But that's like saying that RIM has no ordinary consumer market to lose --- because they never targetted the average joe until a year ago.
That's why RIM stock price hasn't tanked.
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Honestly, do you guys think the Blackberry Bold is 3G iPhone competition?
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But that's like saying that RIM has no ordinary consumer market to lose --- because they never targetted the average joe until a year ago.
That's why RIM stock price hasn't tanked.
Which would be an issue if most of the intended user base didn't already use BBs and require little, if any, training. Even for new starts training costs are minimal - when I got mine the IT support guy showed me how it worked in five minutes.
Complicated it isn't and these examples don't detract from the fact that the iPhone is almost certainly going to much more expensive than a BB.
Well, yes, but most purchasing departments will contact a new player to see what their proposition is. This statistic means nothing in itself.
Perhaps. Most N95 users I know have a few apps on their phone - MSN, Gmail, Google Maps, Mobile Weather, Sports tracker, N-gage and Fring are pretty popular.
But the number of google searches doesn't mean that they are using the iphone as a smartphone.
For people who claim to know things you disappoint me. RIM has stated many times 37% of their customer base is consumer.
RIM has both consumer and enterprise marketshare to lose.
Clear enough for you, or shall I try harder to explain this?
Best,
Alex
Using a phone as a browser is not using a smartphone capability? You might wish to rethink that statement.
Alex
Which most of them are brand new customers within the last 12 months.
It doesn't need much to move the needle for the Blackberry because they only have something like 10-12 million enterprise customers.
Next they will tell us that Using the iPhone as a phone doesn't count as a using a phone at all... LOL
Alex
I don't think that's true. RIM has been running at 2:1 Corporate:Individual for some time now although that's shifted to 1:1 for last quarter's sales.
Actually the OS's adding third party apps fastest is RIM and Symbian
http://tamswms.tamoggemon.com/2008/03/11/the-handango-yardstick-2007/
The developers would not write these apps if no-one bought them.
I think it is worth pointing out that those browser stats have a lot more to do with the bundled unlimited data packages than the actual experience which admittedly is better than any other mobile browser.
So what. Palm still has more software than RIM does. RIM is merely playing catch up because they only recently opened up the platform. So almost anything will show as a rapid increase in development. The same is going to be true for the iPhone. So let's take this exact graph and look at it again in 6 months. How much money will you bet me that Apple's iPhone blows past RIM in the very chart.
Alex
The point is that Symbian phones are used as smartphones, and devices like the Nokia E71 will continue to promote it in that role.
The point is, all your talk of meaningless stats, this is the lamest stat of all. I'll give you an example. I start Alex's SmartPhone USA Lmtd. tomorrow. On Tuesday I find out 5 developers are writing 5 new apps from 5 third-party apps. I get to create a chart and show that I have increased my developers supporting my device 500% in a single day. Then I find out that RIM has not had an increase in its developer count of 500% from Monday(tomorrow) to Tuesday. So I guess I must be beating RIM like crazy. I mean come on. I have much more new developer interest in my smart phone then they do. Just look at the chart.
The logic in here amazes me. What can I say. Wow.
If Symbian based phones are being used as smart phones, then they are smart phones You are what you do, not what you label yourself.
Since you guys like posting outside opinions as fact, here is one for you.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone
Alex
Can I ask why we're talking about relative percentages when these figures seem to refer to absolute number of apps available?
Also, this is quite interesting:
I think these figures are US only and seem to indicate there is a substantial appetite for BB software.
Also, this is quite interesting:
I think these figures are US only and seem to indicate there is a substantial appetite for BB software.
I never said it was meaningful. You have me confused with others. My argument has been perfectly focused throughout every bit of this. I said Mac vs. PC marketshare was not relevant and does not factor or compare well with the discussion of RIM vs. Apple. Remember that Archie? Go back and see for yourself.
Alex
Actually this chart supports what I said about Palm.
LOL.
Alex
I think he just thought my initial comment was a bit too technical and opaque (which is true).
Thank you.
I wrote "Please explain" because I didn't want to put words in your mouth. I had started to write a long reply when I realized that I might be assuming too much about your position... so I backed off and asked for clarification.
With a five year old yanking at my arm. So it was a really short request
Wow, I can't believe the activity on this thread while I was away at work.
There is nothing I can add to the arguments presented by sfoalex.
No one else posting here is even close to the deep and clear arguments he presents.
But I will post two thoughts supporting the Apple argument.
1) Who cares what an IT department head thinks, when the CEO or board decides they like the iPhone (as many of the big players in California are)
then IT will get on board or they will be overboard.
2) When Apple gets you in their sights (RIM, AVID, DIGIDESIGN)
you had better be worried. With their massive cash and developer resources, their plastic, turn on a dime business model and the business genius of the board, well, the poor target is in big trouble.
There is nothing I can add to the arguments presented by sfoalex.
No one else posting here is even close to the deep and clear arguments he presents.
But I will post two thoughts supporting the Apple argument.
1) Who cares what an IT department head thinks, when the CEO or board decides they like the iPhone (as many of the big players in California are)
then IT will get on board or they will be overboard.
2) When Apple gets you in their sights (RIM, AVID, DIGIDESIGN)
you had better be worried. With their massive cash and developer resources, their plastic, turn on a dime business model and the business genius of the board, well, the poor target is in big trouble.
Which big players in California would you be referring to, out of curiosity, that run their companies like that?
Depends on if it's a sliding keyboard that doesn't take up frontal real estate. (I'm still fond of the keyboard on the Samsung i-730 that slides open downward.)
I don't disagree.
I think it depends on how often (and where) the keyboard is being used. For example, in corporate and military field apps, hardware keys are often preferred.
This is pure nonsense.
Anyway, I think RIM spot at the top of the corporate market foodchain is quite secure. I don't believe for a second Apple wants to overtake RIM in much the same way I don't believe they want to overtake MS. I think they just want a piece of the action, and the pie is certainly big enough to the support that.
On the flip side, I think RIM is probably thinking the same towards the consumer market. They're not looking to overtake anyone, just grab a big enough piece to keep growing steams of revenue. BlackBerrys will never be a hugely popular consumer platform. The data packages alone as they're currently priced limits their appeal (most folks aren't going to tack on $30-$45 a month, and that's before they've added an SMS package. Most folks look at them as overkill, which is why the iPhone has been so appealing. Just enough "smart" features, but mostly entertainment.
People insisting Apple will signal the death knell for RIM in the corporate market just aren't very familiar with that market. The government, for instance, would never switch from BB's to iPHones. Never.
Saw the new Blackberry commercial last night on NBC.
Wow are they bad.
RIM can't possibly compete with a titan like Apple.
Not in marketing or R+D.
It's really not up to RIM, as they seem to be mired in old thought and copycat R+D.
It's really what the Apple management team decides. If they want to get you (and I agree they don't want the whole RIM market TODAY) then you have problems.
Ask the average Joe on the street who Apple is, then ask them who RIM is.
Nuff said.
Wow are they bad.
RIM can't possibly compete with a titan like Apple.
Not in marketing or R+D.
It's really not up to RIM, as they seem to be mired in old thought and copycat R+D.
It's really what the Apple management team decides. If they want to get you (and I agree they don't want the whole RIM market TODAY) then you have problems.
Ask the average Joe on the street who Apple is, then ask them who RIM is.
Nuff said.
Alas, the real world doesn't work in such a fantasy manner. Boards could care less, and CEOs don't decide these things. CIOs might, but even they will bend to any security concerns (real or imagined) that the IT department comes up with.
After so many accidental releases of personal data, companies are deep in CYA mode these days. And that means nobody takes chances. Plus the economic situation means there had better be a good ROI.
For corporations to change devices, what will have to happen is for a major company (or several) to move to the iPhone and then post metrics showing how much money and effort they saved by doing so.
Since when does the average Joe in the street make corporate purchase decisions?