I was just responding in ENGLISH instead of tech talk. My point remains The current revision of thunderbolt will support optical thunderbolt.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Hewlett Packard Not Convinced of the Value of Thunderbolt
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I was just responding in ENGLISH instead of tech talk. My point remains The current revision of thunderbolt will support optical thunderbolt.
...
as of right now thunderbolt is useless. Especially for HP since noone is going to use a cinema display on an HP desktop. Even when peripherals come out to support the speed USB 3.0 will do the same job for the average user since no external drive or flash memory stick is going to be using the whole speed of the USB 3 bus anyway. This is shaping up to be a bluray vs HD-DVD battle all over again.
as of right now thunderbolt is useless. Especially for HP since noone is going to use a cinema display on an HP desktop. Even when peripherals come out to support the speed USB 3.0 will do the same job for the average user since no external drive or flash memory stick is going to be using the whole speed of the USB 3 bus anyway. This is shaping up to be a bluray vs HD-DVD battle all over again.
Quote of the year right here.
One Port to rule them all,
One Port to connect them,
One Port to bring them all
and under Apple bind them
Only in a round-about way that includes the optical transceivers into the cable, making the cable costs go up in some indecent fashion.
150$ cable anyone ?
Not to mention, what do you gain from optics that way ? You're still using the same electrical port at the source, so you're still limited to the bandwidth the electrical port provides... Plus you've just added lag in the form of an electric to optical conversion, after encoding your signal to an electrical signal... uh, why ?
The Cinema Display is still going to be using Display Port anyhow, not Thunderbolt per say. It's not because Apple/Intel pass the displayport signal over Thunderbolt that suddenly it's any different.
Not to mention you don't want a Display Port/Thunderbolt mixed port. That's just awful. Display Port 1.2 brings higher bandwidth possibilities than Thunderbolt to the realm of GPUs/Displays, you're only slowing it down by matting Thunderbolt to it (10 Gbps per channel versus 21 Gbps for DP 1.2).
Cite your sources, it is fairly common knowledge that the current revision of thunderbolt will work with the optical revision.
No computer is future proof, I think the only reason people hang onto Macs for longer is in my experience they last longer. Apple keep on the cutting edge which is my reason for why they have put thunderbolt ports on their machines.
Completely different, HD-DVD and Blu ray is similar, Thunderbolt is light years ahead of USB3 and has greater support from the industry just you wait! I am looking forward to the day when we look back on this futile argument and laugh at how silly we were.
Last edited by a moderator:
Agreed with Thunderhawks.
For professional usages
- game production [my industry],
- video post production,
- backup of large amounts of data daily
- daisy chaining for multiple devices [handy for screens]
thunderbolt will be greatly appreciated. It's hard to ignore the main trend of computers in the last 20 years - things getting faster.
Thunderbolt is planned to support up to 100gb/s by 2020.
It's an Intel technology and has backing by major companies (mentioned previously in thread).
People are impatient and want things faster and faster. I think Thunderbolt will be around for a long time. Peripherals coming soon.
For professional usages
- game production [my industry],
- video post production,
- backup of large amounts of data daily
- daisy chaining for multiple devices [handy for screens]
thunderbolt will be greatly appreciated. It's hard to ignore the main trend of computers in the last 20 years - things getting faster.
Thunderbolt is planned to support up to 100gb/s by 2020.
It's an Intel technology and has backing by major companies (mentioned previously in thread).
People are impatient and want things faster and faster. I think Thunderbolt will be around for a long time. Peripherals coming soon.
Once I started on the FireWire path, I couldn't adopt to USB. USB is quick and fecklessly compatible, but it lacks power. I cannot plug a single audio/video device into the USB that will self-power. I need extra AC/DC adapters to hit the mains, eliminating the cool USB factor. FW has for that reason, been the defacto go to in my audio video world.
If I was just a Time Machine user, I wouldn't care: I can shower while it backs up. But, I don't need to carry more than one mains adapter with my. My MacBook Pro mains adapter is as heavy/big as I need. TB seems to replace a lot of the power that is lost with USB over the bus so that peripherals can run from the computer, not from the mains.
If I was just a Time Machine user, I wouldn't care: I can shower while it backs up. But, I don't need to carry more than one mains adapter with my. My MacBook Pro mains adapter is as heavy/big as I need. TB seems to replace a lot of the power that is lost with USB over the bus so that peripherals can run from the computer, not from the mains.
That's a DisplayPort 1.2 feature, not a Thunderbolt feature, for screens.
Last edited by a moderator:
Hopefully by the time peripherals begin to be made HP will come around. It would really help the technology along if the largest PC manufacturer in the world embraced this next generation protocol.
Intel and Apple are pushing their standard: Intel wants it
more than they want their prior USB 3 standard.
You better believe HP will be changing it's tune. HP doesn't make CPUs and use Intel and AMD Boards.
USB was nothing until Intel pushed it. Firewire was the challenger.
Intel is pushing their joint Lightpeak [Apple/Intel] and it will replace USB.
more than they want their prior USB 3 standard.
You better believe HP will be changing it's tune. HP doesn't make CPUs and use Intel and AMD Boards.
USB was nothing until Intel pushed it. Firewire was the challenger.
Intel is pushing their joint Lightpeak [Apple/Intel] and it will replace USB.
Not everything Intel pushes actually succeeds though. HP has been burned with the whole ia64 debacle.
Not everything that Intel push wins out. Look at the Itanium for example (co-developed with HP amusingly enough). The market decided that the entrenched and cheaper x86(64) was going to continue to be their choice, with Itanium stuck with a few niche products and roles.
Define "quite well". HP is the only vendor shipping it as of right now, and only in their higher-end (the BL800 series blades and the Integrity line-up that's mostly HP-UX based) as a replacement for their PA-RISC (HP9000) line-up.
No, Itanium tanked. Oracle just announced they were dropping support for it, dealing it a major blow. At this point, even HP is going to have to move away from it.
Intel does not bat 1000, nor does Apple, nor does any vendor. Nothing is a sure thing in the tech world.
Your understanding is not correct. x86-64 is (and has always) eaten it for lunch.
I don't mean Currently, i was pretty sure (probably someone providing misinformation) that at one point Itanium did ok/well.
Soon, most things will be wireless anyway. The only thing we'll have to worry about is power. But soon we'll have 12V power everywhere in our houses right next to mains power sockets, so we won't have to worry chunky power adapters. Or maybe Wi-Tricity.
Well, at least I wish the future was like that.
Until then, we'll have 20 different "standards" each more expensive than the other, with bulky cables and adapters, that only work with certain things, that only provide limited power, etc...
FireWire 800 never worked, 400 was the only one that made it into video cameras and pro equipment. When Apple dropped FW400 in favor of 800, my biggest problem was acquiring a cable that has FW400 on one end and FW800 on the other. Trust me, no one has ever heard of that. I could only get it on eBay, not in the real world.
USB was great, but USB 3 cables cannot be plugged into USB 2 sockets, so I don't care what they say about "backward compatibility", it needs an adapter or a special cable, so it's not backward compatible.
MiniDisplayPort never caught on, I got a MacBook Pro with it in 2008 and every projector and screen and TV I have come across uses sVGA or the better ones use HDMI. sVGA is still the standard, and I'm jealous of the people in my class with a cheap netbook who have a VGA port and can instantly use the university's projectors without any adapters.
Ethernet is one giant plug and socket, and only runs a few cables. It's also crap.
Audio jacks are the only ones that have never changed, they're elegant, do not have a "wrong way" of plugging them in, and will always work. Why can't every plug just be a jack? Apple proved with the iPod Shuffle that a 4-wire jack can handle USB easily.
That's about it, I've listed all the connectors on my Mac + all the new stuff that everyone's talking about.
Conclusion: USB 2 is still everywhere and will be for a long time. Most people don't need faster transfers, as the bottleneck in speed is more often the device rather than the cable. Also, most people don't care about daisy chaining at all.
Well, at least I wish the future was like that.
Until then, we'll have 20 different "standards" each more expensive than the other, with bulky cables and adapters, that only work with certain things, that only provide limited power, etc...
FireWire 800 never worked, 400 was the only one that made it into video cameras and pro equipment. When Apple dropped FW400 in favor of 800, my biggest problem was acquiring a cable that has FW400 on one end and FW800 on the other. Trust me, no one has ever heard of that. I could only get it on eBay, not in the real world.
USB was great, but USB 3 cables cannot be plugged into USB 2 sockets, so I don't care what they say about "backward compatibility", it needs an adapter or a special cable, so it's not backward compatible.
MiniDisplayPort never caught on, I got a MacBook Pro with it in 2008 and every projector and screen and TV I have come across uses sVGA or the better ones use HDMI. sVGA is still the standard, and I'm jealous of the people in my class with a cheap netbook who have a VGA port and can instantly use the university's projectors without any adapters.
Ethernet is one giant plug and socket, and only runs a few cables. It's also crap.
Audio jacks are the only ones that have never changed, they're elegant, do not have a "wrong way" of plugging them in, and will always work. Why can't every plug just be a jack? Apple proved with the iPod Shuffle that a 4-wire jack can handle USB easily.
That's about it, I've listed all the connectors on my Mac + all the new stuff that everyone's talking about.
Conclusion: USB 2 is still everywhere and will be for a long time. Most people don't need faster transfers, as the bottleneck in speed is more often the device rather than the cable. Also, most people don't care about daisy chaining at all.
I don't see what point that was. And frankly, as an architecture, if you only did quite well for a few short years, you never did quite well at all.
Itanium never managed to meet its predicted growth, never gained solid foot hold and is now being dropped industry wide, leaving the vendors high and dry.
And then people wonder why HP is cautious in adopting Intel stuff...
The Broadcast Energy Transmitter, we must take it from the Joes, Cobra!
Who knew Hasbro was so forward thinking...
"Better" in what way? Thunderbolt is faster. No Mac has USB 3.0 natively yet. I fail to see how even for the "general public," USB 3.0 is "better."
Ok, ok.
Wasn't trying to argue, i don't really care/know much about itanium apart from what someone told me at some point in time. Obviously you know what you are talking about, Google confirms
Now back on topic.
i think this is a little different Sony and Dell are backing lightpeak/thunderbolt last i heard.
Apple's track record here may not be perfect (mini Display port / Firewire), but they have been a trend setter in the past (USB).
That said, HP just announced that they'll miss their 3Q sales target (link), and Apple keeps smashing earnings quarter after quarter after quarter. They're clearly doing something right, and HP / Dell / Lenovo / Toshiba may want to take notice...
That said, HP just announced that they'll miss their 3Q sales target (link), and Apple keeps smashing earnings quarter after quarter after quarter. They're clearly doing something right, and HP / Dell / Lenovo / Toshiba may want to take notice...
!
Look at it from another angle: I work in IT in a large real estate conglomerate.
I see hundreds of brand new PCs bought every year, year after year by these people and then they bring it to my group to be set-up on our network.
95% of the individuals who buy HP laptops in that environment never use their USB ports for much beyond connecting a mouse or printer at most - they don't even see why you would want a jump drive or high speed peripherals. Though a thunderbolt port would be nice for you or I, the point is totally lost on
these people who still have problems mousing effectively.
This is the type of consumer who buys an HP and rarely are they doing anything processor heavy or the like. Outlook, Word, Excel, Publisher are the "big four" plus one proprietary app.
So this is why we have users still purchasing a Core2duo based PC several years after that processor lost its lustre for anyone with a hunger for a more capable machine.
As an aside, I constantly have to entertain the question "when will we be supporting Macs on our network" for the last 3-4 years. There's no barrier to it but the company had to develop some kind of internal policy first apparently.
Look at it from another angle: I work in IT in a large real estate conglomerate.
I see hundreds of brand new PCs bought every year, year after year by these people and then they bring it to my group to be set-up on our network.
95% of the individuals who buy HP laptops in that environment never use their USB ports for much beyond connecting a mouse or printer at most - they don't even see why you would want a jump drive or high speed peripherals. Though a thunderbolt port would be nice for you or I, the point is totally lost on
these people who still have problems mousing effectively.
This is the type of consumer who buys an HP and rarely are they doing anything processor heavy or the like. Outlook, Word, Excel, Publisher are the "big four" plus one proprietary app.
So this is why we have users still purchasing a Core2duo based PC several years after that processor lost its lustre for anyone with a hunger for a more capable machine.
As an aside, I constantly have to entertain the question "when will we be supporting Macs on our network" for the last 3-4 years. There's no barrier to it but the company had to develop some kind of internal policy first apparently.