Hot Stove thread

[IJ Reilly]

Nothing compares to the rivalry that the Yankees and Red Sox have, Actually its more a hatred then a rivalry to be honest. What the Giants and Dodgers had was more of a New York thing then it is now out west. Back then those teams were fighting hard in pennet races as lately they have both been a joke.

I think those are supposed to be fightin' words. Yes, the Dodgers fell apart last year, but the year before that they were the NL West champs. No joke.

 

[Counterfit]

BTW, now I can see why the Dodgers didn't end up signing Damon -- he was asking for too much money and too many years for a guy his age.

Kinda like the Sox didn't want to give Pedro as much as he was asking for, given his age and condition. Hey, maybe we can get a center fielder that has an arm now Honestly, I'm kinda surprised the Mets didn't make a go. Perhaps they learned from last off-season?

 

[macbaseball]

I'm in shock. The Giants have traded Alfonzo straight across for Steve Finley. Although Finley had a down year, he is still much better than Alfonzo. Alfonzo had driven me crazy ever since he got that big deal three years ago...

See Here

 

[Sayhey]

I'm in shock. The Giants have traded Alfonzo straight across for Steve Finley. Although Finley had a down year, he is still much better than Alfonzo. Alfonzo had driven me crazy ever since he got that big deal three years ago...

See Here

The Angels must be in need of injury prone third basemen with little range and no power. Alfonzo still can hit a little and he is good with the glove at what he gets to, but for 6+ million a year?

I'm looking forward to Moises' birthday this summer when we can have an all 40 year-old outfield. The rest of the division will be jealous as all hell.

 

[Kwyjibo]

Kinda like the Sox didn't want to give Pedro as much as he was asking for, given his age and condition. Hey, maybe we can get a center fielder that has an arm now Honestly, I'm kinda surprised the Mets didn't make a go. Perhaps they learned from last off-season?

Pedro had a great year and the Mets have had two relatively great off seasons, they have beltran in center .... Pedro posted 15 wins, sold plenty of tickets and had an era below 3 ... He's still a stud I thought he was past his prime way back when but he gets it done.

 

[Chubypig]

Another man sells his soul to the Yankees. What a surprise. And the Yankees think that they can buy a championship.

These types of comments bug me, because the point of free agency and trades, etc. is to improve your team. Every team is trying to buy a championship! Because if they're not buying it, then they're not paying their players. In which case, they must have one hell of a set of those motivational tapes...

 

[Sayhey]

Nothing compares to the rivalry that the Yankees and Red Sox have, Actually its more a hatred then a rivalry to be honest. What the Giants and Dodgers had was more of a New York thing then it is now out west. Back then those teams were fighting hard in pennet races as lately they have both been a joke.

This is more of a function of the New York "center-of-the-universe" thinking that spills over into sports than any real gage of baseball fans true feelings. Not that we San Franciscans cannot fall into the same stupid trap - just ask folks from Oakland and San Jose. It's just New Yorkers are better at it than almost any other citizen of the world's great cities. You've got to stop taking the words of "New York, New York" quite so literally.

If you haven't been to a Giants/Dodgers game in the last week of the season with the division on the line - you don't know what rivalry is. These two teams can be competing for last place and it still gets nasty. Beating the other team is almost more important than winning the pennant. At least that's the feeling from up north. IJ and aloofman can speak for fans of the Boys in Blue.

 

[MacNut]

Im saying that the Dodgers Giants rivalry started in NY and that is when is was at its biggest point.

It looks like the Yankees have not only Damon but Bernie back for another year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2268142

Bernie Williams is staying with the New York Yankees, agreeing Wednesday to a $1.5 million, one-year contract that allows him to earn an additional $1.5 million in performance bonuses.

 

[Koodauw]

I think those are supposed to be fightin' words. Yes, the Dodgers fell apart last year, but the year before that they were the NL West champs. No joke.

They were NL west Champs, but still a joke

Looks the Yankees signed Bernie to a 1yr deal as well. Im glad to see this happen. I think he still has some magic left in him.

 

[thedude110]

Looks the Yankees signed Bernie to a 1yr deal as well. Im glad to see this happen. I think he still has some magic left in him.

This is good news for Red Sox fans!

 

[IJ Reilly]

If you haven't been to a Giants/Dodgers game in the last week of the season with the division on the line - you don't know what rivalry is. These two teams can be competing for last place and it still gets nasty. Beating the other team is almost more important than winning the pennant. At least that's the feeling from up north. IJ and aloofman can speak for fans of the Boys in Blue.

I think Giants fans take it somewhat more seriously than Dodger fans. This is probably a function of the state's north-south rivalry. Northern Californians like to look down on everything Southern California, but Southern Californians basically don't give two hoots what Northern Californians think. IIRC, it was you who once told me to never wear my Dodger cap at a Giants home game, that it might be dangerous. Conspicuous Giant fans at Dodger Stadium may get heckled if they're loud, but usually in a good-natured way.

Still tickets for San Francisco at LA are always in high demand. Even meaningless SF-LA games are fun. It's a real, live rivalry, not an extension of the New York days.

 

[aloofman]

I think Giants fans take it somewhat more seriously than Dodger fans. This is probably a function of the state's north-south rivalry. Northern Californians like to look down on everything Southern California, but Southern Californians basically don't give two hoots what Northern Californians think. IIRC, it was you who once told me to never wear my Dodger cap at a Giants home game, that it might be dangerous.

This is something that my Nocal friends had trouble understanding at first. "You mean you don't hate us back?" San Francisco, for example, has a weird phobia about Los Angeles that borders on an inferiority complex, even though they know they live in a great city and everyone else knows too.

A couple years ago the city planted palm trees on the Embarcadero and some people were upset that it was an LA thing. You can't make up some of this stuff. My parents have friends in the Bay Area that refuse to visit here. I used to joke that Nocals breed their children to hate.

One of my proudest moments was seven or eight years ago when I took two Nocal friends to Dodger Stadium for a game. (This just happened to be the same day that Mike Piazza was traded to the Marlins.) At one point one turned to the other and said, "The Giants deserve a stadium this nice." Coming from him, it meant a lot. And now, of course, the Giants have one.

Conspicuous Giant fans at Dodger Stadium may get heckled if they're loud, but usually in a good-natured way.

This is generally true. You rarely hear about Dodger fans throwing batteries at players on the field or anything. Although there was a Giant fan a few years ago that got killed at the Ravine.

 

[IJ Reilly]

This is generally true. You rarely hear about Dodger fans throwing batteries at players on the field or anything. Although there was a Giant fan a few years ago that got killed at the Ravine.

Wasn't that last season? An altercation in the parking lot, IIRC. In the end I never heard whether it had anything to do with team rivalries.

I'd forgotten about the Palm Tree Incident. That was quite hilarious, but part-and-parcel of San Francisco's wacky cultural politics. Keep it up guys, you're slaying us down here!

 

[Silencio]

Happy Days! Fonzie is gone.

More good news for Giants fans: the grossly disappointing and overpaid Edgardo Alfonzo has been foisted upon the Angels in exchange for Steve Finley, who should've been a Giants years and years ago.

You'd think this would cause a logjam in the outfield now, but there should be plenty of playing time available for the top four guys (Bonds, Alou, Finley, and Randy Winn). Winn is the youngest guy by far and really needs to start: he was a monster in his half-season with the Giants last year. The other three guys will need plenty of rest between them -- I'd be surprised if either Bonds or Alou played over 120 games.

An upgrade at 1B would be nice, but there's probably not many affordable options on the market anymore. A Neikro/Sweeney platoon is pretty uninspiring.

 

[Sayhey]

I'd forgotten about the Palm Tree Incident. That was quite hilarious, but part-and-parcel of San Francisco's wacky cultural politics. Keep it up guys, you're slaying us down here!

We aim to please.

What everyone else sees as wacky, we see as cutting edge!

btw, I hate the palm trees too. Evil Socal plants infesting our environment

Now, how many days to when pitchers and catchers report?

 

[aloofman]

Now, how many days to when pitchers and catchers report?

Too many.

 

[Sayhey]

An upgrade at 1B would be nice, but there's probably not many affordable options on the market anymore. A Neikro/Sweeney platoon is pretty uninspiring.

To say the least. Niekro's numbers after the break were in free fall. Sweeney is a good bench player but is not starting material. I do like the addition of Finley. He gives both much more power to the club than Alfonzo and the needed defensive back up at all the outfield positions. Now they just need a backup catcher, a good utility infielder, and a new starting pitcher.

 

[Silencio]

To say the least. Niekro's numbers after the break were in free fall. Sweeney is a good bench player but is not starting material. I do like the addition of Finley. He gives both much more power to the club than Alfonzo and the needed defensive back up at all the outfield positions. Now they just need a backup catcher, a good utility infielder, and a new starting pitcher.

Agree with all the needs, but I think another starting pitcher is the least pressing need. I think either Hennessey or Correia has the potential to step up and be a consistent fifth starter, at the very least. This is also assuming that Matt Cain doesn't have a sophomore slump, of course, but he looks like the most promising Giants starting prospect to come along in a while. I want to see the Giants commit to developing a good young pitcher for a change instead of just dealing them off willy-nilly for another old vet.

A Giants fan sporting a Bertrand Russell quote -- I like your style!

 

[goodtimes5]

Agree with all the needs, but I think another starting pitcher is the least pressing need. I think either Hennessey or Correia has the potential to step up and be a consistent fifth starter, at the very least. This is also assuming that Matt Cain doesn't have a sophomore slump, of course, but he looks like the most promising Giants starting prospect to come along in a while. I want to see the Giants commit to developing a good young pitcher for a change instead of just dealing them off willy-nilly for another old vet.

A Giants fan sporting a Bertrand Russell quote -- I like your style!

The day the Giants trade Matt Cain is the day hell freezes over.

 

[Silencio]

The day the Giants trade Matt Cain is the day hell freezes over.

Jerome Williams and Jesse Foppert were once considered untouchables, too, and they were sent packing just last year.

By and large, Brian Sabean has done a good job trading away the Giants' young pitching prospects (the Jason Schmidt deal with the Pirates was highway robbery). A few of his "misses" are pretty glaring, though: giving up Joe Nathan probably cost the Giants a deep playoff run in 2004, nothing useful came out of the Jerome Williams trade, and the 2003 Giants would have been much better served by Russ Ortiz instead of Damian Moss/Sir Sidney Ponson.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Dodgers just signed Brett Tomko for two years. Be still my heart.

And much to my surprise, they offered Choi a one year contract. I still think he's trade bait, if not now then in July.

 

[aloofman]

I do like the addition of Finley. He gives both much more power to the club than Alfonzo and the needed defensive back up at all the outfield positions.

This is assuming that he gets his swing back, of course. His defense is still solid and everyone agrees that he's in tremendous shape for his age. If they get the 2004 Steve Finley, then they're golden because carried the lineup at times that year. And of course Giants fans know what he's capable of.

But he's also 40 years old and pushing the limits of how productive an outfielder can be at that age. People thought he was just about done when he want to the D'backs, but he kept on playing well. Like with Bonds, eventually the predictions of his permanent decline will turn out to be true. Both Bonds and Finley are strongly defying traditional career paths, so I think they're at a career transition right now.

I think it's still a good trade for both teams though. Both players were giving their teams little production at a position that was easily filled by others, and both teams got capable backups that could turn things around and really help the team. If both players suck again, each team will just have a $7 million benchwarmer, which is what they had already.

 

[Koodauw]

Looks like the BoSux want Snow to play first base.

 

[MacNut]

Looks like the Blue Jays are building a contender up north.

ORONTO -- Troy Glaus got a look at the rebuilt Toronto Blue Jays and waived his right to block a trade up north.

The Arizona Diamondbacks dealt the power-hitting Glaus and top minor-league shortstop prospect Sergio Santos to the Blue Jays on Tuesday for Gold Glove second baseman Orlando Hudson and pitcher Miguel Batista.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2272508

 

[Sayhey]

Oh, Boy, did I have to dig to find this thread. I guess there is not much baseball news to speak of this month.

Anyway, maybe IJ or aloofman can explain this trade for me. Have the Dodgers decided Gagne isn't going to make it back for the season or is this a move for the following season because Gagne has decided to go for free agency? And they gave up on Jackson? Well, I guess you have to give something to get something.

If both Gagne and Baez are healthy, you guys have one heck of a bullpen.

LA gets Baez from Rays for prospects
Dodgers shore up relief corps with former All-Stars
By Ken Gurnick / MLB.com

LOS ANGELES -- With Eric Gagne returning from elbow surgery and eligible for free agency at the end of 2006, the Dodgers Saturday shored up their bullpen for the near-term (and maybe longer) by acquiring All-Star closer Danys Baez and former All-Star middle reliever Lance Carter from the Tampa Bay Devil Rays for young pitchers Edwin Jackson and Chuck Tiffany.
The 28-year-old Baez, a Cuban-born right-hander, saved 41 games for Tampa Bay in 2005, fifth in the American League, and has 102 saves in four seasons. He started his career with Cleveland, was released after the 2003 season and signed with Tampa Bay.

Baez is under contract for 2006 with a $4 million salary and is eligible for free agency after the 2006 season. The Dodgers are paying Gagne $10 million this year and the club has a 2007 option for $12 million, but Gagne can void the option, receive a $1 million buyout and also declare free agency.

The 31-year-old Carter, an All-Star in 2003, threw 57 innings in 39 games with a 4.90 ERA in 2005. He is expected to pick up some of the innings lost by the departures of Duaner Sanchez and Giovanni Carrara. He underwent Tommy John elbow reconstruction twice, in 1996 and 2000.

The 22-year-old Jackson, once the top prospect in the Dodgers farm system, has been a disappointment the past two seasons, plagued by a sore forearm in 2004 and continued inconsistency in 2005.

Tiffany, 22 later this month, is the first top prospect general manager Ned Colletti has traded during his extreme makeover of the Dodgers' roster. Tiffany, a left-hander, was taken in the second round of the 2003 draft. But some in the organization believe he had been passed by 20-year-old left-hander Scott Elbert, taken in the first round of the 2004 draft.

mlb.com