lossless audio requires higher bandwidth than bluetooth 5.0 so maybe this is just the excuse Apple needs to make a new wireless standard for high bitrates? Wireless lightning!
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HomePod Will Support Spatial Audio for Apple Music, But Not Lossless Audio
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Well, the main article says that Macrumors has received confirmation that Homepod does not support the new Apple Music "Lossless" option. And other news sources report the same thing.
I suspect that the issue may be that in stupid Apple fashion they are redefining what "Lossless" means.
According to the Apple press release:
"Apple Music’s Lossless tier starts at CD quality, which is 16 bit at 44.1 kHz (kilohertz), and goes up to 24 bit at 48 kHz and is playable natively on Apple devices. For the true audiophile, Apple Music also offers Hi-Resolution Lossless all the way up to 24 bit at 192 kHz."
Ripping a CD into ALAC is merely 16bit at 44.1kHz. Perhaps the Homepod can do that over Wifi.
However, "Apple Music Lossless" is also 24bit at 48kHz, which may be the kicker for Homepod hardware.
Though "Apple Lossless" (ALAC) is a container format, so if any hardware device supports ALAC, it should support all variants of it.
Though it seems Homepod does not actually support ALAC, it just supports -some- variants of it.
Apple really are losing it...
Ya, those speakers definitely can cover the entire dynamic range of audio.
Is Eddy Cue the one behind this botched feature?
The man has just NEVER been able to release anything properly.
The man has just NEVER been able to release anything properly.
Those things mentioned are all examples of lossless. Do you have a differing definition?
I can stream lossless audio to my HomePod via airplay 2, I'm sure it will work with Apple Music files
Sometimes Apple is really stupid.
This is definitely one of those times.
I think this has more to do with Apple not wanting to support a dead product with new features. But it's pretty stupid that nothing else really supports this. They'll probably use this to sell more high-end audio products in the future.
This is definitely one of those times.
I think this has more to do with Apple not wanting to support a dead product with new features. But it's pretty stupid that nothing else really supports this. They'll probably use this to sell more high-end audio products in the future.
Heh... Lossless audiophile quality audio rendered in a compact speaker like a HomePod. Yeah, that makes loads of sense.
Apple seems to be defining lossless support based on the capabilities of the DAC. So to mesntion a product, you should mention that DAC that is uses.
The issue is the HomePod DAC. The ifixit tear down has it using a CS4350 DAC. The CS4350 stereo audio digital/analog converter (DAC) features excellent dynamic range, out-of-band noise performance and on-chip phase-locked-loop (PLL) based main clock with 24-bit conversion and up to 216 kHz
Because a lot of other products do. Homepods aren’t good enough to hear a difference. But something like my Formation Duos really do show the differences. KEF has the ls50 wireless, Devialet makes the Phantoms which were updated for airplay 2…then you have all the streamers that can handle lossless and hires streams from Tidal, Roon, etc and play them on our big rig systems.
I maintain an music subscription and a hires Tidal for this very reason. If I can stay on music, there goes the need for Tidal!
I've very confused as MacRumors posted an article earlier today, AirPods, AirPods Max and AirPods Pro Don't Support Apple Music Lossless Audio which says:
"AirPods, AirPods Pro, and AirPods Max are limited to the Bluetooth AAC codec when paired with an iPhone, and won't be able to stream Apple Music lossless files, Apple confirmed to T3.
Apple did not mention AirPods compatibility in its press release announcing the new functionality, and on its website, Apple confirms that lossless audio can be listened to on an iPhone, iPad, Mac, or Apple TV, and T3 also says that HomePod is compatible even though it wasn't listed in Apple's announcement."
Which is it, MacRumors?
"AirPods, AirPods Pro, and AirPods Max are limited to the Bluetooth AAC codec when paired with an iPhone, and won't be able to stream Apple Music lossless files, Apple confirmed to T3.
Apple did not mention AirPods compatibility in its press release announcing the new functionality, and on its website, Apple confirms that lossless audio can be listened to on an iPhone, iPad, Mac, or Apple TV, and T3 also says that HomePod is compatible even though it wasn't listed in Apple's announcement."
Which is it, MacRumors?
Except a HomePod is not a premium speaker. That’s the point. It’s a slightly better than average kitchen speaker. Premium speakers worth playing hires audio on is the market for hires… B and W, Kef, Devialet, Naim, etc all sell products that will take advantage of this.
Admittedly, it’s a niche market, but I’m glad is in it now.
False. Tons of devices support lossless streaming services. doesn’t make any (yet), but the market is already there and the devices aren’t new.
"slightly better than average kitchen speaker."
Audiophile Review: HomePod 'Sounds Better' Than $999 KEF X300A Digital Hi-Fi Speakers
HomePod reviews from the tech press came thick and fast last week, and while the smart speaker's sound quality was consistently praised, most...
www.macrumors.com
It’s a huge swipe at Spotify and Tidal etc. - Offering lossless and Hi-Res allows many people like myself to cut the cord with other lossless services like Tidal and quite soon Spotify. I imagine that soon Apple will have ready to play wireless products with a proper DAC builtin. Believe it or not the old Apple AirPort Express system had support for digital via an optical connector that you could attach to a DAC or amplifier. That’s how I used to play ALAC.
Looks like this shouldn’t be the issue then. And neither should Bluetooth constraints. Sooooo… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You're kidding, right? It's entirely like Apple to do this. Just look at Airplay 2, which allowed for stereo pairing of HomePods. You'd think that Apple would incorporate the stereo pairing feature into the MacOS right away, so that you could stream from your desktop to a stereo pair of HomePods. Well, it took Apple years to add this to a beta version of the OS. And of course the HomePod (the full-size version) is now discontinued.
Obviously, it would have made some sense for Apple to come out with a new and improved HomePod that was capable of receiving via WiFi and decoding ALAC files up to 192/24, just as it would have made sense for Apple to come out with an improved AAC Bluetooth codec capable of transmitting uncompressed audio of at least up to 48/24, and to have built this feature into the very pricey Airpod Max headphones. But apparently there's nobody at Apple who's thinking about the big picture here. So the Apple Music team adds lossless audio and lossless HD audio, but there's no Apple hardware products that can really take advantage of it. Sure, technically you can listen to lossless audio (but not HD lossless) on your iPhone and iPad using the built-in speakers, but who really wants to do that?
I don’t see why people are so wrapped around the idea that the expanded service has to be compatible with legacy devices. Throw them under the bus - that’s how consumer products evolve.
In the meantime I hope they are starting with a fresh slate and developing competitive high end product for the lossless market. But even if they do nothing the service will be a fantastic thing.
can’t wait until the service starts!
In the meantime I hope they are starting with a fresh slate and developing competitive high end product for the lossless market. But even if they do nothing the service will be a fantastic thing.
can’t wait until the service starts!
Yeah my main point was that you wouldn’t hear any difference on a $20 pair of wired headphones. Now on a really good pair of wired headphones, that’s a different story.
I'm not wedded to the idea that improvements in Apple serivces have to be compatible with legacy devices. At the very least, however, Apple ought to introduce new products that can take advantage of the imrpovements. But here, the hardware side of Apple seems to have been caught completely flat footed. The AirPods Max headphones, which were introduced very recently, can't play Apple lossless music. The HomePod, which can play some lossless files (but apparently nothing above 44.1/16) have been discontinued. It's just utterly bizarre that Apple would announce a major upgrade to Apple Music but not have any headphones or wireless speakers in production that are compatible with these improvements. That just strikes me as shoddy planning.
When you have them in a stereo pair, it does indeed. Studio monitors also come in various sizes from small and compact to large and bulky.
My EarthWorks sigma studio monitors are quite big compared to my HomePods and are much more neutral, but I’ve tried studio monitors that are about the same size as a HomePod.
“Better” is subjective in this context. I recall this post, and anyone who is a geek on speakers knows half his claims are bogus. Homepods are not flat. My $42,000 pair of speakers are hardly “flat.” And measurements don’t = great speakers. speaker and amp reviews rarely rely on measurements alone for this very reason. Don’t get me wrong, for the price, Homepods are great home speakers. They are fine speakers when used as a stereo"slightly better than average kitchen speaker."
Audiophile Review: HomePod 'Sounds Better' Than $999 KEF X300A Digital Hi-Fi Speakers
HomePod reviews from the tech press came thick and fast last week, and while the smart speaker's sound quality was consistently praised, most...
pair, but more suited for background music. Even at that, they are not capable of true separation and creating a laser focused sweet spot that makes the music seem to be playing from a floating space between the speakers. They aren’t even designed to give that experience. I am in a pretty niche audio world, but not a single “audiophile” (which is painfully overused) would sit and listen to a homepod. And you really wouldn’t hear the benefit of lossless on them. Great for a couple hundred bucks, but that’s about it.
I own 4 homepods. They are good for what they are. But they can’t touch my Formation Duos. I’d never even care to listen to lossless on them, because I’d never do any critical listening on them. At that, the duos are still pretty entry level to the world of high end audio that would benefit from a lossless format. Entry level “high end” wireless streaming speakers start at $2500 right now. My Duos are $5k. My big rig is the Magico S5 on Devialet Expert Pro amps… those are on a different planet, and that’s where I care about every extra 1/2% of improvement In quality. People in that world are deep in Roon and casually streaming Tidal. Lossless audio is a niche offering for that crowd. The typical user won’t really notice the difference nor would they care to spend enough on a rig to hear the difference.