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ybakos said:
(BTW, do any of you also hear a static-like noise from the right-hand area of the keyboard? It's most noticeable when you hold down an arrow key to scroll a long web page, but it's always there. Louder when the graphics system is drawing to the screen.)

I also mentioned the static-like noise and the "light saber" phenomenon when you rotate the powerbook (try it).

Ya i do hear the static noise. I'd hardly conciser it a problem though, it seems very minor. It just sounds like a natural computer noise to me. I don't know what you mean by the "light saber" noise though. Which direction do you rotate it to hear that noise?

edit: hang in there mizzi!!
 
Actually, it's from the film Cool Hand Luke.



Btw "What we have here is a failure to communicate" is a direct quote out of Civil War by Guns N' Roses. (/usless piece of information :p )[/QUOTE]
 
mizzi...

will you be running your powerbook with am external monitor?


just wondering, as i'm a designer that does photography as well, and I just got my powerbook about 30 minutes ago... I see the lines... I hope apple acknowledges it, as it is obviously a defect.. but It's not that bad on mine... plus, for the majority of my heavy work, i'm on an external monitor anyway. I was going through some of my photos, and It barely affects me on those.

although i do see them when working with scanlines, it doesn't exactly make them smooth out, i can still see them no matter how i scroll the ESPN page.

That said, mine seem much lighter than the ones i saw in the store.

I also really need this powerbook for my work, and the 17 is just too big for me. It has no dead pixels which i consider a blessing coming from apple these days, so i can't see myself sending it back. Hopefully there is a fix announced or a recall. we'll see. but i don't think it will sour the deal too much for you.

hope this is helpful,

david
(technocoy)
 
Oh dear

So yes, I agree that the line problem is unacceptable, and the flawed quality of finish. Both things you would not expect or accept from any top end product in life. The biggest problem of all though...

I have fallen in love with my new toy. It is very, very cool. It would suck no end to have to send it back now and wait months for a new one. Hmmm, what to do.

I know in the UK you can send it back before 14 days, does anyone know if this is the final limit for sending back for a refund, or is it 30 days. Cheers
 
ybakos said:
(BTW, do any of you also hear a static-like noise from the right-hand area of the keyboard? It's most noticeable when you hold down an arrow key to scroll a long web page, but it's always there. Louder when the graphics system is drawing to the screen.)

If you haven't already installed the dev tools then do so. After you install that you will have a 'processor' entry in system prefs. Go into and uncheck the box that says 'Allow NAP'. The sound goes away.

I reported this as a bug when Tiger first came out and the noise was fixed in 10.4.1 or 10.4.2 (can't remember which). Then it came back with 10.4.3.
 
Until a few months ago I had never sent back any Apple products and I have bought one hell of a lot of them. In the last two months alone I have returned for full refunds the following brand new things...

1) iPod Nano (scratching was unacceptable to me).
2) 15" PowerBook (horizontal line problem).
3) 20" iMac (noisey fan).
4) 20" iMac (dead pixels).

Yup, quality is dropping. If quality hadn't been a problem on any of these things I bought then I would have spent over £4000 in the last 2 months. As it is I've spent £0 and now don't plan on buying any Apple products as they are released... whenever something comes out I'll wait at least a month so that I can check how others get on with the products.
 
Noise (sorry, thread)

Re: the light saber sound, rotate it right over left or gently spin it in a random fashion. The noise is caused by the torque on whatever is spinning -- probably not the hard drive, may be the internal fan.

Maverick808, I have tried turning off napping per the Developer Tools (I replied that it didn't work for my machine in that thread). Thanks though.

I just wonder if others have this problem?
 
I got my replacement Powerbook back (serial W8540).

The horizontal lines are there, but seem to be much fainter on this one that my W8542 Powerbook. I used SuperCal (found at http://www.bergdesign.com/supercal/) to calibrate my screen-after doing this, the lines issue is now at a tolerable "can't see them until my nose is nearly touching the screen" level. The refresh rate is also no longer a problem on my new toy-everything seems to be at the 60 hz one would expect of an LCD.
 
Hi Wildcard. So you got an earlier replacement...

How did you determine the refresh rate? Using the software mentioned in the Apple discussion thread?

Do you now not observe the cranky cat interference/banding issues in the orange panels?

I'd love to compare your new PB with your old one (or with mine) and see if there is really a difference now or whether it is all perceptual...

wildcard said:
I got my replacement Powerbook back (serial W8540).

The horizontal lines are there, but seem to be much fainter on this one that my W8542 Powerbook. I used SuperCal (found at http://www.bergdesign.com/supercal/) to calibrate my screen-after doing this, the lines issue is now at a tolerable "can't see them until my nose is nearly touching the screen" level. The refresh rate is also no longer a problem on my new toy-everything seems to be at the 60 hz one would expect of an LCD.
 
Spectrum said:
Hi Wildcard. So you got an earlier replacement...

How did you determine the refresh rate? Using the software mentioned in the Apple discussion thread?

Do you now not observe the cranky cat interference/banding issues in the orange panels?

I'd love to compare your new PB with your old one (or with mine) and see if there is really a difference now or whether it is all perceptual...

The refresh rate was done by me unscientifically looking at the screen for more than 5 minutes with no ill effects :) All my symptoms corresponded with physical reactions to a low refresh rate, which was borne out by playing with DisplayConfigX on the old laptop. I haven't tested it with the new one, but the difference in the screens is definitely noticable.

Re: Crankycat-haven't tested with the web-based file, but the preview exhibits the same odd banding issues as my old one did after reinstalling the OS.

I also would recommend using SuperCal to twiddle your monitor-I noticed a difference after using this tool. The lines did not show on static JPG files to a noticable degree for me, as they did on the old screen.
 
wildcard said:
The refresh rate was done by me unscientifically looking at the screen for more than 5 minutes with no ill effects :) All my symptoms corresponded with physical reactions to a low refresh rate, which was borne out by playing with DisplayConfigX on the old laptop. I haven't tested it with the new one, but the difference in the screens is definitely noticable.

Re: Crankycat-haven't tested with the web-based file, but the preview exhibits the same odd banding issues as my old one did after reinstalling the OS.

I also would recommend using SuperCal to twiddle your monitor-I noticed a difference after using this tool. The lines did not show on static JPG files to a noticable degree for me, as they did on the old screen.

I wonder if they're just loading a new driver. The low refresh rate sickness was really prominent when I went and looked at the new books in the shop a few weeks back.

What to do, what to do.. The decision is driving me *fnutz*.
 
Hmm.. I just used that tool, and now all my black are so black I can see almost no detail in shadows! I screwed up somewhere. What I found was that in the early calibrations for the primary colours, I could move the sliders all the way to the bottom and yet still make out the central brighter square. was this your finding too?

I wonder if it depended on which profile you had applied (mine was a custom 1.8) at the time of doing the calibration?

Also, in the last step, gamma of 2.6 seemed most comfortable, so maybe that is the problem - it seems awefully high. Maybe too contrasty.

On this blacks issue - have you noticed that the PB display has a hard time differentiating between different shades of black? It seems as if there is a big jump between pure black and the next shade of grey...

wildcard said:
The refresh rate was done by me unscientifically looking at the screen for more than 5 minutes with no ill effects :) All my symptoms corresponded with physical reactions to a low refresh rate, which was borne out by playing with DisplayConfigX on the old laptop. I haven't tested it with the new one, but the difference in the screens is definitely noticable.

Re: Crankycat-haven't tested with the web-based file, but the preview exhibits the same odd banding issues as my old one did after reinstalling the OS.

I also would recommend using SuperCal to twiddle your monitor-I noticed a difference after using this tool. The lines did not show on static JPG files to a noticable degree for me, as they did on the old screen.
 
When you get a chance please tell about the refresh rate. If this is now fixed, it sems like there is atleast a partial fix. I seem to remember not being able to download DisplayConfigX. Do you have the link again - thanks :)

wildcard said:
I haven't tested it with the new one, but the difference in the screens is definitely noticable.

Re: Crankycat-haven't tested with the web-based file, but the preview exhibits the same odd banding issues as my old one did after reinstalling the OS.

You mean the moving/interference banding?
 
If this is the case they ought to be able to issue a software update online, surely...

kensuf said:
I wonder if they're just loading a new driver. The low refresh rate sickness was really prominent when I went and looked at the new books in the shop a few weeks back.

What to do, what to do.. The decision is driving me *fnutz*.
 
Hi midnight-man. This is exactly the way I feel... this is my first powerbook and I love it so much! Why the hell did they have to hobble it with such a crappy screen!?!?!? It's severely tarnishing my experience, and yet I STILL love the damn thing!

Trust Apple: Ship out substandard products and people still love 'em!

In terms of refunds, i would think that if it really is faulty you could force for a refund after the 14days. I am well over that now.

But I don't think any new PB is going to be better (except unless they commandeer Wildcard's 8540 from him :)).

Most important: AND TO EVERYONE EXPERIENCING THIS ISSUE: Call Apple. They need as much feedback as possible - even if you are keeping the product - phone them. Tell them you are not happy. Tell them you need to keep the comp for your work/job, but that you expect a fix. This is how I have left it. I keep calling intermittently to bug them. Ask to get transferred as high up as possible, and to record your complaint.

Good luck! and keep smiling, it's only a computer after all :)

... now must stop posting successively in the same thread - it just makes you look lonely :D ...work to do...


midnight-man said:
So yes, I agree that the line problem is unacceptable, and the flawed quality of finish. Both things you would not expect or accept from any top end product in life. The biggest problem of all though...

I have fallen in love with my new toy. It is very, very cool. It would suck no end to have to send it back now and wait months for a new one. Hmmm, what to do.

I know in the UK you can send it back before 14 days, does anyone know if this is the final limit for sending back for a refund, or is it 30 days. Cheers
 
Just recieved mine and the 'problem' seems to have been greatly exagerated.

It's like a collective panic going on around the forum, mines got lines - mines got bigger lines - my lines are so big that an airplane just used my screen as a runway - well my lines are so bad Tommy Lee is face down on my screen snorting!!!

I honestly can only see the lines if I force myself to look for them at about 2 inchs away from the screen, this 'problem' has to be the most 'subjective' issue of any on the forums.

I will be using the machine with photoshop and illustrator and dont have any worries of the PB screen hindering my ability to produce quality work.
 
MacRumorUser said:
Just recieved mine and the 'problem' seems to have been greatly exagerated.

It's like a collective panic going on around the forum, mines got lines - mines got bigger lines - my lines are so big that an airplane just used my screen as a runway - well my lines are so bad Tommy Lee is face down on my screen snorting!!!

I honestly can only see the lines if I force myself to look for them at about 2 inchs away from the screen, this 'problem' has to be the most 'subjective' issue of any on the forums.

I will be using the machine with photoshop and illustrator and dont have any worries of the PB screen hindering my ability to produce quality work.

Hey - glad you got a machine you're happy with. Could you post some good pictures of the machine (some of the screen close up, and some more general pictures of the high resolution in use, maybe some opening-up pics :) ).
 
MacRumorUser said:
Just received mine and the 'problem' seems to have been greatly exaggerated.

It's like a collective panic going on around the forum, mines got lines - mines got bigger lines - my lines are so big that an airplane just used my screen as a runway - well my lines are so bad Tommy Lee is face down on my screen snorting!!!

I honestly can only see the lines if I force myself to look for them at about 2 inches away from the screen, this 'problem' has to be the most 'subjective' issue of any on the forums.

I will be using the machine with photoshop and illustrator and don't have any worries of the PB screen hindering my ability to produce quality work.

Glad to hear you are happy with you PowerBook :) I think the issue for most people is their lines are really noticeable (and they are on some PowerBooks as I have seen some in stores where it is pretty bad. I think the bigger issue is when you pay $2000 or more for a computer you expect it to be a work of perfection. You should not have to deal with something by telling yourself the defect is only a minor defect. Any defect at all on something so expensive is not something that should be tolerated by customers.
 
Chrispy said:
Glad to hear you are happy with you PowerBook :) I think the issue for most people is their lines are really noticeable (and they are on some PowerBooks as I have seen some in stores where it is pretty bad. I think the bigger issue is when you pay $2000 or more for a computer you expect it to be a work of perfection. You should not have to deal with something by telling yourself the defect is only a minor defect. Any defect at all on something so expensive is not something that should be tolerated by customers.

I completely agree.

When I bought one of the first 15" Aluminum PowerBooks - my machine was plagued with the white/bright spots issue. To Apple's credit, it was fairly quickly resolved. They took the machines back and replaced the screens no questions asked. It took a while for them to recognise the issue, but when they did - they sorted it out.

Fingers crossed they'll sort this too.
 
k

sent mine back for a refund seen as there is no confirmed fix i will see what happens within the 14 day cooling off period so people send it back why should we as prosumers put up with this ???

that will hit them where it hurts in the pocket !!!!
 
Spectrum said:
When you get a chance please tell about the refresh rate. If this is now fixed, it sems like there is atleast a partial fix. I seem to remember not being able to download DisplayConfigX. Do you have the link again - thanks :)



You mean the moving/interference banding?

Yes, the banding on the orange box and the kid to the right.

As far as Supercal, I used a gamma of 2.4. I also set my brightness to 50% on the portion of the test where it asked you to test/display an all-white screen.

DisplayConfigX shows card and monitor as roughly 60 Hz, where I expect it.

Worth noting is that this is all 10.4.2; I haven't applied any updates to the OS via Software Update yet.

UPDATE: after update to 10.4.3 and some of the graphics updates therein, lines seems more prominent on flesh-tones.
 
My main concern is... will Apple ignore this issue in the future, seeing as to how they "got away with it" this time round they just might. :mad:
 
Well, tonight I made an appointment with a "Genius" at the Bridgewater store in NJ. I just moved to central jersey and used to go to the Short Hills or Tice's Corner stores. Anyway, it's one of those new "mini" stores. Computers on your left, computers on your right, genius bar in the back, nothing in the middle.

Chatted with this genius for about 15 minutes about the lines. When I showed them to him he was floored. "I've never seen those before! Let me see the 17 inch!" Well, he now believed me. I told him about how much of a widespread problem it is and showed him this forum. He was floored.

I work for a small news station and decided to give him my card. He said he'd look into it and get back to me as far as Apple's response to a solution for the issue. I thanked him and told him that it would be a shame if my station's investigative team bought a 15" powerbook and tried to get the lines fixed with no solution.

Also, I noticed that Amazon is a big spot for PB purchases with their $200 rebate. However, there are only 3 reviews and none of them mention the lines. Perhaps we should focus some of our efforts on major retailers' web sites that have reviews. If they don't sell, perhaps Apple will be forced to acknowledge the problem.

EJD
 
I looked around at stores, and while the lines are pretty small, they could be quite annoying if you're viewing a lot of pictures or high res videos.
 
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