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HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray [misc discussion]
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Siemova
macrumors member
Interesting article about the format war over at Roughly Drafted this week. Makes one think twice about HD-DVD... Well, me, anyway. 😛
Whew! Glad I'm not an early adopter. Now, as soon as I'm sure that these new-fangled flat screen TVs aren't just a fad I'll upgrade my 1985 19" Blue-screen Mitsubishi - with remote! Cutting edge in its day.
zap2
macrumors 604
Really!
That was a good read, and makes BlueRay look much better, its clearly better, if not more expensive.
And its still going to win, IMO. I hope Toshiba gives up, and Paramount and Dreamworks go back to BlueRay
Although the Paramount announcement happened a couple of weeks ago, there was still some very interesting information in that article. I didn't know that the existing BD releases would not be reprinted, and I also didn't know that BD50 had such terrible yields.
I own an HD DVD drive and 6 movies, and I plan to buy more soon. I like being able to import movies from the US without worrying about region codes, and as a developer I plan to have a dabble in HDi when I have a bit of free time 🙂
I had a bit of a laugh the other day when I was looking around on Microsoft's site. It had a set of fonts that you could use on HD DVDs and redistribute freely. The rules stated "You may NOT redistribute these fonts in any other applications, programs, etc. You can use them on HD DVD, but not the other high definition format." (MS' emphasis) 😀
I own an HD DVD drive and 6 movies, and I plan to buy more soon. I like being able to import movies from the US without worrying about region codes, and as a developer I plan to have a dabble in HDi when I have a bit of free time 🙂
I had a bit of a laugh the other day when I was looking around on Microsoft's site. It had a set of fonts that you could use on HD DVDs and redistribute freely. The rules stated "You may NOT redistribute these fonts in any other applications, programs, etc. You can use them on HD DVD, but not the other high definition format." (MS' emphasis) 😀
mrgreen4242
macrumors 601
You'll probably be able to get them with a downloadable media type, but it'll be an additional micro-transaction. $2 for the deleted scenes, please. $1 for the directors commentary. $1 for each alternate ending. $3 for the behind the scenes featurette. Take a look at Guitar Hero and Gran Turismo 5 for some examples.
The added copyright protect of downloadable content also concerns me. You can buy a DVD/HDDVD/BD and take it to a friends place to watch it, or just plain loan it to them. Not so with downloads; they will almost certainly be linked to a single playback device, or at the very least an account system which will require online authorization like iTMS. No thanks.
I've been thinking more an more about this and I think that the real winner of the HD format war will be DVD. A single unified format could have knocked DVD out given some time. This market and consumer confusion, though, is going to make people stick with DVD longer rather than risk getting stuck in a "dead" format. For me the choice went a little like "$300 for an HD set top box, or $300 for a terabyte of HDDs to create a streaming on demand library of all my DVDs". I picked the HDDs. I'll snag an HDDVD add on for my 360 when I find one for <$100 or so (I'm hoping they will put them on sale this holiday season - they just price dropped them a bit, so an "official" sale could happen for Xmas).
For most people, though, who are buying their first HDTV sometime between 2007-2009 or so, I think it'll be "$300 HDDVD player, $400 BD player, or $100 upconverting DVD player" and the upconverting player will win out because they won't know which of the other two is "best".
One thing that I think could swing this whole thing towards the HDDVD camp is if Walmart lands a $99 HDDVD player soon and they market it right. By right, I mean they market it as an upscaling DVD player with true HD playback on "select titles". Sell it to people who are buying new, lower priced HDTVs as a way to enjoy all their exisiting movies in the best quality on their new set, while giving them some "future proofing" by playing HDDVDs as well. Basically, they need to make a trojan horse. It can even be a crappy HDDVD (720p max even, that's what most people are going to be buying anyways) player as long as the upscaling is good. People will buy it as a transitionary player and end up with a few HDDVDs and figure that's the way to go when they upgrade in a year or two.
On the other hand, if Sony does a better job with the PS3 that could be enough to move BD into the winners chair someday. Lower priced systems, some must have games, good bundles, etc. Could swing the market enough to really matter... but until then, I think DVD is going to be here for a long, long time... and I'm OK with that.
progx
macrumors 6502a
Hm. Microsoft, Toshiba and Intel must have dished out some mega-bucks. With the Blu-ray discs outselling the HD-DVD, presently, why should this make a difference?
Anyhow, didn't Microsoft discontinue the HD-DVD add-on? Rumor has it they're making a Blu-ray one.
What was the main reason people bought VHS players? They weren't going to buy Snow White on video. This is stuff you'd never see in a normal theater.
It's a subject you don't like to talk about in public. In fact, you may have a stash of it on DVD, or on your external hard drive. I'm talking prongraphy!
The Adult Industry will be the make or break for the new formats. From what I've read, Vivid has chosen Blu-ray, with many others to follow.
Anyhow, didn't Microsoft discontinue the HD-DVD add-on? Rumor has it they're making a Blu-ray one.
What was the main reason people bought VHS players? They weren't going to buy Snow White on video. This is stuff you'd never see in a normal theater.
It's a subject you don't like to talk about in public. In fact, you may have a stash of it on DVD, or on your external hard drive. I'm talking prongraphy!
The Adult Industry will be the make or break for the new formats. From what I've read, Vivid has chosen Blu-ray, with many others to follow.
gauchogolfer
macrumors 603
I'm guessing the the rise of Internet porn puts traditional media out to pasture. There is this apocryphal tale of how porn decided the VHS/Betamax wars, which isn't entirely accurate. I don't think it will decide who wins in the next-gen hi-def format either.
LethalWolfe
macrumors G3
You can get porn on DVD, you can get porn on cable/pay-per-view, you can get porn on the internet. Watching porn in the privacy of your own home, as opposed to a public theater, is not in any way, shape, or form new anymore and won't have the impact in this format war that it had in VHS v BetaMax.
Lethal
GFLPraxis
macrumors 604
Blu-ray is outselling but HD-DVD is not so far behind that it couldn't catch up, and HD-DVD is winning in some regions.
Uh, no, actually very strong rumor is that they're about to give the HD-DVD add-on a price drop. HD-DVD addon for 360 is still selling strong, and there has been absolutely NO rumblings of Blu-ray addon from any real sources (just Blu-ray fans).
That was a load of pro-HD-DVD hype. While the porn industry tends to prefer HD-DVD most of them (including Vivid) publish on most formats. And these days the Internet will outdo both formats; they didn't have that in the VHS days.
0098386
Suspended
Not in the stonkingly huge continent of Europe.
LOL.
As it has already been said - we're not in the ages where you could only get pornography via VHS and magazines. It's everywhere, on every media in every format, codec, aspect ratio and region under the sun. And that industry seems to prefer HD-DVD.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070112-8602.html
progx
macrumors 6502a
Hm. Well, if each of these companies are pickering, or trying to decide for me, maybe I'll just get an Apple TV and download my movies when I get an high definition television.
I have doubles of movies from VHS on DVD. Not to mention, when the PS3 catches up, and it will, who's going to provide for them?
You can't bastardize one customer base for another.
WWE pushed away wrestling fans, now TNA Wrestling is gaining ground; now they've gone two hours, Thursday nights at 9 p.m., starting October 4th on Spike TV. Why? Because wrestling fans, and even non-wrestling fans, like the action in the ring and not the soap opera drama; including Mr. McMahon parading his rear on TV. (Shutters)
This format war is far from over. All the Japanese electronic companies, except Toshiba, are behind the Blu-ray. Including the top dogs of Samsung, Pioneer, Sharp, Mitsubishi and Hitachi are all backing Sony's new standard. They have the most influence in the electronics market since many of their parts power everyone's TVs. Check your Sony Plasma, it's a Samsung, maybe even your Toshiba set.
The Xbox 360 HD-DVD player is optional, which I doubt many 360 owners have. During the Blu-ray and HD-DVD player deal, 5 free movies when you buy a player, we sold out our Playstation 3s and we still have plenty of HD-DVD add-ons left. None of them were sold. This tells me, just a guess from consumer buying, that 360 users don't care about high definition video. Why should they? It wasn't built in, so why should they care? DVD is already playable, done deal. Playstation 3, many of my friends use the Blu-ray, but I'm sure others don't.
As someone said about the Zune, if Microsoft tightens up the DRM for content, it may appeal more to content providers than users. I still think Blu-ray may be the next format. Don't count Sony out, they are the giant in this game and they know what to do.
I have doubles of movies from VHS on DVD. Not to mention, when the PS3 catches up, and it will, who's going to provide for them?
You can't bastardize one customer base for another.
WWE pushed away wrestling fans, now TNA Wrestling is gaining ground; now they've gone two hours, Thursday nights at 9 p.m., starting October 4th on Spike TV. Why? Because wrestling fans, and even non-wrestling fans, like the action in the ring and not the soap opera drama; including Mr. McMahon parading his rear on TV. (Shutters)
This format war is far from over. All the Japanese electronic companies, except Toshiba, are behind the Blu-ray. Including the top dogs of Samsung, Pioneer, Sharp, Mitsubishi and Hitachi are all backing Sony's new standard. They have the most influence in the electronics market since many of their parts power everyone's TVs. Check your Sony Plasma, it's a Samsung, maybe even your Toshiba set.
The Xbox 360 HD-DVD player is optional, which I doubt many 360 owners have. During the Blu-ray and HD-DVD player deal, 5 free movies when you buy a player, we sold out our Playstation 3s and we still have plenty of HD-DVD add-ons left. None of them were sold. This tells me, just a guess from consumer buying, that 360 users don't care about high definition video. Why should they? It wasn't built in, so why should they care? DVD is already playable, done deal. Playstation 3, many of my friends use the Blu-ray, but I'm sure others don't.
As someone said about the Zune, if Microsoft tightens up the DRM for content, it may appeal more to content providers than users. I still think Blu-ray may be the next format. Don't count Sony out, they are the giant in this game and they know what to do.
GFLPraxis
macrumors 604
Hate to break it to you, but the AppleTV can't play anything better than DVD quality- 480p. iTunes is not HD.
Antares
macrumors 68000
Not yet. But I recon a future version will be....I'm sure iTunes will have HD content sometime in the near future.
Regardless, I would like to announce that I am now officially throwing my support behind Blu-ray.
mrgreen4242
macrumors 601
The AppleTV can PLAY HD material, there's just no good/legal way to get it. It's will do 720p at 5mbps, which is admittedly on the very bottom end of HD, but it's HD nonetheless.
http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html
GFLPraxis
macrumors 604
Ah really? So would it play 720p trailer's from Apple's site? (I've got a GreaseMonkey script that lets me download the streaming ones)
blu ray hasnt won it, but are in the driver seat. they are outselling hd-dvd in standalone players now (not counting ps3) and outsell hd-dvd on all dual releases.
i am really waiting for mac to drop an axe and include a blu ray drive in their next pro series. hell, i wouldnt mind an hd dvd drive either i guess, but gimme blu.
i am really waiting for mac to drop an axe and include a blu ray drive in their next pro series. hell, i wouldnt mind an hd dvd drive either i guess, but gimme blu.
Blu-ray rules
Paramount and Dreamworks could care less about what the best technology is. They are only concerned about what's cheaper - even, or perhaps especially, if it's inferior.
You can embed a lot more software on a Blu-ray disk than HD-DVD. I'm watching Blu-rays in 1080/24p with uncompressed PCI surround. The image and sound quality is better than what I see in a movie theater. I got my Blu-ray player for $350. That's what has Paramount and Dreamworks in knots.
HD-DVD is crap.
My video imaging device is the SONY VPH-G90U high definition crt front projector. I use a 109" diagonal Draper screen. Even when the image is blown up to that dimension the resolution, clarity, contrast and saturation is awesome.
For every HD-DVD whiner trying to protect their cheap investment there are scores of video experts on the AVS-Forum who swear by Blu-ray. So you can propagate whatever nonsense you want about the turf war between Blu-ray and HD-DVD. It's obvious to any high end user or engineer who's compared the two what the better format is.
This is not to say that the inferior technology can't prevail in the end. HD-DVD could be adopted the same way that VHS, the inferior tape standard was adopted. If that were to happen again it would clearly be to the detriment of the consumer.
Paramount and Dreamworks could care less about what the best technology is. They are only concerned about what's cheaper - even, or perhaps especially, if it's inferior.
You can embed a lot more software on a Blu-ray disk than HD-DVD. I'm watching Blu-rays in 1080/24p with uncompressed PCI surround. The image and sound quality is better than what I see in a movie theater. I got my Blu-ray player for $350. That's what has Paramount and Dreamworks in knots.
HD-DVD is crap.
My video imaging device is the SONY VPH-G90U high definition crt front projector. I use a 109" diagonal Draper screen. Even when the image is blown up to that dimension the resolution, clarity, contrast and saturation is awesome.
For every HD-DVD whiner trying to protect their cheap investment there are scores of video experts on the AVS-Forum who swear by Blu-ray. So you can propagate whatever nonsense you want about the turf war between Blu-ray and HD-DVD. It's obvious to any high end user or engineer who's compared the two what the better format is.
This is not to say that the inferior technology can't prevail in the end. HD-DVD could be adopted the same way that VHS, the inferior tape standard was adopted. If that were to happen again it would clearly be to the detriment of the consumer.
GFLPraxis
macrumors 604
There's one fatal flaw in your 'argument' here. Your statement is "I can watch 1080/24p video on a Blu-ray disk, thus HD-DVD sucks". You're totally missing the fact that virtually every HD-DVD disk ALSO has 1080/24p video on it.
There is absolutely NO difference in video quality between Blu-ray and HD-DVD. The fact that a single layer Blu-ray disk can hold ~30% more data doesn't really matter if both can hold over 4 hours of 1080p video easily.
It's obvious to the engineer reading the spec sheet which the better format is, sure. But there is no VISUAL difference, and both can easily fit far more content than any provider will ever sell on a single disk, so realistically, the consumer has absolutely no difference to care.
Don't be a tech specs snob. The fact that one disk has higher numbers in the data storage department does not make it some kind of terrible, crap format that no one should ever use if both formats use the same video formats and play at the same quality and both can easily fit full movies and are unlikely to have any problems with running out of space.
To anyone who lives and works internationally like me region locking is a big, big no no. Either I have to circumvent the locking (WiiKey, iphone hack, etc) or the product doesn't get bought. I'm not into pirating HD movies so Bluray lost for me and anyone else like me who spends as much time in Asia as in the US and isn't going to buy two copies of everything. In this day and age it's just stupid to have regions.
Paul
Paul
yetanotherdave
macrumors 68000
I don't have a hi def tv yet, so haven't looked too closely into players yet, especially as I'm willing to wait it out while the next gen format is decided, but from what I've seen, every time I walk into virgin or HMV, there are 2 columns of HD-DVD and about 10 of Blu-Ray. It sounds like the opposite is true in America though, but going off the range of titles available, it seems that blu-ray should win.
I don't really care either way though, it's like the rock and a hard place, microsoft DRM or Sony DRM, ooh, what a nice choice!
There are also scores of AV experts who re wire their homes electricity with gold cables to get a "cleaner sound" ignoring the fact that the cables between their house and the substation are not made of gold, who spend thousands on interconnects ignoring the basic physics of electrical signals and who then claim vinyl to be the best sounding format "because you can't lose any detail with analogue" ignoring the distortions introduced by vinyl. These people are not to be trusted as they clearly get off on claiming to see and hear differences where there just aren't any. I don't know whether it's e-dick waving or cognitive dissonance over the overpriced sound systems they own, but it's all bull.
(bold removed for the sake of my eyes)
I don't really care either way though, it's like the rock and a hard place, microsoft DRM or Sony DRM, ooh, what a nice choice!
There are also scores of AV experts who re wire their homes electricity with gold cables to get a "cleaner sound" ignoring the fact that the cables between their house and the substation are not made of gold, who spend thousands on interconnects ignoring the basic physics of electrical signals and who then claim vinyl to be the best sounding format "because you can't lose any detail with analogue" ignoring the distortions introduced by vinyl. These people are not to be trusted as they clearly get off on claiming to see and hear differences where there just aren't any. I don't know whether it's e-dick waving or cognitive dissonance over the overpriced sound systems they own, but it's all bull.
(bold removed for the sake of my eyes)