I think the Blackberry is best for what it does best and that is email. For the people here that keep saying 2.0 will kill Blackberry, how do you know? You are assuming the will implement the activesync flawlessly. Next is that iPhone 2.0 is only supporting Exchange. There are PLENTY of companies that run Lotus Domino/Notes and even some that use Novell Groupwise. Blackberry supports all of the above. I have an iPhone and prefer it over my Blackberry, but the Blackberry email at this point is great. This is something that Apple will need to work extremely hard on if they want the corporate market. I don't see it dethroning RIM anytime soon in this area though.
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Honestly, do you guys think the Blackberry Bold is 3G iPhone competition?
- Thread starter newyorksole
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That's my opinion. I haven't played with one and I feel none of the videos provide any justice. I'm simply basing my views on my past experiences with blackberries vs. iPhone/Windows Mobile/Symbian, etc.
So bottom line, to answer your d*mbass question - I posted because I felt like it.
What does an operating system not have to do with an application and application development?
Native OSX will prove to be the single greatest advantage to the iPhone in the years to come.
I'm not sure why you think that's unique. Any smartphone with an SDK can run any software that anyone cares to write for it.
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So why the need for Java etc.?
My point is that iPhone is running a proper OS, while BBs and the like aren't. Thus they have to have plug-ins like Java to be able to do anything. iPhone is different.
There's often a need for Java on business devices, because there are
1) many corporate programs written in Java
2) literally millions more programmers available than for OSX
3) programs can be made to work cross-devices
Very, very few places are going to retrain/revamp for iPhone OSX development. It's the same as the desktop arena.
I've been programming handhelds for over ten years, and "really proper" embedded OS's for thirty years. I still don't get what you think is "different".
RIM and WM are full OS's as well... with greater support for copy/paste, Bluetooth, file security, multitasking, etc than the portable version of OSX currently has. iPhone OSX is still playing catchup, since its initial emphasis was on glitz instead of functionality. But it'll get there eventually.
You can program without Java on WM devices. Visual Studio is a pretty nice environment for C, C#, or whatever.
Still, many / most smartphones currently come with Java and Flash support available. Shortly, Silverlight will be added to that mix. It's not an ideal situation, but it is what it is in real life.
For me the kicker is the soft keyboard on the iPhone. While I don't have an iPhone I do have an iPod touch so I have some experience with the soft keyboard and I will suffer Windows Mobile if it means that I get an actual hard keyboard. The second Apple puts out a phone with a hard keyboard I'll be all over it. Til then I'm sooooo diggin' this new blackberry.
Be interesting to see. I think Apple commented (during one of their financial results sessions) that 1/3 of Fortune 500 (and 400+ higher education institutes) had contacted Apple in regards to the SDK. Only time will tell as to what comes from that, but that's more interest from the bigger guys than I expected.
IMO, what's "different" is the third-party interest in coding for the iPhone/iPod touch.
Considering that nobody wanted to program those stupid iPhone "web apps", I think it's fairly amazing that there are 1,623 of them currently listed over at http://www.apple.com/webapps
Not bad for a platform that's only been out for 10 months.
Again, who knows how many of them are going to sit down and figure out the SDK, but with the SDK having been downloaded over 100,000 times and the developers conference having sold out for the first time ever, there does appear to be a fair amount of interest in development for the iPhone.
And for $279, it better well be.
IT folk, engineers, and even casual users, often fill out contact forms for more information and simply include who they work for. Doesn't mean there's an official interest or that it'll pan out even if it was.
How many of those do you use? I use the weather underground site, that's about it. Oh and Fandango. Mostly I use mobile versions of USAToday, etc.
Oh man, don't get me started on how bogus that number is.
Apple sticks a link to their SDK practically on their front page, and counts up any attempted download, even if it's just a user thinking it's an upgrade. Now that I can agree with, because I was going to do so too. Seems like a nice quick way of turning a dollar, what with the store and all. Alas, as with so many other developers, I haven't gotten "accepted" into the beta yet. I suspect a lot are losing interest and turning to other platforms.
For me, the number of iPhone webapps that I use on a regular basis is more than the number of BB/WM apps that I've installed and kept over the last few years.
The thing about that link is that it's inactive until you login as an Apple iPhone developer. I don't see how a regular person could stumble through that detailed developer sign-up process accidentally, thinking that they're getting an upgrade to their iPhone.Oh man, don't get me started on how bogus that number is.
From the number of iPhone SDK questions that pop-up here on MacRumors, it appears that people have figured out that regardless of their beta "acceptance" status, their SDK still works fine. Nothing's stopping them from coding and testing their projects.
Are you trying to sell me on cross-device programs that were either written as a one-size-fits-all implementation or worse for another phone entirely?
Cross-OS programming (Java) is great great from a programmers perspective and when all the devices are very similar. But iPhone's interface is significantly different than a normal phone's interface. The SDK event has shown that people can make some pretty intuitive software in a relatively short amount of time.
Apple is right in not allowing Java, just moving your application over to an iPhone would not only be clumsy based on interface differences, it would look completely out of place and behave in ways which contrast with the iPhone UI goals.
I'm due for a work BlackBerry upgrade, so I'm getting one of each regardless. It'll be nice when we migrate from Notes to Exchange so I won't have to use a BB to get work email. Just glad I didn't jump on the Curve when Verizon got it earlier this month!
The thing about that link is that it's inactive until you login as an Apple iPhone developer. I don't see how a regular person could stumble through that detailed developer sign-up process accidentally, thinking that they're getting an upgrade to their iPhone.
And I'm surprised that you underestimate so badly just what iPhone fans will do when they think they can get something cool for free.
It was much commented about on the Apple forum (and others) at the time. Many people signed up to download what they thought was either an upgrade or an easy way for anyone to write apps. Many others didn't realize they needed an Apple host system.
Those of us who were long time registered developers were not happy that the download system was clogged up by people who had no need for the SDK, which normally would be only visible in the developer section.
Numberwise, the Android SDK passed 750,000 downloads several months ago. Does that mean it'll have seven times as many apps? Who knows.
As for wanting a key before starting dev, some apps can't be tested until they're on an actual device. It's nice to know you'll actually be getting one.
Cheers.
I'm not trying to sell you on anything. I'm explaining why having mobile OSX isn't an advantage if Apple wants into the business sector, and why I think that not having Java is a business liability.
My experience is quite the opposite. I have a UI library that lets me write apps that look and work well on anything from a touchless smartphone with a thin screen to a touchscreen based, wider device. Kinetic fingertip scrolling and all. It's not rocket science, of course.
As for the iPhone UI being significantly different... I suppose if your only history is with commercial phones, you're right. But from the viewpoint of those of us who've done custom app interfaces for decades, the iPhone UI is not very different at all. It's actually pretty simple. Which is its whole point, after all.
the majority of Iphone users won't want to sacrifice their UI for what is essentially just a beefed up blackberry.
A Java port of a touch application, while simple (programming-wise) and functional (UI-wise), wouldn't take advantage of anything the iPhone SDK takes to low level processes. Again, it would work but it would be kludgy.
I get the feeling that you disprove of the way Apple handled third-party development (and the iPhone in general), including the absence of Java. The only real theme I see since you joined in June 2007, is that you feel that Apple left you out. Otherwise, your posting seems out of place for someone with 30 years device experience who could be working on any number of other handheld device apps instead of talking about what the iPhone doesn't do... I'm not trying to be rude or pigeonhole you, that's just the feeling I get reading your past posts.
There're good indicators that Apple planned an SDK from the beginning. There's too much that happened from the time Jobs said "web based only" to the SDK announcement in October and the event in March. I think his web-only speech at WWDC was intentional (and deceitful in typical Jobs' fashion); Apple pushing web apps created a web movement which included many of the big names on the internet tailoring a version of their sites to the iPhone. The iPhone now has a very mainstream foundation of iPhone-coded sites. It has branded itself and rooted deeper into the internet than most devices, including ones that support Java.
This person speaks the truth!
I don't think Apple can take away from Blackberry as being the undisputed king of the corporate world, the Blackberry is extremely good at it's job, and well priced (both in terms of hardware costs and contracts).
The iPhone is undoubtedly a better all rounder though, and for a personal device/casual business user is easily the one to go for.
Blackberry are Toast:
It is like the Psion organiser. It was popular but then palm came out and you just knew the writing was on the wall for Psion. I think they became symbian and just sold software.
It is like the Psion organiser. It was popular but then palm came out and you just knew the writing was on the wall for Psion. I think they became symbian and just sold software.
Blackberry are Toast:
It is like the Psion organiser. It was popular but then palm came out and you just knew the writing was on the wall for Psion. I think they became symbian and just sold software.
That made me laugh
But, just to echo the sentiments of many, I don't see the iPhone totally taking over the corporate world in the immediate future. It may one day, but Blackberry's are the pretty well-established as the Enterprise smart phone of choice. Big companies can get them at a fairly low cost and distribute them amongst their employees. I think the cost of an iPhone is going to be a prohibitive factor for a lot of companies to make the switch. Also, there is no one happier to maintain the status quo than the vast majority of the corporate world. Jumping from a $100-$200 or less Blackberry to an iPhone that is double or triple the cost is not a move I see many companies making unless the iPhone 2.0 software proves to be a major benefit outweighing any potential costs.
I can see the iPhone being the Enterprise phone of the future, I'm just not sure that, with the exception of a select few companies, its going to be within the next few years.
There is this mystique about the "enterprise sector" which RIM seem to be trying to generate and to hold onto.
The Blackberry can get email and can sync with your outlook calendar.
iphone 2.0 will be able to do that and more.
The Blackberry can get email and can sync with your outlook calendar.
iphone 2.0 will be able to do that and more.
It does a lot more than that. It syncs email, calendar, address book, tasks, notes, all wireless. Companies can easily write their own software for it and distribute it internally, and it simply cost substantially less to purchase and operate.
I think a lot of people are missing the point that just because - at least in theory - the iPhone 2 might be able to do more than the Bold (which, given RIM's investment in application devevlopment is a pretty ropey premise) that this will be important to businesses who are really only interested in a device that lets their managers talk, text, sync, read e-mails and view/amend office documents.
Cost is going to be the real drive here and since a lot of companies have embedded costs for Blackberry usage I can't see where the iPhone's market is going to come from.
Cost is going to be the real drive here and since a lot of companies have embedded costs for Blackberry usage I can't see where the iPhone's market is going to come from.