HomePod Will Support Spatial Audio for Apple Music, But Not Lossless Audio

[ouimetnick]

i'd be betting some decent larger Bluetooth speakers sound better than $20 wired ones.

All the people getting so caught up in this probably using their 5.1 384kbs surround systems and thinking how good their movies sound

it's a free upgrade that will benefit some people.
take it at that.

Exactly, cheap wired headphones won’t sound as good as expensive wireless ones and vice-versa. Same could be said about Bluetooth speakers. I just don’t understand how they only want users to listen to lossless on the cheap tiny speakers found in an iPhone, iPad or Mac. I doubt the speakers in those devices are good enough for the listener to notice. Same for the HomePod mini with its dinky small singular speaker driver.

HomePod owners probably wouldn’t notice a difference either unless it’s a stereo pair. Even if the listener can’t tell any difference, I think it’s halfassed and bizarre they don’t support high res music on devices who’s sole purpose is to play audio (AirPod and HomePod products)

 

[ouimetnick]

I don’t see why people are so wrapped around the idea that the expanded service has to be compatible with legacy devices. Throw them under the bus - that’s how consumer products evolve.

In the meantime I hope they are starting with a fresh slate and developing competitive high end product for the lossless market. But even if they do nothing the service will be a fantastic thing.

can’t wait until the service starts!

I wouldn’t consider products Apple is selling today to be legacy devices. Is AirPods Max already a legacy device even though it was announced only 5 months ago?

 

[Benjamid]

Saw to option, loved it. Found out it does not work anywhere not even on Homepod. Hate rises….
So incredibly bad. Apple just shot itself in the foot here.

 

[0ceans]

I can’t wait to try out this new tier. Apple TV to my home theater is already where I listened to music most of the time - now I’ll get to enjoy a higher quality source to better take advantage of my speakers.

I have and love the HomePod but you’re fooling yourself if you think you’d be able to tell the difference between lossy and lossless on it.

 

[goobot]

They are introducing spacial audio with all of the devices support.

Lossless audio was never going to be supported by any of them, because its not possible. Should it not exist then? Let people who know how to use it take advantage of it.

Yea but there is no reason for homepod to not support it.

 

[Solomani]

Because most people don't even know what lossless audio is, and today are under the impression they're supposed to start caring about it.

If you didn't care about it before, you don't need to start today.

You know... it took exactly one Apple announcement to turn thousands of MacRumors followers into Expert Audiophiles.

 

[cmaier]

This really makes no sense.

I have tons of CDs converted to Apple Lossless in iTunes and all of them play just fine with Homepod.

Homepod was supposed to support ALAC, and it does.
No one ever suggested that the Homepod converts any ALAC iTunes content to AAC on the fly.

But I can try to do an A-B test with Homepod to see if my ALAC iTunes content sounds different to an AAC converted version. To double-check whether Homepod playing iTunes ALAC content is in fact internally merely AAC content...

LOL. Because anyone can hear the difference anyway. Funny how every blind test shows nobody can.

 

[citysnaps]

When you have them in a stereo pair, it does indeed. Studio monitors also come in various sizes from small and compact to large and bulky.

My EarthWorks sigma studio monitors are quite big compared to my HomePods and are much more neutral, but I’ve tried studio monitors that are about the same size as a HomePod.

I currently have five regular HomePods, four as two stereo pairs, and a single. I also have two HomePod minis.

My two stereo pair sets sound amazing for their size, and are an excellent value. But are far from audiophile quality.

 

[Dreamail]

Those things mentioned are all examples of lossless. Do you have a differing definition?

Me, no.

But it seems Apple redefined what "Lossless" means, in the sense of "Lossless" as it was for ALAC, compared to "Apple Music Lossless" which seemingly means a different thing.

Homepod never officially supported "ALAC" according to tech specs, it just supports AirPlay, which so far seemed to have played (or translated?) all ALAC content, regardless of bit and kHz on Homepod just fine.
But again, "Apple Music Lossless" maybe not be the same as ALAC or as AirPlay.

So who knows what is what and what supports what in these 3 incorporations of "Lossless" music.

Apple is having fun with us!

 

[boltjames]

Can someone enlighten me on how Spatial Audio will work with HomePods and Apple Music?

I assume I will need a stereo pair, enable SA in Settings, and then.....what? Place them X feet apart and I'm going to hear 3D audio all around my bathroom? Speakers in the middle of the room? Against a wall?

I don't care about Dolby Atmos for movies. Wondering what Sgt. Pepper is going to sound like in Spatial 3D and what I need to do to accomplish that.

Thanks.

 

[ErikGrim]

Me, no.

But it seems Apple redefined what "Lossless" means, in the sense of "Lossless" as it was for ALAC, compared to "Apple Music Lossless" which seemingly means a different thing.

Homepod never officially supported "ALAC" according to tech specs, it just supports AirPlay, which so far seemed to have played (or translated?) all ALAC content, regardless of bit and kHz on Homepod just fine.
But again, "Apple Music Lossless" maybe not be the same as ALAC or as AirPlay.

There's no reason to reinvent the wheel with a different format here. "Apple Music Lossless" will simply be ALAC in an m4p container.

 

[darthbane2k]

Sonos partnership to be announced in 5..4..3..

 

[starman111]

Ok then what’s the point of offering it if none of your speaker products support it in any way?

This is a chicken and egg problem. Why should hardware support lossless audio if it's not available for streaming, and why should streaming support it if no hardware can play it. It needs to start somewhere.

 

[boltjames]

This is a chicken and egg problem. Why should hardware support lossless audio if it's not available for streaming, and why should streaming support it if no hardware can play it. It needs to start somewhere.

It's a very typical Apple marketing strategy. They get social media buzzing all Summer about a lack of lossless hardware (Boo! Apple sucks!) and then they get social media buzzing all Fall when the hardware is introduced (Yay, Apple is a hero!).

It's going to be a Lossless Christmas. Headphones, earpods, speakers, in-car systems, wired, wireless.

 

[Expos of 1969]

It's a very typical Apple marketing strategy. They get social media buzzing all Summer about a lack of lossless hardware (Boo! Apple sucks!) and then they get social media buzzing all Fall when the hardware is introduced (Yay, Apple is a hero!).

It's going to be a Lossless Christmas. Headphones, earpods, speakers, in-car systems, wired, wireless.

All that money will be spent on the anticipation of new improved sound quality that the vast majority of those giving Apple yet more money will not be able to hear. What was it that PT Barnum supposedly said...

 

[bilbo--baggins]

6) Lossless turns out to be a gimmick like iTunes LP etc and gets quietly abandoned

Lots of us have imported CDs in Apple Lossless format for years, so can’t see any chance they’ll quietly abandon it. For Apple Music to adopt it was inevitable at some point as storage and download speeds increased.

 

[Madchemic39]

So, Homepod will support Spatial but not Lossless, because for Lossless you need wired connection?

 

[Velli]

I think this “confirmation” is false, it must be based on a misunderstanding. Homepod should support lossless up to 48 kHz, but not hi-res lossless. Redaction coming up.

 

[Velli]

Lots of us have imported CDs in Apple Lossless format for years, so can’t see any chance they’ll quietly abandon it. For Apple Music to adopt it was inevitable at some point as storage and download speeds increased.

As many of us has been saying for years, it’s a passing debate. As data rates go up, the need to compress audio will fade. It’s only a matter of time. Instead of debating the need for lossless, we should debate the need to compress in the first place. 20 years from now, noone cares if audio is compressed or not, from a data rate standpoint. It’s just a matter of when we get the transition to a world where uncompressed is standard, and it seems that transition is picking up now.

When I claimed 25 years ago that the future would be paying for access to music rather than owning it, people thought I was crazy. Yet, here we are… It’s just a matter of aligning when “the future” is.

 

[Tyler Spicer]

The sound quality on the mini is not good enough to make any difference. Mixes already come out without real balance, the main elements are present but the detail in the mix definitely falls to the wayside. I dare say it’s kinda similar for the original homepod too. For casual listening like the homepod is built for, it’s a waste of Apple Music server bandwidth to offer lossless on them. I would’t be able to tell on them and work with 48k files every day!

I’m personally delighted to have lossless as I do have kit capable of playing it, and I love finding those details in a mix that just have a little more definition than on AAC. I genuinely find listening to TIDAL more exciting than Apple Music for that very reason - it’s like seeing the real painting vs a picture on the internet. I never thought lossless would become the standard, but it gives me hope alongside spatial, that music can become more of a source of entertainment again, rather than that noise that goes alongside what you’re watching on TV 📺😉

 

[jmw1480]

The HomePod, which can play some lossless files (but apparently nothing above 44.1/16) have been discontinued.

Although Apple’s no longer trying to sell OG HomePods, if it’s simply being listed as ‘not capable’ just because of this - meaning it’s essentially capable of playing the improved streamed sound but just not the full Hi-Res lossless - then this has been a terribly misleading article and overall press release.

It would certainly help if Apple listed where the bottlenecks are - with BT, AirPlay 2, etc. - as again I’m not yet convinced it’s the devices themselves. My bet is still that HomePod supports up to 16/48 (and perhaps 24/48), due to the Air Play 2 limitation. Still a “less loss” product from Apple Music than is currently available. Not sure about AirPods.

Finally, let’s not forget this will be a *FREE* upgrade to their *STREAMING* service - not just an ability to play what you have in your Home Library - plus the special audio addition to many products. And no doubt there will be more (more capable) products to come.

 

[odedia]

So what does support lossless? Perhaps Macs and iPhones on the built in speakers, but what good is that? I suppose wired headphones with an iPhone. It'd be great if both lossless and Dolby Atmos work with an Airplay 2 receiver with an Atmos speaker setup, but my guess is it won't. What about wired CarPlay?

This is shaping up to be rather underwhelming so far.

Apple TVs connected to HIFI systems. Mac Minis connected to USB DACs. There is really no point of Lossless audio unless you have the right gear for it anyway. Today I'm using Qobuz but I would love to have a single library for all my content.

 

[RamGuy]

Regardless of whether the HomePod supports Apple Lossless (16-bit, 44.1kHz, ALAC) but not Apple Lossless Hi-res (24-bit, 192kHz, ALAC) this entire press release has been a mess.

I don't fully understand why Apple feel the need to announce this at all at this point in time? iOS/iPadOS/tvOS 14.6 and macOS 11.4 has yet to be released which is a requirement for all of this to work. And considering RC of these versions got released yesterday it all might release next week but Dolby Atmos/Spatial Audio and Apple Lossless is still not releasing until June.

Meaning it all requires you to run 14.6 and 11.4 before being able to take advantage of the new features. But it doesn't look like these features will be directly linked to the release of 14.6 and 11.4. Some server-side changes will need to happen in June before it goes live.

So what's the rush? Why not take the time to have all the details ready and perhaps cooperate with some third-parties and provide them with a preview of it all so they can show it to us?


I don't expect Apple Lossless to work with AirPods (regular, Pro or Max) as a result of limitations with Bluetooth. That's common sense at this point in time. But it seems like a bunch of communication is getting confused by the sheer fact that we have so many things going on at once. We have Dolby Atmos/Spatial Audio. We have Apple Lossless. We have Apple Lossless Hi-Res. I suspect things are getting mixed up in the communication.

I have a really hard time seeing any technical limitation for why Apple HomePod and Apple HomePod mini would be incapable of streaming Apple Lossless (not to be confused with Apple Lossless Hi-Res) using AirPlay 2 or by streaming it directly from Apple Music. I can't see any reason why the AirPods Max wouldn't be capable of playing Apple Lossless (not Apple Lossless Hi-Res) using the minijack to Lightning cable.

The reason why the AirPods Max won't be capable of Apple Lossless Hi-Res is most likely due to the transfer going from being digital-to-analogue, then it's going analogue-to-digital on the cable as the AirPods Max only supports digital inputs and then it's going digital-to-analogue on the headphones themselves again. I suspect that the ADC in the cable does not feature support for anything higher than 16-bit, 44.1kHz thus limiting the AirPods Max to "CD-quality" and no "Hi-Res". I can't see any reason why it wouldn't be capable of supporting Apple Lossless. It's only 1411 kbps, there shouldn't be any technical limitations causing the DAC->ADC->DAC transfer to not be able to handle 1411 kbps, 16-bit, 44.1kHz audio.

Unless the ADC in the cable is running some kind of extremely limited ADC and firmware that will only support AAC or stereo PCM and nothing else. If that is the case one has to wonder how Apple didn't think of this with the release of the AirPods Max. But then again, the cable itself is sold separately and could be replaced with a new version adding an updated ADC supporting Apple Lossless. Support for Hi-Res is more difficult as I suspect the DAC within the headphones themselves did never optimise for the use of 24-bit and 192kHz. Heck, CoreAudio within iOS and macOS itself has not been optimised for anything beyond 24-bit, 48kHz. Pushing for anything higher will most likely require fundamental changes to both the operating system and the DAC's Apple is mostly sourcing from Sirrus Logic.

 

[dannys1]

Ok then what’s the point of offering it if none of your speaker products support it in any way?

People own other products you know?

 

[dannys1]

I can already listen to 24bit/192k tracks with the $20 Apple 3.5m headphones, and it blows the $550 Apple headphones out of the water in terms of instrument separation and not missing a single note...

No it doesn't.