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Horizontal Lines in New Powerbooks
- Thread starter VisualForces
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So, do you guys think I should just hold off on my purchase until Apple fixes it, or should I go ahead and buy (I really needed this two weeks ago for job, etc).
Will they let me return it for full refund if screen is shoddy?
Will they let me return it for full refund if screen is shoddy?
motherduce said:
Apple seems to be pretty accomodating lately regarding returns so you should be ok. You will likely have the line issue but many people do not think it is a big problem. I have a feeling Apple will fix this with some type of software update. If you really need one and really want one then by all means get one!
Oh, and I agree that crucial is the way to go if you are buying memory!
Chrispy said:Apple seems to be pretty accomodating lately regarding returns so you should be ok. You will likely have the line issue but many people do not think it is a big problem. I have a feeling Apple will fix this with some type of software update. If you really need one and really want one then by all means get one!
Oh, and I agree that crucial is the way to go if you are buying memory!
The line issue is huge for me, since I'm a designer. I wonder what my percentages are. I could really use it now, but how big a hassle will I have to go through to replace it/return it if it's crap? I sure wish Apple would release some sort of statement about these PB's.
Ok...
So, I (foolishly) started reading this thread...
Yes, it appears that my 15" too has the problem. But having said that, I didn't notice it until I looked for it. And even when I did, it first off made me think: Isn't this what all LCD panels look like when your nose is 2 inches from the screen?
But still, I can see it as a problem for some, and it does make me a bit annoyed, but given how great I think the machine is in general (first G4 PB, first Tiger, first 2GB, first 7200, first 9700, first airport, etc) - I don't think I really care to get it fixed, but still I will lodge a record with AppleCare - it cannot hurt, and it may help others.
The interesting thing is that I do not see it at all when typing in word - I use the white on dark blue mode - no lines whatsoever - they only seem present in lighter shades - light greys/blues. When I look at pictures, so long as they don't have large flat areas of colour (almost none do), I cannot see the problem. In fact, I think they look great! Is this others experience? Like I say, I've had it a couple of weeks, and did not notice until today when I looked for it.
Peace,
So, I (foolishly) started reading this thread...
Yes, it appears that my 15" too has the problem. But having said that, I didn't notice it until I looked for it. And even when I did, it first off made me think: Isn't this what all LCD panels look like when your nose is 2 inches from the screen?
But still, I can see it as a problem for some, and it does make me a bit annoyed, but given how great I think the machine is in general (first G4 PB, first Tiger, first 2GB, first 7200, first 9700, first airport, etc) - I don't think I really care to get it fixed, but still I will lodge a record with AppleCare - it cannot hurt, and it may help others.
The interesting thing is that I do not see it at all when typing in word - I use the white on dark blue mode - no lines whatsoever - they only seem present in lighter shades - light greys/blues. When I look at pictures, so long as they don't have large flat areas of colour (almost none do), I cannot see the problem. In fact, I think they look great! Is this others experience? Like I say, I've had it a couple of weeks, and did not notice until today when I looked for it.
Peace,
Ram for PB 15"
I put in a stick of 1gig OCZ ram and its working flawlessly, I am not sure why people think getting pairs of ram is faster its not like this rig supports dual channel.
Also while the ram is DDR2 4200 533mhz it is only running at 333mhz like the old DDR2700 ram did. To me (since I don't have the line issue) its more annoying that Apple didn't update the CPU just a nudge to support this faster RAM fully.
.:: EDIT ::.
I forgot to mention that the Disk Utility Verify Disk feature is broken on my PB as of 10.4.3 I am curious to see if its like this for everyone or am I just one of the lucky ones?
I put in a stick of 1gig OCZ ram and its working flawlessly, I am not sure why people think getting pairs of ram is faster its not like this rig supports dual channel.
Also while the ram is DDR2 4200 533mhz it is only running at 333mhz like the old DDR2700 ram did. To me (since I don't have the line issue) its more annoying that Apple didn't update the CPU just a nudge to support this faster RAM fully.
.:: EDIT ::.
I forgot to mention that the Disk Utility Verify Disk feature is broken on my PB as of 10.4.3 I am curious to see if its like this for everyone or am I just one of the lucky ones?
That would take a different processor
The G4 7447A is limited to 167MHz bus speed, with memory running at 333 using Apple's DDR hack. Everything about the new Powerbook motherboard suggests that the 90 nanometer 7448, which goes to 200/400, was earmarked for this update but not available for some reason. I saw one rumor poster suggest it was because of problems getting the 7448 to run stably; something about power stability. After all it's a new product, the first 90 nanometer G4, and Freescale hasn't exactly been impressive about meeting deadlines. Remember how long it took the 130 nanometer 7447 to come along to replace the 180 nanometer 7450-series chip in the 1GHz Titanium Powerbook and the first generation of aluminum books.
On the other hand, look at the bright side . . . having 533 RAM idle at 333 makes for better latency at lower power. Yeah I know I'm grasping at straws here, but it's worth a shot.
The G4 7447A is limited to 167MHz bus speed, with memory running at 333 using Apple's DDR hack. Everything about the new Powerbook motherboard suggests that the 90 nanometer 7448, which goes to 200/400, was earmarked for this update but not available for some reason. I saw one rumor poster suggest it was because of problems getting the 7448 to run stably; something about power stability. After all it's a new product, the first 90 nanometer G4, and Freescale hasn't exactly been impressive about meeting deadlines. Remember how long it took the 130 nanometer 7447 to come along to replace the 180 nanometer 7450-series chip in the 1GHz Titanium Powerbook and the first generation of aluminum books.
On the other hand, look at the bright side . . . having 533 RAM idle at 333 makes for better latency at lower power. Yeah I know I'm grasping at straws here, but it's worth a shot.
g0gie said:
I have the Kingston KTA-PB533/1G in my new Powerbook and it works. I also think that they do guarantee compatibility. In my Titanium i have a 512 Mb Kingston stick and i works since years.
MacRumorUser said:Ok, can someone tell me does the new powerbooks have to have their memory paired?
Crucial claim that you can only put in dual configuarations (i.e 2x 512 or 2x1gig)
I wanted to just buy 1 gig and add it to the 512 already installed. Therefore have 1.5 is this possible anyone?
I've done that with a Kingston 1 GB Upgrade and it works and i think it will also work with ram from crucial.
Well I decided to cancel the Kingston and order crucial - 7 Euro more
Selling my 12" Powerbook 1.5 and upgrading to the new 15" with 7200RPM drive is a big enough gamble - I just hope my screens ok...
Managed to have a good chat with a guy at Apple Store (online) Ireland and he had not heard of the problem and he has a new powerbook himself, he was raving about the new screen.
Selling my 12" Powerbook 1.5 and upgrading to the new 15" with 7200RPM drive is a big enough gamble - I just hope my screens ok...
Managed to have a good chat with a guy at Apple Store (online) Ireland and he had not heard of the problem and he has a new powerbook himself, he was raving about the new screen.
My new 15" arrived today and I do have the "lines" issue. Actually seeing it firsthand, I'm rather dubious that this is a software/driver problem, but as soon as I get home I'll be popping in a Linux LiveCD to rule this out (and will comment on the results as well).
It's interesting that I don't see the lines on the title bar; only on the blue/grey wallpaper. Switching to one of the Nature or Plants images make the lines much less noticable. I found that the lines were MORE noticable on a 2.2 gamma setting than the default 1.8, for me.
Oh, and I also have a very slight amount of lid wobble that I'm willing to live with as well.
It's interesting that I don't see the lines on the title bar; only on the blue/grey wallpaper. Switching to one of the Nature or Plants images make the lines much less noticable. I found that the lines were MORE noticable on a 2.2 gamma setting than the default 1.8, for me.
Oh, and I also have a very slight amount of lid wobble that I'm willing to live with as well.
I stopped my my local Apple store this weekend and every PB they had showed signs of this problem. I was driving the sales guys crazy staring real closely at the screens and then running over to the iMacs or PowerMac screens to do a compariason. I di this for like 20 mins. LOL.
One other thing I noticed, there is a grey line running through the menu bar. I can see this from 5 feet away. There doesnt seems to be a variation in darkness. I dont see it on my iBook. I have 10.3 on my iBook. Is this something new with 10.4 or is this a screen issure also?
One other thing I noticed, there is a grey line running through the menu bar. I can see this from 5 feet away. There doesnt seems to be a variation in darkness. I dont see it on my iBook. I have 10.3 on my iBook. Is this something new with 10.4 or is this a screen issure also?
The grey line on the menu bar is supposed to be there (it exists in video ram screenshots).
I suspect the 'scanline' artifacts are bad LCD screens, especially since we have had reports of satisfactory screens. I took my PowerBook with defective LCD back for a full refund. I am now waiting for fixed models to start leaving the factory so I can buy another one!
I suspect the 'scanline' artifacts are bad LCD screens, especially since we have had reports of satisfactory screens. I took my PowerBook with defective LCD back for a full refund. I am now waiting for fixed models to start leaving the factory so I can buy another one!
Arcus said:
mactim said:
Have you heard anything from Apple on this issue? What did they say when you returned it?
Okay, so I have been constantly updating the Repair Status web site for my PowerBook and it now says "Hold - Engineering"...
I wonder how long I will have to wait?
~Jeff Corbets
I wonder how long I will have to wait?
~Jeff Corbets
Food for thought at ATI's website...
https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&folderID=299
Troubleshooting Common DVI Flat Panel Display Issues
This document outlines common display issues which may occur when using DVI Flat Panels and the steps that can be taken to try and resolve them.
In some instances, when using a DVI Flat Panel you may experience one or more of the following symptom:
* No video or black screen before Windows loads
* Incorrect size of text while the system starts
* Monitor may report an incorrect display mode
* Scrambled or blanking video within Windows
***********Horizontal lines, or artifacts in the display**********
Each of these symptoms can potentially be caused for a variety of reasons. The following are the most common sources:
* Issue with the panel's connection to the graphics card
* Incorrect monitor type selected in Windows
* Refresh rate is too high/incorrect
* Selected display resolution exceeds panel's capabilities
* Unsupported graphics card configuration
* Issue with the system BIOS or its configuration
* Conflict with USB support from motherboard
https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&folderID=299
Troubleshooting Common DVI Flat Panel Display Issues
This document outlines common display issues which may occur when using DVI Flat Panels and the steps that can be taken to try and resolve them.
In some instances, when using a DVI Flat Panel you may experience one or more of the following symptom:
* No video or black screen before Windows loads
* Incorrect size of text while the system starts
* Monitor may report an incorrect display mode
* Scrambled or blanking video within Windows
***********Horizontal lines, or artifacts in the display**********
Each of these symptoms can potentially be caused for a variety of reasons. The following are the most common sources:
* Issue with the panel's connection to the graphics card
* Incorrect monitor type selected in Windows
* Refresh rate is too high/incorrect
* Selected display resolution exceeds panel's capabilities
* Unsupported graphics card configuration
* Issue with the system BIOS or its configuration
* Conflict with USB support from motherboard
My new 15" PB was delivered today and I was fearing the worst but I am over the moon with mine. No dead pixels and the only way I could see any horizontal lines was if I moved close up to the screen.
I assume that some PB's must be worse than others as I couldn't be happier with mine. I also ran a little photoshop test to see how quick it was using a filter and it beat my P4 2.53 Ghz with 1Gb ram by 20% (and my PB currently only has 512MB) so I am happy enough with it's speed also
I assume that some PB's must be worse than others as I couldn't be happier with mine. I also ran a little photoshop test to see how quick it was using a filter and it beat my P4 2.53 Ghz with 1Gb ram by 20% (and my PB currently only has 512MB) so I am happy enough with it's speed also
Fireburst said:My new 15" PB was delivered today and I was fearing the worst but I am over the moon with mine. No dead pixels and the only way I could see any horizontal lines was if I moved close up to the screen.
I assume that some PB's must be worse than others as I couldn't be happier with mine. I also ran a little photoshop test to see how quick it was using a filter and it beat my P4 2.53 Ghz with 1Gb ram by 20% (and my PB currently only has 512MB) so I am happy enough with it's speed also
That's good news, though I think I'll notice it with all the graphic/flash work I do.
I think I'm going to order one, then just return it for full refund if not satisfied with the screen.
I'm wondering if it's an issue with the flat-panel connectors from the display to the logic board...might be worth a visit to pbfixit.com to check out.
ROFLMAO (Almost literally).revisionA said:
Nice analogy, Rev. How's your PB treating you, btw?
I have the same problem and at first I was just going to ignore it but it is really beginning to annoying when I do editing or design work. I'm just going to bring it back and hopefully they'll have another one that's not flawed. Maybe I'll take it in next week so they might have better shipments.
Other than the lines the book is perfect. But it's still sad my post is about a "porblem".
Other than the lines the book is perfect. But it's still sad my post is about a "porblem".
Be more demanding!
No offence intended, but unfortunately this sort of complacency is why Apple will never publicly acknowledge the issue and will always claim it's 'within specs'.
No offence intended, but unfortunately this sort of complacency is why Apple will never publicly acknowledge the issue and will always claim it's 'within specs'.
Fireburst said:My new 15" PB was delivered today and I was fearing the worst but I am over the moon with mine. No dead pixels and the only way I could see any horizontal lines was if I moved close up to the screen.
I assume that some PB's must be worse than others as I couldn't be happier with mine. I also ran a little photoshop test to see how quick it was using a filter and it beat my P4 2.53 Ghz with 1Gb ram by 20% (and my PB currently only has 512MB) so I am happy enough with it's speed also
mactim said:
Not complacent at all. It isn't an issue as far as I am concerned. If you move close to any LCD screen you will see lines and dots. Like I said some must be worse than others because AFAIK my PB is fine for graphics work. I will phone them and let them know that when I move close to the screen I can see faint lines because if it is an issue which could get worse then it is best I inform them early. Also if enough contact them they may look into it further.
I may have been lucky. I said I had a faulty screen that exhibited 'scanline' artifacts. We booted it up; I pointed out the lines against the default tiger desktop. I then asked if I could inspect a replacement, but apparently this was against store policy, so I asked for a refund on the basis of not wanting to waste any more time returning defective units. I was getting ready to argue my case for not paying a 10% restocking fee, but he credited back the full amount.
They MUST know about this issue. Every 15" PB in the London store has the problem.
They MUST know about this issue. Every 15" PB in the London store has the problem.
motherduce said: