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Oh well, I'm wrong, I'm sure Blackberry will go from strength to strength.

To be honest I don't care about Blackberry either way. I just know I'll never own one.
 
I haven't posted in here a while. But I just think going from a screen that takes up the majority of the phone, to a phone with half screen half keyboard is a downgrade. I do think the BB Bold is nice, but I just couldn't see myself with it, unless there was no iPhone. BUT there is an iPhone, so no BB for me lol. No phone currently out or RUMORED to come out, is making me 2nd guess the iPhone.
 
Like one poster said, Blackberry is for business people and Iphone is mostly for regualr people. I'm stunk between both. I use my Blackberry during the weekday. Comes 5PM Friday evening, SIM card out, back to my iphone for the weekend.
 
Like one poster said, Blackberry is for business people and Iphone is mostly for regualr people. I'm stunk between both. I use my Blackberry during the weekday. Comes 5PM Friday evening, SIM card out, back to my iphone for the weekend.

Yup, that was me!

As of firmware 2.0, there are Enterprise features so your iPhone could soon be replacing your BlackBerry, too!
 
Like one poster said, Blackberry is for business people and Iphone is mostly for regualr people. I'm stunk between both. I use my Blackberry during the weekday. Comes 5PM Friday evening, SIM card out, back to my iphone for the weekend.

This may have been true in July 07, but not as true in July 08.
And I agree with the posters who feel the new BB is a downgrade from the iPhone. (as is any phone IMHO)
 
The apps are speculation until we see what is actually produced. The iPhone 2.0 will sell more in the consumer market, the BB more in the corporate.

These apps are not speculation. They already exist. If you did your research while you were away (lol) you would know that. They just aren't available to the general public yet.
Another thing that all you RIP er I mean RIM lovers forget is that RIM represents corporate and iPhone represents rebel.
Employees love going into the rebel mode to show there boring old managers that they still can assert their freedom to choose a better product.
The times they are a changing and RIM is old guard and the iPhone is fresh, innovative and just plain more fun.
 
Employees love going into the rebel mode to show there boring old managers that they still can assert their freedom to choose a better product.
In SOHOs, perhaps, but "rebel mode" doesn't fly in corporate environments. Not one bit. Chose any rebel phone where I work and you will get zero connectivity to the email system, zero discount on your device, and zero monthly reimbursement for your bill.

The times they are a changing and RIM is old guard and the iPhone is fresh, innovative and just plain more fun.
It's neat to see RIM trying to add more "just plain fun" to their Enterprise-ready devices as the same time Apple's going about adding more "Enterprise" to their already "just plain fun" devices.

As someone else said, everyone wins from this.

Personally, I don't see Apple knocking RIM out of the #1 spot. I think the iPhone will do to RIM exactly what OS X is doing to Microsoft, ... slowly displacing marketplace in environments where it makes sense, but nowhere near knocking out out of the #1 spot.
 
It's neat to see RIM trying to add more "just plain fun" to their Enterprise-ready devices as the same time Apple's going about adding more "Enterprise" to their already "just plain fun" devices.

As someone else said, everyone wins from this.

Ding ding ding.
 
I don't see a great future for RIM either. I own a BB8800 and an 8310. Switched 4 months ago to the iPhone. It took about 15 minutes for me to type pretty well on the iPhone. And after 3 days, I can type pretty well on it.

There is a lot more subconscious work that goes on with typing on a BlackBerry vs. the iPhone. For starters your finger feels more keys than the one you actually want to press. So you have to make a conscious effort to apply force just for the one key you do want to press. Sometimes you press two keys and have to correct it. But the reality is, you have to feel the keys, focus your pressure on the one correct key, etc.

On the iPhone, you are just tapping the surface and then moving on. There is no need for pressure. Which is why no one who can type on the iPhone is typing at half the speed of the BlackBerry. I can type with one finger, not two, about 2/3rds of speed I had with two thumbs on the BlackBerry. And for those who type with two thumbs on the iPhone, they are often faster with the iPhone than with the BlackBerry.

The BlackBerry requires the use of the Option Key for menu choices as well. Get a call on the iPhone and you know what choices you have because they are in your face. The floating choices are right there. On the BlackBerry, you have to do an option stroke to find the choices, and scroll to the appropriate one. I can't speak for all BlackBerry owners, but when my phone is ringing, I don't have time to press an option button and use a scroll-ball. I need the choice to be right there and waiting for me. I'm kind of in a rush you know? The phone is ringing after all.

They love to talk about their so-called great security. Did you guys read about the Indian Government getting access to the Crypto keys from RIM?

http://www.blackberryforums.com/gen...n-may-hand-crypto-keys-indian-government.html

I raised this subject on the BlackBerry forum. 1 person replied. Just one. No one wants to deal with this reality that even though the email is encrypted at the source, aka the BES on your own network, and is not de-crypted until it reaches it's destination which is beyond the NOC at RIM's Network Operations Center, doesn't mean it can't be accessed. RIM has the crypto-keys. And because your email flows through their NOC, they can crack it and show it to anyone who asks.

Right now, the Indian Government has been given the Crypto-keys for the India traffic. They can read any email they want in their country. And quite obviously that data can be stolen from the government, or miss used. The fact that they have the crypto-keys renders them useless. And the fact that you have no say in "IF" you use the NOC is the problem. All BlackBerry mail goes through their NOC. All of it!

At least with ActiveSync, your email goes from your Exchange server to your iPhone. There is no central NOC that can be tapped into or bugged.

More secure huh... What a joke.

Lastly, as I always say, it's about the software. The software I saw at the March 6th event are a full generation ahead of anything on the BlackBerry. That SalesForce.com app is all business. To say that the iPhone is not a business tool is ludicrous. I am a business user. And in my opinion, the iPhone is by far the better business tool. The software is far better. That's the reason. It's faster. Get on a sales call. You'll find it's harder to think when you are on the phone trying to answer questions. That's why people prepare to make a call. They get all the info they need right in front of them so they don't have to go looking for it while on an important call. Do you want a phone that has you looking for options in sub menus while you are on the phone? Or would rather have a phone that has choices in your face, and readily available based on the context of the application? I vote for choice #2 and I bet when business users see and use this phone, they too will see how much better a tool it is than a RIM BlackBerry. It's the Fanboys, yes I said it, the FANBOYS that are making noise about the RIM being the better business tool. They are likely idiots techs who love gadgets and have never made a sales call in their lives. Never had to see a PDF or a graphic and decide if they want 100,000 of those printed. If they had, they'd want clarity in the phone so they could make those choices.

I do design, sales, and technical things all day. You can send me a PDF of an Amaray cover, those covers you see on all those DVD cases you buy in the store, over the iPhone. And I can see the PDF perfectly and make print decisions without a computer. On the BlackBerry, some PDFs don't even render right at all. Those that are mostly text sometimes just show up as pure text without the formatting of the PDF. And so they have 3rd part apps like RepliGo that try to fix the problem for a yearly subscription fee. They don't hold a candle what the iPhone does right out of the box.

You have to buy 3rd party software to see basic images and html in the email. Yeah, they are fixing that right now. But right now, the iphone's email is perfect. I see JPEGs and PDFs in my email. It's much more like my Mac client software than mobile software. And that's the difference.

I've used the BlackBerry as a business tool for a solid year. I have used ToDo Matrix from RexWireless for ToDos which is the BB's best app I think. And I have used Ascendo DataVault as my mini DataBase app. They have a few good apps. But stock tracking is awful. Just the little stock gadget on the iPhone is better. And the flood of apps we're going to see in June are going to re-write the book on what a quality mobile application truly means.

I don't see that BB9000 or any BB phone besting even the current gen iPhone. Come on, it's like comparing a DOS PC to a Mac. BLackBerry is old news. You just don't see it right now because you don't visualize all the apps on the horizon. Look at that Spore game for example. Yeah it's a game, but it shows how much more advanced this phone is. You are not going to see that kind of complexity on the BlackBerry.

All the BB does well is non-rendered text email and security, supposedly. But even the email in my humble opinion is not nearly as good as the iPhone. I see email the way it should be seen on my device. They do not. End of story.

Alex Alexzander
 
A friend of mine is a RIM employee and is "dog-fooding" as his personal handset and I tried out the Blackberry Bold (or at least a test model). I only had it for 5 mins but in short, it won't make an iPhone user to switch but its nice enough to stop Blackberry users from potentially switching.

The overall handset feel is very solid and has a nice upscale feel to it. Screen feels really small on it. The UI has been slicked up with modern icons but navigation still feels the same as Blackberry ... the ball is definitely not as fluid as an iPhone. I had a chance to see the web-browsing which is more iPhone like ... the webpage formating is pretty decent and you can do iPhone style zooms where you click on a specific area and it'll zoom in to that area (no cool animations though). For some reason, we clicked some links and didn't work that well on some so it's still spotty.

That's all I time to do on it...
 
In SOHOs, perhaps, but "rebel mode" doesn't fly in corporate environments. Not one bit. Chose any rebel phone where I work and you will get zero connectivity to the email system, zero discount on your device, and zero monthly reimbursement for your bill.


It's neat to see RIM trying to add more "just plain fun" to their Enterprise-ready devices as the same time Apple's going about adding more "Enterprise" to their already "just plain fun" devices.

As someone else said, everyone wins from this.
I feel sorry for anyone who has to work in that type of environment, but I do agree that RIM playing catch up is good for everyone.
 
My understanding is that the "Bold" is just the next version of the "Curve" and the "Thunder" is the real iPhone competitor.

As long as RIM sticks with a version of the current operating system, with the basic 4 button + trackball or finger touch, it will be overly complicated and not as easily navigated as an iPhone.

I'd be willing to bet any touch-based device they make would essentially be exactly the same as their current device with the exception of an added touch screen.

I honestly don't think they truly grasp what Apple actually brings to the table. I think they believe they have a better operating system, and they clear don't.

They are really no different from anyone else. Microsoft believes in Windows Mobile, RIM believes in their OS, and Palm believed in their OS. In each case they'd all be better off if they first admitted that their operating systems do not match or beat the capabilities of Apple's iPhone. The next step would be to design something that does. But they won't. They are too lazy.

We've seen this before. A company will die before it admits it needs to make massive and fundamental changes. Only Apple has shown this willingness to stop, reevaluate and change course. And it is deeply to their credit. Those unwilling to match that level of commitment will not survive this on their own merit.

Alex Alexzander
 
These apps are not speculation. They already exist. If you did your research while you were away (lol) you would know that.

If you did yours then you would have noticed that I found that RIM already has apps for the BB.

On sale. For units that exist as opposed to ones that haven't even had their spec list released yet.

Employees love going into the rebel mode to show there boring old managers that they still can assert their freedom to choose a better product.
The times they are a changing and RIM is old guard and the iPhone is fresh, innovative and just plain more fun.

Well that's sweet, kid, but it's purchasing and It departments that make the decisions and they tend to make them on price and business functionality.

Come back when you've grown up a bit and know what you're talking about, k?
 
Haha. this is to funny. i go on BB forums and iPhone forums and they all say the same thing. Do you realise that you are complaining that the BB is not exactly the same an iPhone and vice-versa. All the changes everyone suggesting would do just that, make and iPhone a BB and a BB an iPhone. Two different products for two different markets. when you choose a market segment you purposely alienate all other segments. No one device will appease all. So you can't say one is better because it does not have the things you want, that just makes it better for YOU not all.
unless its size could change from a pearl to and iPhone with an iPhone touch screen that could change to a real keyboard for whoever wanted and be the price the razr 1 i now...not happening ever.
Lets all be happy that we have competition to push companies to better and better products and we can all buy what we each individually want.
 
Don't kid yourself. Apple's got just as much catch up to do with the iPhone before it has even 50% of the management features that RIM devices have had for years.

I doubt those specific management features will hold back sales the way lack of a great interface is about to hold back sales of RIM.

Alex
 
I doubt those specific management features will hold back sales the way lack of a great interface is about to hold back sales of RIM.
It absolutely will in the enterprise and government markets, which is what adding Exchange Activesync and remote wipe to the iPhone is all about, no? Those features are worthless to the majority of the consumer market.
 
It absolutely will in the enterprise and government markets, which is what adding Exchange Activesync and remote wipe to the iPhone is all about, no? Those features are worthless to the majority of the consumer market.

As you said, Apple addressed Push email with ActiveSync and support for Exchange. They took several steps forward for the enterprise already to be released in 2.0. So that aside (because it's been addressed already) RIM frankly has more to lose in the enterprise. It's been reported 1/3rd of fortune 500 companies are signed up for the trials in their enterprise. Pretty amazing and speaks to just how much users, even in the enterprise, want the iPhone. What market stands to lose more? RIM in Consumer? Yes. RIM in the enterprise? Yes, considering Apple has no where to go but up in the enterprise I don't see RIM in a good position at all.

So let's go back to the specific management features you think will hold Apple back? What would those be that are left to address that are so important that Enterprise will not be interested in the iPhone.

Love to hear this. So reply soon.

Best,

Alex
 
So let's go back to the specific management features you think will hold Apple back? What would those be that are left to address that are so important that Enterprise will not be interested in the iPhone.
I didn't say Enterprises wouldn't be interested in the iPhone. I said that Apple has a lot of catchup to do in order to equal a RIM device's manageability, just as RIM has a lot of catchup to do in order to equal iPhone's UI.

One of the first management features missing from the iPhone that comes to mind is financial companies legal requirement to audit all SMS and instant messenger conversations (a result of insider trading). How do you do that on an iPhone?

I've also seen other large companies issue BlackBerrys with the phone feature disabled. Wireless PDAs, in essence. How do you do that on an iPhone?

How do you disable bluetooth features on an iPhone that would allow an employee soon to leave the company from syncing the address book to his personal computer?

How do you enforce that all emails leaving the iPhone are encrypted?

How does a company enforce a mandatory password policy on an iPhone?
 

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