Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
That only makes sense if they were measuring based on a single square metre of product, which is obviously not the case

No one is measuring .02 kg of carbon. They are taking a massive measurement and then dividing it per square metre of product

Anyone who doesn’t understand that reveals a massive misunderstanding of stastistical analysis

Or more likely a bad faith attempt to make information they don’t like seem faulty
You, obviously don't know how Carbon dioxide is measured for these data. It is estimated not actually, analytically measured. Therefore NOT accurate to a single percentage.
 
You, obviously don't know how Carbon dioxide is measured for these data. It is estimated not actually, analytically measured. Therefore NOT accurate to a single percentage.
Wait til the vegetarians figure out they’re talking about plant food… 😄
 
  • Like
Reactions: Regulus67
You, obviously don't know how Carbon dioxide is measured for these data. It is estimated not actually, analytically measured. Therefore NOT accurate to a single percentage.

Estimated or measured the point remains the same
 
I can't believe people who despise those who eat beef, think it is ok to eat plants without the plant's consent. Last I checked they are living organisms. Seems hypocritical to denounce eating cows, but celebrate eating plants.
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: VulchR and Razorpit
I can't believe people who despise those who eat beef, think it is ok to eat plants without the plant's consent. Last I checked they are living organisms. Seems hypocritical to denounce eating cows, but celebrate eating plants.

Firstly, I, at least, don’t despise people who eat beef. I simply don’t think it’s the right thing to do

Secondly, plants are not conscious beings like you or I or a cow. There is likely nothing it feels like to be a plant, no consciousness to ask consent from
 
Are you trying to say that if we didn’t create dangerous levels of co2 emissions there wouldn’t be enough for plants to grow?
Razorpit is correct. In a professional greenhouse, you add CO2, to between 800ppm to 1200ppm. (0.8-1.2%)
Higher temperature helps plants to cope, if the CO2 level is low. I know, living in Scandinavia.
I'm happy we don't suffer such low temperatures as during the maunder minimum, from 1645-1715 and later.

When I was a kid, the scientists worried we would enter a new ice age.
Scientists need governmental grants. So they can loose their funding if they do not support the agenda.
Just like all the doctors who lost their licences during the past 3 years.

ages.jpeg
 
  • Love
Reactions: Razorpit
Are you trying to say that if we didn’t create dangerous levels of co2 emissions there wouldn’t be enough for plants to grow?
Correct. We are actually at dangerously low levels of plant food. Look it up. There have been periods of significantly higher levels in the earth’s history, long before “the evils of capitalism“ had their opportunity to dig their tentacles in to society.

I can’t take anyone serious that says the earth‘s average temperature is XX.XXXº, without ever mentioning simple variables such as the warming effects of water vapor, underwater volcanic activity, the earth’s wobble as it rotates at 1,038 miles per hour, on a 66,660 miles per hour orbit around an unregulated nuclear furnace.

Any one who says man is responsible for a .Xº “average temperature” change is not being intellectually honest. The earth’s average temperature is about as relevant as the average price of a car.

Now if we want to talk about honest man-made pollution in the air and water, then I’m on board. CO2 is not pollution.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Regulus67
The cases feel like trash, so I imagine the bands do as well.

I'll be returning my case and I bet a lot of people will when they receive it as well as the bands and see what $60+ got them.

Ironically these terrible cases/bands are going to do more harm to the environment with all the roundtrip shipping
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: iOS Geek
Cattle will be farmed and slaughtered whether the hide is used or not.
So, 17kg/Sq meter vs 15.8 (16 is within margin of error) or a 6% difference. Probably/in margin of error.

Fun fact from your own source carbon footprint:
Artificial leather 15.8 kg/Sq Metre, as you said. But
Textile 20.6 kg/Sq meter!
Remind me what those new "Fine Woven" cases are made from.
Yes cattle will be farmed and slaughtered regardless, but if tanning the hide requires even more emissions than producing other materials from scratch, then it’s hardly worth it. There’s also the issue of the huge amounts of chemicals in the toxic waste water that tanneries have to produce, creating downstream effects on agriculture and drinking water.

Fine woven is made from micro-twill, which is mostly made from nylon and polyester. A large percentage of that is apparently from recycled materials. Obviously it’s not completely clean since the non-recycled portion requires refining petroleum, but that also falls under the same argument as “cattle will be slaughtered regardless” since gasoline will need to be produced regardless.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: nathansz
Yes cattle will be farmed and slaughtered regardless, but if tanning the hide requires even more emissions than producing other materials from scratch, then it’s hardly worth it. There’s also the issue of the huge amounts of chemicals in the toxic waste water that tanneries have to produce, creating downstream effects on agriculture and drinking water.

Fine woven is made from micro-twill, which is mostly made from nylon and polyester. A large percentage of that is apparently from recycled materials. Obviously it’s not completely clean since the non-recycled portion requires refining petroleum, but that also falls under the same argument as “cattle will be slaughtered regardless” since gasoline will need to be produced regardless.
"apparently" There you go again.
That particular word is defined as "How to lie with statistics"
FWIW the same reference that Antifa posited gives the carbon cost of producing fabric as HIGHER that that of producing leather.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
No I don’t mean that estimated vs measured are the same.

I mean that the point i was making remains either way.
But, you have no idea how Carbon Dioxide is measured. They fill FLASKS with air at a location and measure the Carbon Dioxide with a spectrometer that has an error of +/- 3%. Then the AVERGE the results and ESTIMATE the amount of Carbon Dioxide. The difference between 15.8 and 16 is within the margin error.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: Regulus67
But, you have no idea how Carbon Dioxide is measured. They fill FLASKS with air at a location and measure the Carbon Dioxide with a spectrometer that has an error of +/- 3%. Then the AVERGE the results and ESTIMATE the amount of Carbon Dioxide. The difference between 15.8 and 16 is within the margin error.

The accuracy of a 10,000 ppm NDIR sensor is around 50 ppm (0.005%)
 
Considering how awful the FW cases are at 60 dollars, can you imagine the absolute waste of money a FW band is at I believe 99 bucks?
 
FWIW the same reference that Antifa posited gives the carbon cost of producing fabric as HIGHER that that of producing leather.

I didn’t post the reference, but it did show that leather has a higher carbon cost
 

Why don’t you take a look at those names

Almost none of them are climate scientists and the few ones that are are paid consultants for resource extraction companies of one kind or another

Also, the “Climate Intelligence Foundation” is closely tied to the far-right Dutch fascist party Forum voor Democratie.

It is also almost entirely funded by the oil and gas industry (and one real estate developer.)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: szw-mapple fan
Firstly, I, at least, don’t despise people who eat beef. I simply don’t think it’s the right thing to do

Secondly, plants are not conscious beings like you or I or a cow. There is likely nothing it feels like to be a plant, no consciousness to ask consent from
Not sure how you define consciousness, but plants do process information. Indeed they can share that information with other plants. The problem with saying that some organisms are conscious and others are not is how you draw the line. You draw it between animals and plants, others draw it between people and animals. Probably both boundaries have an element of truth.
 
Not sure how you define consciousness, but plants do process information. Indeed they can share that information with other plants. The problem with saying that some organisms are conscious and others are not is how you draw the line. You draw it between animals and plants, others draw it between people and animals. Probably both boundaries have an element of truth.


Information processing and sharing is not consciousness

Consciousness is what it feels like to be something. It feels like something to be a human, or a cow, or a lobster, or an ant

It most likely does not feel like anything to be a plant.

I doubt anyone familiar with modern thinking on the subject would draw that line between humans and other animals

The Feeling of Life Itself by Christof Koch and I of the Vortex by Rodolfo Llinás are great introductions on the subject

edit: it occurred to me i left out an easy to understand part of the explanation.

Plants don’t have neurons. Nor do bacteria, or computers, or viruses, or fungi, or whatever else.

It is neurons that are the “feeling” part of matter.

That’s where the line is drawn. To answer your question
 
Last edited:
The accuracy of a 10,000 ppm NDIR sensor is around 50 ppm (0.005%)
I think you will find that 10,000 ppm Carbon Dioxide is a bit high for you to tolerate, but be my guest.
When measuring 417 ppm, your 250ppm (your data) the accuracy would be 11%, not good enough.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: ProfessionalFan
Information processing and sharing is not consciousness

Consciousness is what it feels like to be something. It feels like something to be a human, or a cow, or a lobster, or an ant

It most likely does not feel like anything to be a plant.

I doubt anyone familiar with modern thinking on the subject would draw that line between humans and other animals

The Feeling of Life Itself by Christof Koch and I of the Vortex by Rodolfo Llinás are great introductions on the subject

edit: it occurred to me i left out an easy to understand part of the explanation.

Plants don’t have neurons. Nor do bacteria, or computers, or viruses, or fungi, or whatever else.

It is neurons that are the “feeling” part of matter.

That’s where the line is drawn. To answer your question
Neurons send signals using action potentials. An action potential is a shift in the neuron's potential electric energy caused by the flow of charged particles.
Which describes how a computer works.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.