Hewlett Packard Not Convinced of the Value of Thunderbolt

[inket]

And USB was lame compared to FW. The faster/better technology does not always win. Taking a wait and see approach is not a cause to call for the doom of one of the biggest industry player there is, that has much more going for it than just "desktops/laptops". That just shows how disconnected and little one knows about HP.

Taking a wait and see approach is really dumb. They're going to slow TB adoption because they're so paranoid about profits and don't give a damn about their users.

TB is going to take off in the next 1-2 years and give the finger to HP users who bought their incapable PCs in 2011.

Something that no one should forget: Computers are bought to be used in the present and the future, not the present alone.

While it's not a cause of doom, it'll definitely hurt HP computer sales in the long run.

 

[bdkennedy1]

Ahhh, HP. The Microsoft Windows of computer hardware.

 

[addicted44]

Can't Thunderbolt run pretty much any protocol?

It can. However, they are not supporting USB because the USB consortium made a big fuss about it.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

For what possible reason would you want to go with the slower standard? Not for performance sake.

Cheaper? Possibly.
Stick it to Apple? Maybe.
Planned obsolescence? Probably.

Yes, less expensive and also doesn't really fit in w/ the bulk of HP's customer base if you think about who they are -- corporate, small biz, and entry level consumer. All three of these demos want a cheap box over bleeding edge technology.

As for sticking it to Apple, that is ridiculous. HP's not adopting doesn't affect Apple. Pro users want TBs speed. That is what will drive peripheral development. Eventually that will flow down to the consumer level. HP may still yet adopt TB, just not now.

And planned obsolescence? While that is the M.O. of the electronics industry, USB 3 and TB are standards with legs, ones that can last a decade. Buy every standard usually falls to a faster/better one. That is what progress is about.

 

[SilianRail]

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And USB was lame compared to FW. The faster/better technology does not always win. Taking a wait and see approach is not a cause to call for the doom of one of the biggest industry player there is, that has much more going for it than just "desktops/laptops". That just shows how disconnected and little one knows about HP.

Taking a wait and see approach is really dumb. They're going to slow TB adoption because they're so paranoid about profits and don't give a damn about their users.

TB is going to take off in the next 1-2 years and give the finger to HP users who bought their incapable PCs in 2011.

Something that no one should forget: Computers are bought to be used in the present and the future, not the present alone.

While it's not a cause of doom, it'll definitely hurt HP computer sales in the long run.

HP users aren't sophisticated enough to need TB. Video editing and backing up things on a RAID drive? Please. Transferring photos is the height of their I/O needs and USB is plenty for that.

 

[addicted44]

Couldn't agree more!!! Maybe if Apple "skates to where the puck is going to be" they can get up to 6% of the world market!!!!

Those idiots who make "typical PC decisions" will have to be happy with their crappy 90% market share!!! (And as Mac users, we get to buy elegant and sexy proprietary dongles and adapters at $30-$50 a crack)

I think Apple is pretty happy with its over 50% profit share.

 

[Man9z0r]

Taking a wait and see approach is really dumb. They're going to slow TB adoption because they're so paranoid about profits and don't give a damn about their users.

TB is going to take off in the next 1-2 years and give the finger to HP users who bought their incapable PCs in 2011.

Something that no one should forget: Computers are bought to be used in the present and the future, not the present alone.

While it's not a cause of doom, it'll definitely hurt HP computer sales in the long run.

I don't know about using HP's in the future. You can get them for like 300 bucks. By the time the future is here the person who bought an hp will be okay with buying another one.

 

[NebulaClash]

Those idiots who make "typical PC decisions" will have to be happy with their crappy 90% market share!!!

As I said, no imagination. If you cater to focus groups, you give the 90% what they want instead of what they don't even realize they need yet. Apple will lead the way and eventually the other PC guys will follow. As usual.

I like using Apple's stuff. I get to live in the future, not the past.

 

[addicted44]

And USB was lame compared to FW. The faster/better technology does not always win. Taking a wait and see approach is not a cause to call for the doom of one of the biggest industry player there is, that has much more going for it than just "desktops/laptops". That just shows how disconnected and little one knows about HP.

And Apple wasn't the powerhouse it is today.

Wait till the iPods/iPads/iPhones become Thunderbolt only and you need to use a dongle to plug it into your USB only HP. Thunderbolt will instantly crush marketshare.

Also, Firewire wasn't being pushed by Intel either.

While Thunderbolt can still easily fail, there is little to no comparison to Firewire.

 

[MrWinters]

I think Apple is pretty happy with its over 50% profit share.

I'm sure they are. How exactly does "Apple's Profits" benefit me or any consumer/user????

 

[MrWinters]

As I said, no imagination. If you cater to focus groups, you give the 90% what they want instead of what they don't even realize they need yet. Apple will lead the way and eventually the other PC guys will follow. As usual.

I like using Apple's stuff. I get to live in the future, not the past.

Yeah, the future is great! As an iPad user I get to buy a $50 HDMI adapter to plug into my iPad's propitiatory 30 pin port!!!

 

[toddybody]

TB is fantastic, but those gains are pretty much unattainable for most consumers. Until SSD prices go down, TB wont be living to it's full potential...

Though I think HP systems are mediocre at best, I dont see how they are shooting themselves in the foot over this decision. IMHO USB 3.0 is going to be the market leader, despite lower speeds/advantages.

 

[gnasher729]

I don't know why apple had to call it something different than the name that intel gave it. I would prefer light peak over thunder-bolt.

The same technology is designed to work with copper cables (called Thunderbolt by Intel) and using fibre optics (called Lightpeak by Intel). Apple uses copper cables, which is the technology that actually works today, and uses the name that Intel gave it.

 

[logandzwon]

-Thunderbolt compete for directly with PCI/ExpressPort then USB.

-HP might not see the value in putting NEW ports, but then again they sell low end sub-$500 machines that have useful lifes of only a year or two. I still have an original 5 year old intel Duo Core iMac doing duty as my kids's desktop and runs everything well. It even plays starcraft 2 online. At an office I set up there are 2 year old HPs that are pretty much worthless and ready for the donation bin.

 

[Digital Skunk]

HP doesn't make much money off of each machine they sell, so adding in an expensive port that NO ONE will be able to use now, or by the time their machine is obsolete doesn't make sense.

I know first hand that a majority of users buying MBPs and iMacs have never used or care to use their FW800 port . . . . a port that never really caught on in the PC world, and one that is just shy of a decade old. Yes, every HDD maker implements it, but not every mom and pop joe/jane user is picking one up.

I doubt the masses will flock to TBolt and I doubt there will be tons of consumer peripherals (printers, card readers, and such) that will carry TBolt for data I/O.

At the end of the day HP knows that the only machines that will need to carry TBolt will be their smoking hot workstations and maybe the Dell M6600 which (albeit heavy as hell) is a real desktop replacement. Their consumer hardware needs to be nothing but USB3.0 which has plenty of periphs and plenty of support even in the high bandwidth industries like 2k and 4k filmmaking.

As of now, we only have about 3 products announced with TBolt. Two of them are HDD arrays that will run $1799 and up guaranteed, the other is a portable dual HDD enclosure that will still only serve a market that is already flocking to Apple.

HP's decision makes sense. It's a decision that won't hurt TBolt anyway.

 

[MattInOz]

And USB was lame compared to FW. The faster/better technology does not always win. Taking a wait and see approach is not a cause to call for the doom of one of the biggest industry player there is, that has much more going for it than just "desktops/laptops". That just shows how disconnected and little one knows about HP.

Ummm... They both had wins but on different track. FireWire won anywhere data was time sensitive and higher demand. I think these are the markets looking with glee at thunderbolt and they have cash to splash.

USB was cheap to implement so won out on the mass market devices that didn't have the value to drive a higher bandwidth standard. Not just FireWire but Ethernet as well.

USB 3 I don't understand what's going to pay for it other than hard drives but even network drives are in the same ball park.

 

[logandzwon]

Yeah, the future is great! As an iPad user I get to buy a $50 HDMI adapter to plug into my iPad's propitiatory 30 pin port!!!

I have two. A wired one for $39 from the Apple Store, and a wireless one for $79 from the Apple refurb store. Where did you find a $50 version>

 

[ericinboston]

Although I dislike HP hardware...they (really the entire Wintel industry) have a point: If there's not much point/value/improvement for TB over USB 3.0 for the 90% of consumers out there, what's the point in investing in TB?

I agree.

USB 3.0 is blazing fast and it's the evolutionary...not revolutionary...it's backwards compatible...it's familiar...the whole 9 yards.

This is going to be another USB vs. Firewire story...where they both exist but 1% of the world actually uses FW (even if it's on 8% of the machines) while everyone else uses USB.

There will always be exceptions and certain folks may really need TB, but for the very very very high majority of consumers, USB 3.0 just makes so much more sense. As well as for the manufacturers.

I have to add that it doesn't help TB's cause that Apple is the one leading the adoption on TB...everyone knows Apple is proprietary (gotta love all their iOS chargers/cables).

 

[Micah McDowell]

I only read half the previous posts in this thread, but I caught the general mood. As a video professional, I must say...

WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE???

Thunderbolt is exactly what I've been wanting. It's a tiny port that goes a long way toward eliminating obsolescence. I'll be able to edit HD video at full performance anywhere on a laptop with a RAID array without dragging a Mac Pro around. It has the potential to hook almost anything to anything.

Yet, you people say it's "too fast", asking what's the need? Seriously??? I suppose when half the posters say that USB2 was better than Firewire, they're probably not gonna get it no matter what they hear. If I see another post on any forum or blog saying Thunderbolt is pointless, I just may scream.

 

[layte]

HP users aren't sophisticated enough to need TB. Video editing and backing up things on a RAID drive? Please. Transferring photos is the height of their I/O needs and USB is plenty for that.

Heh, you nailed the smug, clueless Apple user cliché there. TB would bottleneck my HP (HP users can describe anything from £300 craptop owners to multi-million £ big iron UNIX admins) servers SAN bandwidth (32Gb/s per enclosure). Seems OK for the prosumer crowd though.

 

[MrWinters]

I have two. A wired one for $39 from the Apple Store, and a wireless one for $79 from the Apple refurb store. Where did you find a $50 version>

Here's the one I bought..

http://www.buy.com/prod/hdmi-adapte...4g/q/sellerid/26076229/loc/101/220218570.html

 

[AidenShaw]

Intel haven't produced the kit. Don't blame Intel instead take all your USB3 loving friends to Intel and complain.

If you buy an Intel-labeled Sandy Bridge motherboard ATX, it will have USB 3.0. Intel puts a tiny USB 3.0 chip on the motherboard.

Perhaps you don't realize the irony, since Intel doesn't support TBolt in the chipset either. It's a large additional chip (and often heatsink).

How is that Microsoft's job ? They provide a Windows DDK, it's up to the vendors to provide drivers.

Note that supporting TBolt means supporting hot addition/removal of PCIexpress slots, and hot addition/removal of PCIe "cards" in those dynamic PCIe slots.

This is in addition to the normal driver (e.g. SATA) for the controller in the TBolt peripheral.

Windows supports hot add already (actually ExpressCard devices are hot add PCIe devices).

Depending on how TBolt is implemented, it may not be necessary for the TBolt peripheral to have a special driver. For example, if you use a SiI3132 SATA controller in your TBolt disk drive, the standard SiI3132 driver might work without changes.

 

[faroZ06]

I haven't seen any devices that use USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt yet.

And I hate USB's inability to be used for video editing and its use of computer resources. Thunderbolt seems better for now...

 

[dgree03]

Oh the Irony...

I find it funny that the resident Apple Fan boys are touting the benefits of the NEW hardly adopted connection, saying people need this and this is the future.

Those same people hammer google/microsoft/verizon/samsung/dell/hp for things they do that "doesnt really matter, or has no use"

NFC?
LTE?
Bluray?
Voice Recognition?

and so on...

 

[OllyW]

Wait till the iPods/iPads/iPhones become Thunderbolt only and you need to use a dongle to plug it into your USB only HP. Thunderbolt will instantly crush marketshare.

Back to the chicken and egg again.

Apple won't be able to move iDevices to Thunderbolt for years. Don't forget nearly all the Macs out there haven't got Thunderbolt.

Make iPods/iPads/iPhones become Thunderbolt only and watch their sales plummet.