Horizontal Lines in New Powerbooks

[Arcus]

If I was a gambling man I would say the fault was probably interference with the signal from the graphics card to the LCD as I remember seeing something similar a few years ago. Perhaps it's just a matter of something needs better shielding.

Might explain why some are worse than others, dependant on how well the person who routed the cable did thier job.

 

[MacFan26]

Okay, I just bought a new 15" myself, and I'm seeing the lines as well. I noticed it right off and tried changing the settings and that didn't accomplish anything. I thought maybe it was just me or just a minor issue, but after reading this thread it seems to be a bigger problem. I'm already annoyed because the only reason why I bought this is because my titanium doesn't work anymore (it was my fault...but still). Do we have a straight answer out of Apple yet? I'd like to know if I'm going to have to send this back in...

 

[revisionA]

And rightfully so, seeing as how they spend about twice as much for Apple products. For $2000, I sure as hell better have a VERY nice screen to look at.

Set up a Lenovo or Sony or Panasonic or Samsung to similar specs and you will see the price is justified. I have driven the price of a sony s class to over 3000 before setting it up right. You dont get much in a laptop for under 1000, or even 1500. 2000 is when things start getting sweet.

I want it to be perfect too, but unless they do another manuf run how could it be the same screen if they replace it. And worse, your mint condition machine could come back scratched or a little twisted from all the reworking.

I am just trying to be objective, I'm pissed there's a problem, but it seems like every revision had something not quite right.

$

 

[MacFan26]

I am just trying to be objective, I'm pissed there's a problem, but it seems like every revision had something not quite right.

$

Yeah, I agree with that, but the main reason why I'm mad is because my screen looks fine on my old powerbook that's over 2 years old. Why should the new one look worse?

 

[chadwick]

Irony?

Wasn't the biggest selling point of these revised powerbooks the new screen? Why hasn't anyone pointed out this pathetic irony? Other than a very minor speed increase that is non-related to the processor and a small price decrease the only difference between these powerbooks and the "old" ones are the "improved" screens. So what gives? This shouldn't be some underground secret that I had to discover in a web-blog. This should be very public news. Why isn't this issue being reported at a higher level? Why hasn't Apple publicly acknowledged this flaw?

 

[Chrispy]

Ok here is what happened. I returned the 17" iMac, got a 15" powerbook... the screen on the powerbook was total crap (just like the other two I saw. I drove an hour and a half to Oak Brook to the Apple store there and took that back. I then got an iMac 17" again that does not have the bleeding at the top. It is slightly darker in the upper left corner but I don't mind as it just makes the text seem more crisp on the menus. The screen is bright and beautiful and I could not be happier. I also got 1.5 GB of RAM (was feeling lazy and got it cheap there) and Applecare Very pleased with purchase!

However, everyone in the store, including the genius, said all the powerbook 15" models had that problem but it was still within normal operating parameters. Normal parameters my a$$! When paying that much for a computer the screen should be bright and beautiful! They did take it back free of restocking fees but made it clear it would just be resold as no fault found. So, someone else will get my returned PowerBook with dim screen and lines... sorry for that person.

P.S. We went through 2 iMacs before this one in the Apple store to get one that work. First one had scratch in screen and second one had cracks in the casing Kinda scary to think about the odds there haha!

 

[VisualForces]

Glad to hear they waived the restocking fee on this issue. That's definitely good news.

 

[VogonPoet]

I've heard conflicting reports on which models are effected. Does the horizontal lines issue only effect the 15" model or does the 17" model also have this problem?

I looked at all the new PBs in my local Apple Store (Portland) and all the 15" units had the 'horizontal line' issue. None of the 17" models had it. This makes sense since the 15" and 17" PBs use different LCD displays.

 

[Chrispy]

I looked at all the new PBs in my local Apple Store (Portland) and all the 15" units had the 'horizontal line' issue. None of the 17" models had it. This makes sense since the 15" and 17" PBs use different LCD displays.

The 17" model was BEAUTIFUL! The screens on those were nice and bright and had no visible issues. If I would have had the money I would have bought one of those haha! However, I got my iMac, an upgrade to 1.5GB RAM, Applecare AND a 30GB iPod Video for less than I paid for just the 15" PowerBook haha! I love my iMac

 

[tribe3]

I've been working on Raw (.NEF) and .jpg files on Photoshop all afternoon on my new "faulty" screen and I still don't understand what you guys are complaining about. I’m not saying that you don’t know what you’re talking about… just that I don’t see where, how, those lines are hurting rather than on the light blue background picture of the desktop.

I see very good quality graphics, great smooth skin texture, and crisp shine on eyes, and fine details on hair against blurry background. Deep colors, great contrast…

I can only post screenshots as I did on the first page of this thread, and because that is how my eyes see it. Taking pictures of the screen with my DSLR just gives me crappy images of the screen and also of my iMac’s screen, my son’s PC, and our TV. They just don’t get along with the sensor of the digital camera and I don’t see the point of taking pictures of electronic screens.

Why don’t some of you guys that are disappointed don’t post some “screenshots” of your work on the offending screen so we can see if it really is ALL of the new PB’s or just some of them.

As I said, I can see the ‘lines’ as a very fine texture on the Apple light blue desktop picture and that’s about it. I don’t see them where they would bother.

I, like you guys, bought this PB about a week ago; I have the warranty and all. I could send it in and get a refund or whatever, but I have to say that so far so good! Better than my older PB’s screen.

Cheers

Pablo

 

[VogonPoet]

Unfortunately, a screenshot will not capture the LCD defect since the screenshot will simply be a copy of the video memory. The defect seems to be in the LCD hardware which can only be captured by taking a real photo of the screen.

I've been working on Raw (.NEF) and .jpg files on Photoshop all afternoon on my new "faulty" screen and I still don't understand what you guys are complaining about. I’m not saying that you don’t know what you’re talking about… just that I don’t see where, how, those lines are hurting rather than on the light blue background picture of the desktop.

I see very good quality graphics, great smooth skin texture, and crisp shine on eyes, and fine details on hair against blurry background. Deep colors, great contrast…

I can only post screenshots as I did on the first page of this thread, and because that is how my eyes see it. Taking pictures of the screen with my DSLR just gives me crappy images of the screen and also of my iMac’s screen, my son’s PC, and our TV. They just don’t get along with the sensor of the digital camera and I don’t see the point of taking pictures of electronic screens.

Why don’t some of you guys that are disappointed don’t post some “screenshots” of your work on the offending screen so we can see if it really is ALL of the new PB’s or just some of them.

As I said, I can see the ‘lines’ as a very fine texture on the Apple light blue desktop picture and that’s about it. I don’t see them where they would bother.

I, like you guys, bought this PB about a week ago; I have the warranty and all. I could send it in and get a refund or whatever, but I have to say that so far so good! Better than my older PB’s screen.

Cheers

Pablo

 

[cplusd]

That looks like a screenshot, not an actual photo, so that really don't count. Now if I just did Flash Dev and wrote ActionScript all day (used too) I'd say this wouldn't be a huge issue. But I also do a lot of design work for flash and start in Photoshop. A lot of my work is very detailed down to the pixel level. I've applied this kind of texture (scan line) to some of my layouts and honestly I don't want my LCD to default them for me (the whole freaking screen).

I've said before when I check email and surf the web before I head into work I don't really get bothered. But when I start to work it's very hard to get over these horizontal lines. As an update I returned my PowerBook for a full refund today. They did try to just exchange but the new PowerBook has these issues, along with all the display models. So now I'm without a computer over the weekend unless I spring for something else.

I'd actually stick with the new 15 if Apple had a solid fix (maybe firmware or driver), but I don't feel this is the case. I'm at the point where I may just buy a new G5 2.0Ghz or heck even a G5 iMac. But then I'm f'n tethered to my desktop which is not an option. I owned a new 17 for a few days but it had flickering problems and I also didn't care for the size. And the 12 is not even in the run in my book.

 

[cplusd]

http://www.inlineinc.com/tech/notes/technot2.htm

Might not sheed light on this issue but some may find it
a interesting read.

 

[tribe3]

Unfortunately, a screenshot will not capture the LCD defect since the screenshot will simply be a copy of the video memory. The defect seems to be in the LCD hardware which can only be captured by taking a real photo of the screen.

Valid explanation But that screenshot, valid or not for demonstration purposes, still reflects truthfully what I see when I look at pictures, games, et cetera. No lines

I don’t feed my family out of the computer, so even though I am picky! I’m not analyzing each pixel with a magnifying glass. Also, I don’t work for Apple and I earn my money with hard work like most, so even though I like the screen as it is, this issue still bothers me somewhat, mainly because my new computer is starting to build a bad reputation… I guess it can hurt resale value when I sell it, one or two years from now.

Meanwhile I’m honestly happy with it. I trust my outlook and I normally don’t connect with collective hysteria.

I’ll be following this thread with much interest.

Regards,

Pablo

 

[Demon Hunter]

I looked at all the new PBs in my local Apple Store (Portland) and all the 15" units had the 'horizontal line' issue. None of the 17" models had it. This makes sense since the 15" and 17" PBs use different LCD displays.

Can anyone confirm this with some confidence? The 17" is not affected by the "scan lines", and 10.4.3 has fixed the video "flicker"?

Thanks.

 

[Chrispy]

Can anyone confirm this with some confidence? The 17" is not affected by the "scan lines", and 10.4.3 has fixed the video "flicker"?

Thanks.

17" model is not affected by the scan lines. I looked at multiple store models and they all looked fine. However, every 15" model on display had the scan-lines problem. Also, the people in the Apple Store knew about it and said Apple was not considering it a defect of any kind. I'm not sure about the screen flickering issue tho.

 

[lieb39]

I asked on another forum (Neowin Thread) and people were saying although they have this problem, it isn't noticeable unless right up to the monitor. It seems that people on this thread are overreacting? I think even my LCD has this problem [Desktop LCD with Scanlines] haha..

Cheers,

lieb39

 

[Tristan_X]

I don't think people are overreacting. I'm still a little upset that I didn't make a bigger deal out of the three lighter spots on my 15" pb screen (2 years old).

Apple doesn't make a 'better' line of portables, so this sort of thing shouldn't be a problem.

 

[lieb39]

I haven't seen the displays in person yet, so I'm not going to argue a point of view. But from what I hear, you can only see these horizontal lines if you put your face right up to the monitor. If that's the case, why would it matter? I don't think even professionals go up to the screen to that extent.

On the other hand, the Powerbooks are expensive, and with expensive items (especially computers) people expect a certain level of quality. If the lines are visible from a normal distance away then Apple should be replacing current customer's screens and changing the manufacturing process to fix this issue. When paying top price, people expect top products.

In any-case I'll see the screen on Monday and make a decision then if it's a big enough problem.

-lieb39

 

[Fireburst]

I haven't seen the displays myself but my new PB arrives on Monday (wOOt ... Monday is new Apple day) and after reading what Pablo has said I feel a little better.

Monday is still Apple day

 

[dblissmn]

The computers I saw at the downtown Chicago Apple Store, which all had the lines, basically looked very "muddy" or even not quite tuned in as a result. The one I saw at MicroCenter seemed very crisp by comparison and line wise, at least, was within my tolerances. Caveat -- the MicroCenter one was set to a grey screen background instead of blue, and was also across the room from the nearest Airport base station; while the Apple Store ones were all on blue and all jammed up next to base stations. Next time I have an errand to run over that way I'll step in and take another closer look, but I'm not promising any time soon.

I'm pretty sure the problem is not with the LCD panel itself but with some kind of electrical interference -- maybe a refresh rate not set quite right, or something not quite properly shielded.

UPDATE -- The MicroCenter one has them too -- I went over to that strip mall to buy groceries and popped in; it is definitely obvious when the display is blue. Basically it makes the display look grainy and a bit dull compared to the others. Too bad.

 

[Wombert]

Some people already said it might be a refresh rate problem. I too think this is possible. I was wondering whether someone could install Linux (or just boot a Gentoo/Ubuntu Live CD/DVD) and play around with the refresh rates there (after, of course, setting the display to it's native resolution). Might be worth a try.

 

[MacFan26]

I haven't seen the displays in person yet, so I'm not going to argue a point of view. But from what I hear, you can only see these horizontal lines if you put your face right up to the monitor. If that's the case, why would it matter?

I can see the lines when I'm at a normal distance away from it. It just looks...grainy? Like if it was your tv you'd slap it on the side to see if it would go away. I don't know...

 

[Chrispy]

I can see the lines when I'm at a normal distance away from it. It just looks...grainy? Like if it was your tv you'd slap it on the side to see if it would go away. I don't know...

Yeah I know what you mean. I could not believe the people in the Apple Store were trying to tell me that it was "normal". I just laughed at the genius and them make him walk the store with me and look at EVERY SINGLE OTHER computer and monitor on display to show him only the 15" PowerBook had that problem haha! In the end, they let me exchange it for an iMac 17" which I love so very much. I have a sneaking suspicion there will be some kind of firmware upgrade that will fix the problem.

 

[MacFan26]

I have a sneaking suspicion there will be some kind of firmware upgrade that will fix the problem.

Hopefully, that would really be awesome if they could do that.