too :D /sarcasm
 
So kind of a crazy question (but a good one I think)...

Say that Toshiba ends up striking some sort of deal with Blu-Ray. I know that right now the two formats are not compatible. Is this some sort of PHYSICAL incompatibility or it is some sort of firmware incompatibility? Is it possible that if a deal were struck that current HD-DVD players could eventually read Blu-Ray DVDs as well with a simple update?
 
Big difference, You did not need a new TV. Until a person is going to buy a new TV there is no reason to get an HD format player.

Had VCD taken off it would have buried DVD. It was just 10 years ahead of its time.

VCD looked like a$$. I was joking about that.

I'm still watching BluRay disks on a 25" Standard Definition Sony Trinitron TV, connected via composite. It still looks better than a regular DVD. To me, it's like looking at a full bandwidth Quadruplex VTR. (Or perhaps a 1" Type-C machine)
 
Well with the digital transition in 2009, people are either going to have to buy convertor boxes or new televisions, and I'm guessing most of the people with older tvs are going to just buy a new TV rather than having to deal with a converter box.

Also, VCD was crap and never even had a shot because the quality was awful. There's no way you'd be able to convert people from one format to the other when the quality was exactly the same.
People might not want to pay 2 grand for a nice HDTV they would rather pay the 200 for the converter.

VCD was still a step up from VHS, and that was way before DVD.
 
I feel I will be the only one who didn't just got super-excited-oh-my-god-oh-my-god here, but well, I hate blu-ray.

because of one thing - regions. DVD has this stupid regions and it is making me mad. Blu-Ray has 3 regions, which is better than six (DVD), but HD-DVD has none. Nothing. No regions at all. Simple.

Why the f**k I cannot buy Blu-Ray on eBay from USA and then play it in Europe? Or Australia? Who the f**k did invent this faggotry? Yes, most of the blu-ray releases is only for region A. And I am not from North America, Central America, South America, Japan, Taiwan, North Korea, South Korea, Hong Kong, or Southeast Asia.

and last thing I don't get is why you all celebrate Blu-Ray is the winner (I guess the war is nearly over). Is it because Microsoft supported HD-DVD? so what? It doesn't have these stupid regions and that's what I care most.

Region coding is done differently in Bluray compared to DVDs. For Bluray disks, you can have one, two or three regions selected. Most of the movies coming till now are region free. However, the studios want to retain region coding for situation where it is warranted. For example, the movie Hairspray is still playing in theaters in Europe. However, it is released as region A DVD in the US. I have no problems with this.
 
People might not want to pay 2 grand for a nice HDTV they would rather pay the 200 for the converter.

VCD was still a step up from VHS, and that was way before DVD.

HDTV's aren't 2 grand anymore. You can get a decent one for like 500 bucks. Hell, I got my BRAVIA for $699 from B&H


"Overall picture quality is intended to be comparable to VHS video, though VHS has twice as many scanlines (approximately 480 NTSC and 580 PAL) and therefore double the vertical resolution. Poorly compressed video in VCD tends to be of lower quality than VHS video, but VCD exhibits block artifacts rather than analog noise, which may be preferable." (wikipedia: vcd)
 
Including video game consoles, 2.7 million Blu-ray Disc players have sold vs. 750,000 HD DVD players in North America as of Dec. 1, say associations for both standards.

When you bring other countries into the mix, that's bound to be over a million HD DVD players. That's not a small amount of people to leave "out in the cold" so it'll be interesting to see what happens.

I own an HD DVD player and 17 discs, and I will continue to buy HD DVD movies whenever possible. They're cheaper (I can import HD DVDs from the US for cheaper than buying either format locally) and they will continue to work in my "dead format" player.

My prediction is that Toshiba and MS will talk Universal into getting rid of standard DVDs and replacing all of them with the combo format. I don't know how much change that will make in the long run but it should give the format a little more life.
 
HDTV's aren't 2 grand anymore. You can get a decent one for like 500 bucks. Hell, I got my BRAVIA for $699 from B&H


"Overall picture quality is intended to be comparable to VHS video, though VHS has twice as many scanlines (approximately 480 NTSC and 580 PAL) and therefore double the vertical resolution. Poorly compressed video in VCD tends to be of lower quality than VHS video, but VCD exhibits block artifacts rather than analog noise, which may be preferable." (wikipedia: vcd)
You could argue that VCD set the stage for DVD.

If you want a good HDTV you are going to spend more then a 1000.

Why didn't they push the combo format sooner?
 
I'm glad about this - good to see the best format win.. I mean that from an archival and "what I'd like to see replacing DVD-R" perspective... As well as a home entertainment one.

Also region coding isnt a huge issue sofar on BD, a lot (certainly all of the BDs I have) don't even have it enabled.

:D I love how there have been a couple of sulky 360 fans in the thread.. "Why are people being pro PS3!!" .. You expect people on a Mac forum to side with Microsoft? When Microsoft are trying to peddle inferior an spec/standard.. AGAIN?

I dunno, I own a ps3 and a 360 with the HD DVD player, and I haven't watched a single Blu Ray movie that looks as good as the HD DVD movies I have. This is on a 720p television, but 1080i looks the best on it, since then it shows native at 1300whatever by 800whatever pixels.

HD DVD just looks better to me, period. Is it the h.264? Blu Ray does mpeg2 like DVD, right? Can't Blu Ray do h.264 also? Are any of them using it yet?

So you actually bought the same movies for both formats? That's the only way you'd have a valid comparison. BD supports the same codecs as HD-DVD, it was only to begin with that it used mpg2, they both use h.264 now.

To all extents and purposes there's no reason for them not to look identical.
 
You could argue that VCD set the stage for DVD.

If you want a good HDTV you are going to spend more then a 1000.

Why didn't they push the combo format sooner?

Keep in mind that the first color televisions cost about the same as an automobile back in the 1950's. Things have changed somewhat in the consumer electronics industry in the last 50 years.
 
Keep in mind that the first color televisions cost about the same as an automobile back in the 1950's. Things have changed somewhat in the consumer electronics industry in the last 50 years.
As long as the digital switch happens in Feb 09 without being pushed back again, that is when we will see a true winner. When more people make a switch to HD next winter the numbers should change. If they don't move as much then we have more to talk about.
 
My prediction is that Toshiba and MS will talk Universal into getting rid of standard DVDs and replacing all of them with the combo format.

MS isn't going to do anything about HD-DVD. They said before if BR won, they'd come out with a Blu-Ray 360 Add-on. MS is in no way committed to HD-DVD.

I've read some things to suggest that MS picked HD-DVD just to try to make the war more complicated in order to try to push digital downloads.
 
I love how there have been a couple of sulky 360 fans in the thread.. "Why are people being pro PS3!!" .. You expect people on a Mac forum to side with Microsoft? When Microsoft are trying to peddle inferior an spec/standard.. AGAIN?

I did read somewhere that Microsoft's software that runs the HD-DVD menu systems was quite good. I've not see one myself to comment. It sounds like something that would be easy to port to BluRay or vice-versa.

Also; with Microsoft making the HD-DVD drive an "option" for the 360. Perhaps they too were hedging their bets against HD-DVD. Why couldn't they *also* sell a BluRay option for the 360.

Just thinking here..
 
They said before if BR won, they'd come out with a Blu-Ray 360 Add-on. MS is in no way committed to HD-DVD.

I've read some things to suggest that MS picked HD-DVD just to try to make the war more complicated in order to try to push digital downloads.

I'd heard the part about the downloads war. I hadn't heard the part about the BluRay add-on. Interesting.
 
You should tell them that it's 2008 and people get their porn from bittorrent now.

Oh, and Sony isn't the only one who developed blu-ray (they were pretty much the sole developers of betamax)

Yeah, that's awesome and all. But it's still mostly Sony's baby, over anyone else's. There were others in the kitchen when Blu-Ray was being developed. But Sony was the head chef.

As for porn distribution, bittorrent is the obvious choice for anyone in any media business to roll with, as it's proven to be the profit bomb! Not really. Bittorrent is still being fought, as it's being abused by the end user every day. By the end of the day, torrenting copywritten media is still theft, whether you see it that way or not. Taking something for free that's meant to be sold, without valid authorization, is stealing in any country.

Sorry. They call me Captain Obvious around here.
 
I don't care who wins or loses because neither is getting my money. I find it all a waste of money. Those formats won't last very long anyways because the next generation is already being worked out. I'm more excited about Apple's rumored download service.

No disrespect but my guess is you dont own any HD television in your home. Because if you had one , you would not had this quote as your reply.

A good upscaling dvd player a few months ago is around $150.

A PS3 is $399. Divx, CD, DVD ( it upscales like a $2000 dollar Onkyo THX Dvd player that I bought and later returned after trying this) , Blu-ray player. It plays video games ( in High -def , believe that? 1080p). You can even play online for free against people around the world ( keyword FREE ).
You can surf the web too. You can upgrade the hard drive up to whatever size Gb (2.5 Sat hard drive) is available to store pictures , music, ( and I think movies too..haven't really researched about it yet ) Connect with your network to be able to sync with your computer files like pictures and mp3's. I also heard of the DVR coming soon. And if you have a PSP... ok ok , I know..I'll stop already. But you get my point though?
It's a pretty decent High def player to compliment any HDTV's and enjoy watching movies with with your family ( the reason why I got it in the first place ) for the price. And the most important thing.... We are enjoying this wonderful technology called HD ..NOW.

Sorry I got carried away.
 
I can't really get excited about this news.

Right now a decent DVD player with a nice upscaler connected to a good Flat screen produces great results anyway, why go to the expense of buying a new box and replacement content?

Of more interest to me is the expansion of HD content on Sky over here in the UK and a move towards streaming/rental downloading in general, plus a hoped for foray by Apple into home networking/home media server (a pumped up mac mini or Apple TV maybe?).

Digital is the future, getting worked up about shiny discs just seems so 'old'.
Vanilla
 
BD *and* HD-DVD addons for the 360 are a non-starter.. Few people are going to want a BD addon for the 360 and they only bought HD-DVD addons for it to save money on a standalone player.. The 360 is far too loud to use as a good home cinema setup however nice the menus and 360 interface are. :/

By the time BD addon for the 360 could be an option stand-alone BD players will be cheap enough for MS not to bother.

Maybe they'll make a 360.5 with integrated HD-DVD - while it's an optional extra they can't use it for games. If the floor collapses under HD-DVD I really wonder what MS will do next.
 
As far as I can tell, the studios have a major incentive to settle on a single format, and despite the cries of "the war is over" I don't think we're there yet. As long as this continues, people are going to stick with standard def, and as long a people stick with standard def the torrents are going to be a tempting option.

HD is what will buy the studios some refuge from illegal downloads. Right now, there's little penalty for downloading a movie-- it's not unreasonable to download a few GB. Downloading and storing 50GB is a chore and people will be more likely to buy the physical media. As long as they bicker back and forth over trivially different formats, they're bleeding revenue.

Question to the people who follow this most closely: is there any risk that Europe goes one way and the US goes a different way? NTSC v PAL, region encoding and the rest have been a royal pain-- I'd hope we finally just agree that the differences aren't worth the hassle...
What are you trying to say? Except for Toshiba, all of the CE's support Blu-ray either exclusively or non-exclusively and all studios except Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks support Blu-ray exclusively.

We already have one format and that is Blu-ray.
Looks to me like 30-40% of available titles are HD-DVD. Doesn't sound like one format to me...
They have. Blu-ray has been consistently outselling HD-DVD of the same titles. 300 BR outsold HD-DVD like 3-1 or something, and that's why Warner is now BR exclusive.

Up-conversion is pretty much a marketing gimmick to get you to spend more on a dvd player. You can't replace resolution and picture information that's not already there.
Agreed on the second point, but using 300 as a reference seems a bit suspect to me... 300 strikes me as the kind of movie that every single PS3 owner would buy-- it just fits the demographic.
So kind of a crazy question (but a good one I think)...

Say that Toshiba ends up striking some sort of deal with Blu-Ray. I know that right now the two formats are not compatible. Is this some sort of PHYSICAL incompatibility or it is some sort of firmware incompatibility? Is it possible that if a deal were struck that current HD-DVD players could eventually read Blu-Ray DVDs as well with a simple update?
Not a crazy question. I don't think it would be a simple firmware update, but combo players would become much cheaper. I think the major expense in the dual format players is licensing-- that would fall away once one party or the other capitulated. Both sides would have an interest in minimizing the pain after a victor is declared-- lest the next format war leave people even more hesitant to buy.
I'm glad about this - good to see the best format win.. I mean that from an archival and "what I'd like to see replacing DVD-R" perspective... As well as a home entertainment one.

Also region coding isnt a huge issue sofar on BD, a lot (certainly all of the BDs I have) don't even have it enabled.

So you actually bought the same movies for both formats? That's the only way you'd have a valid comparison. BD supports the same codecs as HD-DVD, it was only to begin with that it used mpg2, they both use h.264 now.

To all extents and purposes there's no reason for them not to look identical.
Latent "features" leave me more wary than active features. If region encoding is possible but not used, that just means that nobody wants to tarnish the format by employing it-- once the format war is over, you can expect this little nuisance to be used widely.

I've seen the "BD/HD-DVD is superior" and the "both formats are essentially the same" arguments given back and forth through the thread, but this is the first post I've seen to use both arguments essentially side by side...
 
IMO this is great news and will be looked back on as the deal that broke HD-DVD. This makes 4 major movie companies on board for Blu-ray compared to only two for HD-DVD. The current sales are already at about 65-35 in favor of Blu-ray and this decision is going to add at least another 10-15% to the Blu-ray side. The reason this will make a big difference is because of stores like Best Buy and other electronics stores. When a normal customer is looking at HD media and asks what the advantages are or wants to look at the number of movies available on each format, pretty much everything will point to Blu-ray. Lets not forget that Blockbuster is also carrying Blu-ray almost exclusively now and this will also swing buyers towards Blu-ray. At this point something catastrophic would have to happen in order for HD-DVD to stand a chance as the industry favorite and eventual winner. Porn on HD-DVD may add to some sales, but these days porn can be found all over the internet and will not help HD-DVD nearly as much as some think.

Eventually the few remaining exclusive HD-DVD companies will not be able to ignore the numbers. Sure HD-DVD may be cheaper to produce, but when well over 70% of sales are with Blu-ray, the lost profit won't be worth the saved production expense. HD-DVD has put up a nice fight, but like most people knew from the start, Blu-ray is the better platform. Also, the whole dual HD format thing is stupid! All movies should be released on the same format in order to maximize sales. A consumer should not have to buy two different players or a more expensive player that can play dual formats, simply to watch Transformers and Spider-Man in HD.
 
Latent "features" leave me more wary than active features. If region encoding is possible but not used, that just means that nobody wants to tarnish the format by employing it-- once the format war is over, you can expect this little nuisance to be used widely.
True, it's in the HD-DVD spec now too, so whichever was to win, it will still be an issue.

Region coding really annoys me, I hope they don't use it excessively - I really liked being in the same DVD region as Japan in the UK.. However little sense it made geographically it was excellent for imports. :D

I've seen the "BD/HD-DVD is superior" and the "both formats are essentially the same" arguments given back and forth through the thread, but this is the first post I've seen to use both arguments essentially side by side...
Well, it's not as simple as people seem to want it to be.. For home cinema, for most movies they are potentially identical now (not really taking in to account extras etc).. Nobody is getting a "better home cinema experience" by choosing one format over the other.. The movie part should be identical.

But as something I want to backup/burn stuff to, and in terms of available hardware (including the PS3) I'm all for BD. :)
 
Man why are there so many PS3 fans here? I don't want to start a commotion but the 360 is my choice for a lot of reasons. The PS3 is a software developing nightmare anyway. This new years news was upsetting for me but hopefully MS will release a blu-ray player if it does end up being the standard.

I thought HD was better quality? That's what the tests showed to the best of my knowledge. Cheaper too.

-RichL

I agree, I love my 360 and mainly got it for Halo 3...not because I like Microsoft. I've heard a-lot of negative things about the PS3 (initial pricing totally turned me off for a while) which is why I decided not to go with one.

Regarding the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray thing...I honestly don't give a s*** who wins, just as long as one format wins over the other. The differences between them don't matter to me...especially considering how meager they are.
 
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