History of the MBP Repeats Itself...

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Flow39, Nov 12, 2016.

  1. Flow39 macrumors 68000

    Flow39

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    #1
    So today I was watching the unveiling of the 2008 unibody MBP for fun since it was in my recommended videos on YouTube, and after watching through the first half hour or so, a thought struck me. I noticed that Apple was removing a lot of ports such as FireWire and they didn't add a BluRay drive even when everyone wanted it. I decided to come to MR Forums and look through the archives to find the 2008 MBP media event coverage to see what people's reactions were. After taking a read, here's what I found:

    People are complaining about the same things now as they were back then. Notice how all of the people are complaining about the removal of ports? Wow, same thing is happening now! Take a look at how many people are complaining about Apple's pricing and how Apple is going to "price themselves out of the market." I've read loads of the same types of comments now about the 2016 MBP. Tons of people were complaining about Apple's decision to include less than desktop class GPUs and how Apple was focusing more on battery life then on performance. Guess what, the same comments are around again now that the 2016 MBP is out. Even back then, people were complaining about how bad Apple was getting and how they had abandoned the Pro market entirely since the Mac Pro wasn't as good as comparable Windows machines and they removed ports and raised prices of the MBP/MBA. There were people who had gone out and purchased a Windows machine because "the Mac is falling behind and is not a good value." Again, I'm seeing the same types of posts all the time around here now, as well. Oh, and of course there were lots of the "Sell your shares now, Apple's doomed" types of posts which are consistently around as well. You get the idea :D

    It's funny how this seems to happen every time Apple refreshes any of their computers. So many people hate on them and point out every flaw in them without actually using them first. I won't lie, I was initially disappointed in the new MBP based on the price and the lack of some ports, but guess what? Apple has done this in the past and, based on history, they seem to know what they are doing. After letting the initial annoyance wear off, I actually quite like the new MBP, and if I were in the market, it would be at the top of my list. I do believe that the pricing of the new MBP is a little too high, but if history repeats itself, the next generation MBP will drop in price, just like what happened with the original $1300 MBA which dropped in price after a generation or two down to a normal, more affordable price. I'm not here suggesting that new the new MBP is flawless and perfect in every way, because it isn't, but I'm simply making the point that Apple knows what they are doing. Sure, port removal and price increases are irritating to a number of consumers, but Apple is no stranger to this. They've done it many times throughout the last 20 years, and they are still not afraid to do it. People will complain, people will be bitter for awhile, but in the end, I'd bet that Apple knows what they are doing.

    * http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-october-2008-notebook-media-event-coverage.580326/ *
     
  2. mickeydean macrumors 6502

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    #2
    For the price, they should have included the dongles for a few basic things: USB3.0, HDMI, and SD card.
     
  3. Gixene macrumors regular

    Gixene

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    #3
    And my 4K television should have came with an antenna.
     
  4. Flow39 thread starter macrumors 68000

    Flow39

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    #4
    It's funny because the people were clamoring for Apple to include a FireWire 400 adapter when they removed that in the 2008 MBP.
     
  5. Hrududu macrumors 68020

    Hrududu

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    #5
    Not sure I follow you here. The MacBook Pro had FireWire until 2012. Its worth noting that removing a port or two that wasn't widely used like FireWire isn't the same as taking away USB A which literally almost everything uses these days. Its not even like removal of the old Apple I/0 from the original iMac back in 1998 since the only products on the market using those were Apple specific. USB A, HDMI & SD are all industry wide standards which are on products sold for all platforms across the globe. This removal of ports is as big a deal as people make it out to be especially on a "pro" level device.
     
  6. zhenya macrumors 603

    zhenya

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    #6
    It's exactly the same type of move as Apple made in 1998 when they removed the floppy drive - which was also an industry wide standard, and which required the purchase of, at a minimum, an ~$100 external usb floppy drive as opposed to today where compatibility is restored for less than $10.
     
  7. Flow39 thread starter macrumors 68000

    Flow39

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    #7
    The point I was trying to make is that people get all sorts of bent out of shape every time Apple refreshes a computer and removes a port or two, yet, in the end, Apple got it right even though they were a little early. Literally every time it's the same complaints that then turn out to not be a big problem after we all adapt.

    FireWire 400 was removed, but the other version of FireWire (800) stayed. A lot of people used the 400 to transfer videos and music to iPods, which now required an adapter to do. This caused a lot of complaints for people who relied on it heavily, not unlike the removal of USB-A, although on a smaller scale.

    I do wish Apple kept the SD card slot(for now), but as for the other ports, USB-C is the future and will replace all of them. USB-C can transfer power, data, output for displays, audio, and can be used as an IO port for peripherals. All of those other ports can be used for only one or two of those things at most. Type C is pretty much the port we've wanted for years and I hope more manufacturers usher it in quickly. I do understand the mindset of the pro users though.
     
  8. brynsmith23 macrumors regular

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    #8
    Every time Apple do a Refresh it's the end of the world for some of these guys.

    TB3/USB-C is the way forward... just like all the connections that were superseded in the past.
     
  9. BenTrovato macrumors 68020

    BenTrovato

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    #9
    OP you're bang on with everything you said. About 3 weeks late though :)
     
  10. arbitrage macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    OP...great post...I read these complaints every time including 2012 with the removal of a ethernet and the DVD drive...give me a break...DVD drive....geez!!

    People love to complain. I would not have even considered this new 2016 if it hadn't gotten thinner, lighter and moved to all TB3 ports. I hate when companies just update minor specs year after year and are afraid to step into the future. That is why I will spend an enormous amount of money on this 2016 model to replace my 2012 original rMBP (without the DVD drive...thank you Apple!!)
     
  11. EndlessBuffoonery macrumors regular

    EndlessBuffoonery

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    #11
    Why? Why would buying a thing entitle you to free accessories? BMWs are expensive but they don't give you the accessories for free just because you chose to buy an expensive car.
     
  12. leman macrumors 604

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    Oct 14, 2008
    #12
    Yep, this was mentioned a number of times by a number of posters already, but most MBP critics apparently have a memory span of a fly. It's exactly the same situation as in 2008 and then 2012. Apple is simply following its established design vision for laptops, which they did without any changes for at least a decade now or more.
     
  13. PaulWog Suspended

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    #13
    At least my 4k tv came with USB ports
     
  14. Gixene macrumors regular

    Gixene

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    #14
    You carry your 4K television outside of your home?
     
  15. arbitrage macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    4K is so 2014....my 8K TV is on its way from Japan and its all USB-C all the way....
     
  16. PaulWog Suspended

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    #16
    Is that a joke? There is such a thing as 8k tv's (I think).

    Anything greater than 4k I wouldn't really understand, unless if the screen is designed to be viewed and interacted with much closer (but then one would think it would be measured in PPI rather than resolution, ex. for walls covered with screens for virtual rooms).

    New TV is the Samsung 9500-series 65 inch. Pretty impressed with it.

    Would love the 55-inch as a desktop monitor.
     
  17. Bryan Bowler macrumors 68040

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    #17
    LOL, you are right! Same exact thing 8 years ago as it is now! You've made some great points! LOL
     
  18. brynsmith23 macrumors regular

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    #18
    8K....

    They are only just starting to support 4k, well, via Netflix and 4K BluRay

    In the last 6 months upgraded to a new Denon HDR 4K AV Receiver, a PS4 Pro, which i picked up on Friday.

    Will be looking at a New Samsung 75inch 4K mid next year to replace the 2014 Samsung 75inch HD.

    By then there should be a AppleTV 4K to go with a new TV.

    Played a bit of FIFA17 on the new PS4 Pro, it does look clearer than the normal PS4... could just be the better Graphics card.

    Now where is the new MBP....
     
  19. aleni macrumors 68020

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    #19
    i love the direction we're going with usb-c. everything can be plugged in into 1 port. so no more a lot of plug on the left and right side of the notebook. but i agree with this high price, they should include all in one dongle for free of charge. 1 dock for charging, 2 usb slots, 1 hdmi and 1 sdcard.
     
  20. malu05a, Nov 13, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016

    malu05a macrumors newbie

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    #20
    You are actually spot.
    Back in 2008 I was in a big post production facility that was dominated by macs. All of the editors was using Final Cut Pro, Colorists Apple Color and the Compositing guys was either using Apple Shake or Thefoundry's Nuke on big Mac Pro workstations. The server room had big apple racks, and everyone was quite happy. Skip forward to 2012...
    Final Cut pro was fully replaced Avid, all the apple racks was gone and the Mac Pro's was replaced by PC's. Yes, apple did start to leave the high end pro market back then.
    Photographers and smaller editing / motion design studios lived on with the quite decent iMac's that came out at the time. They were decently spec'ed and look great in the office. And they do to the day today. But due to the advancements in GPU powered workflows many of the motion design studios are now moving to PC's to take advantage of the extra horse power Nvidia GPU's give them in AE and all the GPU render engines such as Octane.

    Back to the Macbook pro. The departure of firewire was met with some scepticism by the pro community back then, but the USB world had taken over the old Apple standard, and Apple gave up on it. No one really needed BluRay playback back then, so i guess most of thoes complaints came from the fanboys.
    With the introduction of HDMI and SD card reader, it became a superior on-set device and generally something that you could take with you when traveling. And compared to the competition it was quite decently spec'ed.

    In terms of the 2016 MBP: The price is not that much of a show stopper for "pro" users, but the fact that you now need even more crap (dongles) in your all ready filled travel/onset backpack makes it a less attractive device. Also the fact that most Thunderbolt 3 devices are not supported makes it just that much worse. (the last thing you want is to go look at forums to figure if some hardware you need to buy is supported or not).

    Apple is slowly leaving the pro community and doubling down on the casual users and that is just perfect. It's a bigger market with more room to do creative new ideas without alienating their audience. I am perfectly fine with taking a dell laptop with me on-set for professional work and then use my MacPro at home to do casual stuff.
     
  21. tann macrumors 68000

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    #21
    No this is a fair comment. USB 3.0 should have been included in the box. The USB port is to the Mac what the headphone jack was to the iPhone.
     
  22. Rogifan macrumors P6

    Rogifan

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    #22
    Then why did Apple include a 3.5mm headphone jack dongle with iPhone 7? Including a USB-C to A adapter in the box would have been a good will gesture. Same with lightening. It would've shown that Apple understands there is short term pain in transitions. And would've shown that Apple didn't remove ports to make money off of people needing to buy adapters.
     
  23. sunapple macrumors 6502a

    sunapple

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    #23
  24. MH01 macrumors G4

    MH01

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    #24
    The only issue here OP is that you can apply your argument to anything that apple makes, cause its based on the assumption that Apple gets it right and the rest is history, the spanner in that assumption is though that Apple is under new leadership now, and hence why so many have doubts about this change.

    The whole jumping on new tech has never actually worked for apple, I speak about, firewire, mini display port, thunderbolt etc even since 2012 its a standard no-one gives a **** about, its great, but waste of port for most. If the PC world picks it up, it will work.

    What is happening here is effectively Apple launching the 2008 MacBook with 4xFirewire ports....hailing it the future, Apple users have to put up with annoying dongles and the PC world.....the VAST majority just don't give a crap, the main issue is that TB does not solve a problem that PC desktop users face.....TB solves the issue that laptop users face, most people who use computers, use desktops the issues that TB solves are actually available natively in that one box they have.

    The classic example of this is the 2012 Mac Pro and 2013 Mac Pro, the 2012 does not need TB, the components are inside and can be upgraded, with the 2013 you use TB to move them outside the box......and we all know how that worked out, Great looking machine to show off, but a ***** mess of cables and accessories to move components from a desktop to outside it......this might fill in a few reasons on why people are complaining.

    TB has not been adopted since 2012.....so almost 5 years, and suddenly TB3 is the answer.....its a solution to the wrong problem. 99% of users would have preferred just USB-A.

    I sometimes get sick of pushing new standards that never take off.....Firewire, Mini Display, TB etc etc, which also happened to make extra money and apple...

    And this is coming from someone that is a huge supporter of TB, I am really glad of the TB ports in the new Mac Book but I am such a minority here, I love TB, and looking forward to trying an egpu in the new MacBook pro, for the average user, is a complete waste of money, annoying and a massive money spinner in dongle sales....
    --- Post Merged, Nov 13, 2016 ---
    Damage control. Not even they were arrogant enough to sell almost the same phone 3 years running, remove a port for their benefit and not give a good will gesture back.

    That $9 dongle that cost them cents is nothing compare from what they get from all the new headphones that use the lighting port

    Same reason they just dropped prices on USB-C dongles, to give the illusion of happy transition. The markup on those is absolutely disgusting.....

    And once they get over the "launch" the prices will go back up....How much profit would you say there is in a $70 dongle? MASSIVE :)
     
  25. EndlessBuffoonery macrumors regular

    EndlessBuffoonery

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    #25
    You would have to ask Apple. I'd assume that it's because people who buy iPhones often don't have Apple computers so they are less interested in a phone that can't use their existing headphones. Also probably because they knew the world would make a big fuss over the headphone jack going away.

    The same can't be said for USB-C to USB-A. Most people buying a new MacBook or MacBook Pro understand that they are buying an expensive computer which may need new cables. Also, there is much less of a fuss over switching between USB standards on a computer.
     

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