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Hey Apple...Adobe has learned its lesson! We want Flash

QuarterSwede said:
flexengineer, you're still at this after 3 days!? I'll give you one thing, that's some serious commitment.
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What do you expect from someone who dedicates his blog to fanboy rants about how Apple and Steve Jobs are the devil.

"I am a senior technical architect and software engineer specialized in Adobe Flash Platform. I provide consulting and engineering services to companies ranging from game changing startups to Fortune 100."

It looks like SOMEONE might be threatened that his meal ticket is in jeopardy. Flash is going the way of the Wooly Mammoth. Deal with it.
 
applebook said:
What do you expect from someone who dedicates his blog to fanboy rants about how Apple and Steve Jobs are the devil.

"I am a senior technical architect and software engineer specialized in Adobe Flash Platform. I provide consulting and engineering services to companies ranging from game changing startups to Fortune 100."

It looks like SOMEONE might be threatened that his meal ticket is in jeopardy. Flash is going the way of the Wooly Mammoth. Deal with it.
Click to expand...

OMG if only you knew!!! Have you looked at my resume? I just hired 2 developers to deal with work load. I am not affected by that war, I just can't swallow ********s.

It is interesting that now you all go on personal attacks, if you compare that with the first half of this thread you will understand why I spent all that time!
 
You don't have to wait long, just a bit more struggle and flash is over, millions of webpages are changing their sites and more are joining thanks apple, if apple would bring flash for ios now, it would be a disaster, we would have to live with flash years more, just wait and enjoy how the internet turns to an flash free world, some maybe stay with flash longer but we'll have better alternatives for them.
 
nexsta said:
You don't have to wait long, just a bit more struggle and flash is over, millions of webpages are changing their sites and more are joining thanks apple, if apple would bring flash for ios now, it would be a disaster, we would have to live with flash years more, just wait and enjoy how the internet turns to an flash free world, some maybe stay with flash longer but we'll have better alternatives for them.
Click to expand...

If they are changing it means they should not have been Flash in the first place. Those who do, like Youtube, only added HTML5 to accommodate Steve Jobs.

Lie #2: HTML5 Beats Adobe Flash.

HTML5 is an embryo markup language (also called a ‘draft’) that is being compared with a fully mature, full feature object oriented programming language called ActionScript, used to build enterprise class Flash apps.

Thinking that HTML5 with javascript (another developer’s nightmare itself) can do everything a serious programming language does is delusional, it would be like saying I can drive to the moon with my car, it does not matter how good the car is or how motivated I am, it’s just not going to happen.

Never will HTML5 get even close to Flash and the reasons are:

* HTML5 is a draft created in 2008 that is not expected to become a ‘Candidate Recommendation’ before 2012 and is not expected to become an actual W3C ‘Recommendation’ before 2022 or later (Source: Wikipedia).
* HTML5 is a specification that requires years of efforts before new features and improvments can be fully deployed.
* HTML5 is not a programming language nor does it permit the protection and / or monetization of digital content without depending on another proprietary system such as iOS or Playstation.
* HTML5 is not 100% consistent accross browser therefore it can be visually rendered differently by Safari, Internet Explorer, Chrome, Firefox or Opera on Windows or Mac or any combination of those. Some website might have parts or features that work on some browsers and not others, or render differently in each with additional discrepency depending on the operating system used (PC, Mac, Linux).

Meanwhile, Flash works the same everywhere and Adobe has recently proven its ability to roll-out breakthrough and new features in a matter of months if not weeks.

For instance, even though Apple refused to provide Adobe with a pre-release of the new MacBook Air in order to optimize Flash for it (screwing its own customers instead by removing the player), Adobe still cut the grass under Jobs feet by delivering a 10 fold performance improvment for Flash Player on all browsers, platforms and operating systems including the underpowered Apple MacBook AIR just weeks after its public release.

Flash Player 10.2 was demonstrated at Adobe’s world conference “MAX” earlier this year (see video below), is now available for testing at http://labs.adobe.com and will be officially released early 2011.

Fact #1 - HTML5 is a Gigantic Mess!

HTML5 implementation is left to the browser… So what does that mean? It means that unlike the Flash Player which is the same everywhere and work the same everywhere, HTML5 is implemented by browser vendors, so basically Safari, Chrome, IE, Firefox, Opera all have their own way to deal with HTML5 and render it on screen.

As a result, developers using HTML5 spend 25% to 50% of their time making sure that each step works well on each and every browser, or don’t and deliver websites that will be broken in some browsers. Apple will make sure it breaks on IE, Chrome or Firefox and then will tell us “that’s because you don’t use Safari!”. Who use Safari anyway? 5% of users worldwide and 11% in the US! HTML and CSS are a nightmare I went through for years (I’ve done HTML and CSS for 11 years) until Flash came into my life. HTML5 is no exception.

Now who decides the future of HTML5? Google, Adobe, Mozilla, Apple… all competitors, most of which owning a browser, each with their own agenda, trying to block each other at one point or another. All those people have to agree before anything is added into the HTML5 standard.

Then, we have to wait for each browser vendor to implement the new features or changes. Did I mention that any browser vendor can decide to not implement a new feature at all even though it was added to the HTML5 standard? The’ve done it in the past and they will do it again, usually to block a competitor’s technology or product. When a feature is not implemented by any of the browsers then developers can’t use it, or the page will only work on certain browsers. A nightmare in a nightmare.

Meanwhile, Adobe has some of the best software rocket scientists on earth and does not need anyone’s approval to innovate. Its Digital Video and Rich Internet Application (RIA) technologies including Flash, Flex and AIR work everywhere in a consistent manner on the web, desktops, mobiles, tablets, IP connected TVs including all browsers, platforms and operating systems but Apple’s.
 
@flexengineer
looks like you are really motivated to show everyone why flash should stay, some points you point out are maybe right and for some things flash might be better but in the end no one cares, apple will sell probably two times the devices it sold last year and it keeps growing faster and faster and I don't think they will ever release flash for any ios device, it's just a matter of time until flash will be a rare plugin used for desktop games or special sites just for desktop computers, flash is dying fast.
 
nexsta said:
@flexengineer
looks like you are really motivated to show everyone why flash should stay, some points you point out are maybe right and for some things flash might be better but in the end no one cares, apple will sell probably two times the devices it sold last year and it keeps growing faster and faster and I don't think they will ever release flash for any ios device, it's just a matter of time until flash will be a rare plugin used for desktop games or special sites just for desktop computers, flash is dying fast.
Click to expand...

Apple will never sell more units than Android, Google just hit 300,000 unit a day, up from 200,000 unit a day last summer, even Steve Wowzniak admitted Android will beat iOS in numbers. That is all it takes. Flash will be on every smart phone and tablets but Apple. Just a question of time before Apple's customers realize that they were screwed. When they will see Flash working on all their friends phone they will demand it from Apple. That is when Steve will bend. He will make some PR magic and say "see, Adobe has listened" when in fact he got shut by FTC and EU. Raising awareness is all we have to do to make him swallow his dust and shut his big mouth.
 
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cocky jeremy said:
Flash is still going to die eventually. The internet went from a very small percentage of sites having HTML5 to over 50% within a few months of the iPad being released. The last i read it's closer to 78% now. At some point Flash will be phased out. Like it or not. Sure, it'll be on a random site here and there, but in general, it's going to die.
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HTML is not on 50% of the sites on the web..... more lies. HTML 5 is not supported across the web yet.
 
When surfing the net with my iPod Touch nowadays, I seldom encounter the infamous "blue-box-with-question-mark".
The thing is that sensible web-masters make the effort of providing mobile versions of the site they're running and, on top of that, some even make their content available through tailored apps.
Flash has became mostly irrelevant on mobile platforms and it's Adobe's own fault.
 
cocky jeremy said:
It is in videos.

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/10/27/report-html5-web-video-usage-doubled-in-5-months/
Click to expand...

From my blog:

Lie #1: Web Video is converted to HTML5

SOME video on the web is ALSO encoded for HTML5 playback today because Apple abused its dominance to manipulate the mobile entertainment, digital content and application markets, by blocking on iPhone and iPad the de-facto standard for online media streaming and Rich Internet Application (RIA), also know as the “Adobe Flash Player”. Engineers from Youtube and Vimeo explained how Apple dictated the implementation of HTML5.

* HTML5 implementation has tripled their engineering time & cost.

“Apple’s stance also created significantly more work for sites like YouTube and Vimeo. In order to meet their users’ playback needs, their coding work could easily be doubled or tripled if they want to appear on Apple’s many mobile devices. And they absolutely do want to be on them. ‘You want your users to be able to playback video on any device they’re using, so we do the extra coding because it’s important to be on the iPad and the iPhone,’ said Vimeo g.m. Dae Mellencamp.”
Karen Idelson, Variety, November 24, 2010.

* HTML5 was implemented in addition to Flash and not instead.

“Google has made it quite clear that despite its general advocacy of open standards, it believes there’s still quite a bit of life left in Flash. In fact, it’s even baking it into its Chrome browser. Today, YouTube software engineer John Harding took to the site’s official blog. The gist of it: while HTML5 is great, it can’t do everything YouTube (or most mainstream video sites) need.”
Jason Kincais, TechCrunch, June 29, 2010.

* HTML5 is no replacement for Flash.

“While HTML5’s video support enables us to bring most of the content and features of YouTube to computers and other devices that don’t support Flash Player, it does not yet meet all of our needs. Today, Adobe Flash provides the best platform for YouTube’s video distribution requirements, which is why our primary video player is built with it.”
John Harding, Software Engineer, Youtube, June 29, 2010.


Fact #2 - Apple is Acting in Bad Faith.

All the above shows how better off everyone would be if Apple would have collaborated with Adobe to improve performance and let Flash and HTML5 co-exist, instead Apple decided to play hardball and propaganda becoming an obstacle to innovation through anti-competitive and unfair practices.

Apple tries to sabotage the browser to make it commercially useless by banning Flash Player and faking to replace it with HTML5 in order to protect application, movie, video and music sales on its AppStore and iTunes.

Let’s face it, who would bother to buy and install apps or game on iPhone or iPad if users could just browse to a web page and have the app or game right there? That is what Flash offers.

Also, Flash would permit secure streaming of premium content such as movies and shows from major studios directly in the browser, totally bypassing Apple’s AppStore and iTunes. This is not possible with HTML5 as it does not permit to stream content securely using protection mechanisms approved by movie and TV studios, which is a non negociable requirements for all premium video streaming platform such as Hulu and Netflix.

Therefore, by only allowing HTML5 on its browser, Apple ensures that no one will compete with its digital distribution channels (iTunes and AppStore).

Fortunately for us, both the European Commission and the US Federal Trade Commission are giving Apple a reality check:

* EU constrained Apple to stop banning Adobe’s development tool to convert Flash applications into iPhone native applications.

Jacqueline Bell, Law 360 on June 29, 2010: The European Commission probe began in the wake of Apple’s April 2010 decision to require independent developers of iPhone applications to use only Apple’s own programming tools and company-approved programming languages when writing iPhone applications. The commission said Saturday it had been concerned that those restrictions could have ultimately curbed competition from devices running platforms other than Apple’s. Earlier this month, Apple announced it was removing those restrictions and giving developers more flexibility, the commission noted.

Joaquin Almunia, European Competition Commissioner on June 2010: Apple’s response to our preliminary investigations shows that the commission can use the competition rules to achieve swift results on the market with clear benefits for consumers, without the need to open formal proceedings.

* FTC constrained Apple to approve Google Voice application on iPhone.
* FTC is still investigating why Apple banned Flash Player and whether or not they are abusing market dominance to manipulate application and digital music markets in violation of anti-trust laws.



Fact #3 - Apple’s HTML5 Showcase is a Scam!

Apple had to spend a fortune and took forever to build their showcase, now used to mislead developers about HTML5 capabilities. Some of the country’s best engineers built Apple’s HTML5 sample applications, engineers that most company could not find even if they could afford them.

Mozilla evangelist: Apple HTML5 demos harm the open Web

http://arstechnica.com/open-source/...vangelist-criticizes-apple-html5-showcase.ars
 
^ Did you ever consider that consumers might prefer not to have to rely on a proprietary plugin for content delivery/consumption?
 
I'm pretty sure if you google Michael Jackson is still alive you would find articles supporting it. Does that mean he really is still alive?

HTML5 Wins over Microsoft and Adobe

http://informitv.com/news/2010/10/28/html5winsover/


HTML5 Wins web face-off against Adobe

http://mashable.com/2010/02/23/web-faceoff-adobe-flash-vs-html5/



Let’s face it, who would bother to buy and install apps or game on iPhone or iPad if users could just browse to a web page and have the app or game right there? That is what Flash offers.
Click to expand...

So are you saying that those with Android phones featuring Flash don't buy apps or games?

What website would we play Angry Birds on?? :eek:

Ok, now I really may be done with this thread. :D
 
Moyank24 said:
I'm pretty sure if you google Michael Jackson is still alive you would find articles supporting it. Does that mean he really is still alive?
Click to expand...

Will laugh hard who will laugh last :)

Moyank24 said:
So are you saying that those with Android phones featuring Flash don't buy apps or games?
Click to expand...

No, I am saying that on Android with Flash a lot of the fun happens directly in the browser, Android's users do not buy as much. iPhone users accept to pay for everything and let Apple suck the money through iTunes and AppStore.

Adobe and Google put the browser upfront.

HTML5 and Flash are going to co exist, there is no such thing as HTML5 ever being ahead of Adobe, I explained it in great details earlier.

Apple has a pretty good market share so keeping HTML5 and nothing else is going to oblige the big sites like Youtube to also offer HTML5 but Flash will always be ahead. We are not getting the full experience on the iPhone, we do not get the Youtube Player on the iPhone and we will not get the full creative experience that the crowd of Flash developers create.

I am a consultant, Adobe hires me from time to time, 6 month ago they sent me 4 weeks on location at one of the nation's top 10 broadcasting networks, my mission was to assess client's needs and infrastructure and make a recommendation for technical approach along with architecture based on Adobe Flash Platform. Another company had an HTML5 based offering. The network retained my recommendation and contracted Adobe Consulting to develop this multi-million dollars project with the Flash Platform. That is one of the many companies working with Adobe.

Look what you will be missing:

BlackBerry PlayBook and iPad Comparison: Web Fidelity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s72rGDUn2uo

Once again, HTML5 for Apple and the choice between HTML5 or Flash for the rest of us (once I switch).

But stop saying Flash is dead because it is only in Steve's mind and it is insulting. I work hard, I am freaking good at what I do and that is all I do. I was first with VH1.com to implement CSS when everyone was style using tables. HTML5 does not do it for me, it does not allow me to deliver the best. Saying Flash is dead it's saying I am an idiot because if HTML5 was so good I would be selling it to my client instead. I don't and I won't.
 
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What is this 2004? Need to get your Homestarrunner fix? Seriously. No one cares about Flash anymore except for Flash developers that are angry that the proprietary plugin architecture that they invested so much time in is falling into decline. Get over it.
 
Moyank24 said:
Not really...

http://www.devicemag.com/2010/12/28...rate-of-103sec-with-200000-on-offer-estimates
Click to expand...

And how a lot of those installable application will be built? With Adobe AIR using the same ActionScript code than on the web. And the tablets and the TV's. Code once with presentation model design pattern and deploy everywhere by just interchanging the view. Flash is serious programming, ActionScript is a true object oriented programing, HTML5 does not not deliver.

http://blogs.adobe.com/air/2010/10/adobe-air-2-is-now-available.html

Now, how many are free? How much money compare to the iTunes and AppStore? Android's user spend less.
 
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flexengineer said:
And how a lot of those installable application will be built? With Adobe AIR using the same ActionScript code than on the web. And the tablets and the TV's. Code one with presentation model and deploy everywhere by just adapting the view.

Now, how many are free? How much money compare to the iTunes and AppStore? Android's user spend less.
Click to expand...

I have no idea what you are talking about in that first paragraph. And neither would the average consumer. Nor do they care. They just like Apps. The bottom line is, Android users are purchasing/adding apps at a high rate; which is the exact opposite of what you said.

And many of the Apps that are substitues for visiting web pages, like ebay, facebook, twitter, etc.. are free.

Of course, instead of admitting you are wrong, you just find something else to argue about. :D
 
Why are you trolling an Apple website? Take your pro-Flash rhetoric to an Android website. No one cares.
 
Moyank24 said:
I have no idea what you are talking about in that first paragraph. And neither would the average consumer. Nor do they care. They just like Apps. The bottom line is, Android users are purchasing/adding apps at a high rate; which is the exact opposite of what you said.

And many of the Apps that are substitues for visiting web pages, like ebay, facebook, twitter, etc.. are free.

Of course, instead of admitting you are wrong, you just find something else to argue about. :D
Click to expand...

Once again (and AIR is Flash):

Adobe AIR 2.5 is Now Available!
http://blogs.adobe.com/air/2010/10/adobe-air-2-is-now-available.html

Adobe is pleased to announce at the Adobe MAX 2010 conference the availability of Adobe AIR 2.5 for televisions, tablets, smartphones and desktop operating systems. Adobe AIR 2.5 now supports:

* Smartphones and tablets based on BlackBerry® Tablet OS, Android™ and iOS
* Desktops running on Windows®, Macintosh and Linux® operating systems
* Televisions with Samsung as the first television manufacturer to ship Adobe AIR in its line of Samsung SmartTV devices

Also device manufactures Acer, HTC, Motorola, RIM, Samsung and others are expected to ship the AIR runtime pre-installed on a variety of devices including tablets and smartphones later this year and early 2011. A list of mobile devices that meet the AIR system requirements can be found on Adobe.com.

Now with the Flash Platform, developers can use their existing web skills and reuse common code across devices and platforms to develop applications, content and video for the web on both personal computers and mobile devices or build standalone applications that run outside the browser on a wide range of devices, including TVs.

In just two short weeks after the AIR runtime was released on the Android Market, hundreds of AIR apps are already available in the Android Market for smartphones and tablets with AIR currently ranked 4.5 out of 5 stars on the Android Market. In addition, AIR apps are also available in Apple’s App Store. You can visit AppBrain for a list of AIR apps for Android currently available on the Android Market. This is what a few of our customers had to say about AIR 2.5:

Associated Press: ”The Associated Press is very pleased using Adobe AIR to make some of our features covering the upcoming midterm elections available on the iPhone and Android devices.”

- Brian R. Scanlon, Director, Election Services, The Associated Press

Emantras: The ROI and resource savings to create applications with Adobe AIR and the Flash Platform is truly game changing. It is the only solution available that allows you to reuse code to target smartphones, tablets, desktops, and TV’s. The ability to deliver elearning content on multiple devices makes learning accessible to just about everyone.

- Sesh Kumar, CEO, Emantras Inc.

South Park Digital Studios: “With Adobe AIR 2.5, we were able to leverage existing code to quickly launch a new version of our popular South Park Avatar Creator across multiple platforms, letting our fans create their own South Park alter ego on the web or their Android smartphones and tablets.”

-Greg Kampanis, Senior Vice President of Content Strategy and Operations, South Park Studios

MixMatchMusic: With Adobe AIR we use the same code for desktops, tablets and smart phones, which saves us time, money and provides efficiencies of deployment. Then, we can quickly and efficiently distribute these apps through Adobe’s application distribution service, Adobe InMarket.

- Charles Feinn, CEO and co-founder of MixMatchMusic, developer of the MobBase mobile app service

You can learn more about all the new features for television, mobile and desktop devices in the article “What’s new in AIR 2.5” written by the AIR product management team and if you can’t join us at MAX you can attend MAX virtually by watching the keynote speech live. Here is the schedule of the MAX live broadcasts:

* Welcome to the Revolution: Monday, October 25, 9:30 am-11:30 am PDT

* User Experience: The Next Generation: Tuesday, October 26, 10:00 am-12:00 pm PDT

Finally, Adobe also announced two additional pieces of AIR related news. First, an update to the open source Flex framework and a preview release of Flash Builder that will enable developers to now build applications for mobile devices as well as desktops and TVs. Also, Adobe InMarket™, a new service that allows developers to easily distribute and sell their applications on app stores across different device types on app stores from Acer, Intel, and others is now available.

Stay tuned this week for more exciting information from the MAX conference and new about AIR.
 
flexengineer said:
Once again (and AIR is Flash):

Adobe AIR 2.5 is Now Available!
http://blogs.adobe.com/air/2010/10/adobe-air-2-is-now-available.html

Adobe is pleased to announce at the Adobe MAX 2010 conference the availability of Adobe AIR 2.5 for televisions, tablets, smartphones and desktop operating systems. Adobe AIR 2.5 now supports:

* Smartphones and tablets based on BlackBerry® Tablet OS, Android™ and iOS
* Desktops running on Windows®, Macintosh and Linux® operating systems
* Televisions with Samsung as the first television manufacturer to ship Adobe AIR in its line of Samsung SmartTV devices

Also device manufactures Acer, HTC, Motorola, RIM, Samsung and others are expected to ship the AIR runtime pre-installed on a variety of devices including tablets and smartphones later this year and early 2011. A list of mobile devices that meet the AIR system requirements can be found on Adobe.com.

Now with the Flash Platform, developers can use their existing web skills and reuse common code across devices and platforms to develop applications, content and video for the web on both personal computers and mobile devices or build standalone applications that run outside the browser on a wide range of devices, including TVs.

In just two short weeks after the AIR runtime was released on the Android Market, hundreds of AIR apps are already available in the Android Market for smartphones and tablets with AIR currently ranked 4.5 out of 5 stars on the Android Market. In addition, AIR apps are also available in Apple’s App Store. You can visit AppBrain for a list of AIR apps for Android currently available on the Android Market. This is what a few of our customers had to say about AIR 2.5:

Associated Press: ”The Associated Press is very pleased using Adobe AIR to make some of our features covering the upcoming midterm elections available on the iPhone and Android devices.”

- Brian R. Scanlon, Director, Election Services, The Associated Press

Emantras: The ROI and resource savings to create applications with Adobe AIR and the Flash Platform is truly game changing. It is the only solution available that allows you to reuse code to target smartphones, tablets, desktops, and TV’s. The ability to deliver elearning content on multiple devices makes learning accessible to just about everyone.

- Sesh Kumar, CEO, Emantras Inc.

South Park Digital Studios: “With Adobe AIR 2.5, we were able to leverage existing code to quickly launch a new version of our popular South Park Avatar Creator across multiple platforms, letting our fans create their own South Park alter ego on the web or their Android smartphones and tablets.”

-Greg Kampanis, Senior Vice President of Content Strategy and Operations, South Park Studios

MixMatchMusic: With Adobe AIR we use the same code for desktops, tablets and smart phones, which saves us time, money and provides efficiencies of deployment. Then, we can quickly and efficiently distribute these apps through Adobe’s application distribution service, Adobe InMarket.

- Charles Feinn, CEO and co-founder of MixMatchMusic, developer of the MobBase mobile app service

You can learn more about all the new features for television, mobile and desktop devices in the article “What’s new in AIR 2.5” written by the AIR product management team and if you can’t join us at MAX you can attend MAX virtually by watching the keynote speech live. Here is the schedule of the MAX live broadcasts:

* Welcome to the Revolution: Monday, October 25, 9:30 am-11:30 am PDT

* User Experience: The Next Generation: Tuesday, October 26, 10:00 am-12:00 pm PDT

Finally, Adobe also announced two additional pieces of AIR related news. First, an update to the open source Flex framework and a preview release of Flash Builder that will enable developers to now build applications for mobile devices as well as desktops and TVs. Also, Adobe InMarket™, a new service that allows developers to easily distribute and sell their applications on app stores across different device types on app stores from Acer, Intel, and others is now available.

Stay tuned this week for more exciting information from the MAX conference and new about AIR.
Click to expand...

TL;DR

And once again:

No, I am saying that on Android with Flash a lot of the fun happens directly in the browser, Android's users do not buy as much. iPhone users accept to pay for everything and let Apple suck the money through iTunes and AppStore.

Adobe and Google put the browser upfront.
Click to expand...

Android users buy Apps also...

You can cover up being wrong by deflecting with useless information, but it doesn't mean you aren't wrong. :rolleyes:
 
@flexengineer What exactly are you trying to prove here? You're on an Apple site arguing against Apple. You must realize that you aren't going to get anywhere, no matter how substantive your arguments may or may not be. You're coming off as a huge troll and only adding to everyone's frustration with the increasingly incessant apologist attitude towards Adobe's stagnated plugin.
 
milani said:
@flexengineer What exactly are you trying to prove here? You're on an Apple site arguing against Apple. You must realize that you aren't going to get anywhere, no matter how substantive your arguments may or may not be. You're coming off as a huge troll and only adding to everyone's frustration with the increasingly incessant apologist attitude towards Adobe's stagnated plugin.
Click to expand...


STOP saying Flash is dead and Steve should leave us alone. A bit of respect for our work would be appreciated but I can't blame you, you can't see it.
 
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milani said:
Why are you trolling an Apple website? Take your pro-Flash rhetoric to an Android website. No one cares.
Click to expand...

And even there many thinking posters will laugh him away.

I'm a big Android fan, and I never use Flash on my Androidz.
 
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