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How can people afford such expensive stuff?
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One can have the fanciest equipment there is, but that does not guarantee that one will produce more than ordinary products (music, photos, and so on). Regardless of the kind of work you do, the more skillful you become with the process of creating...music in your case, the greater the chance for you to become more proficient at it. The equipment just makes thing easier for you, but it does not create music for you. The same for photography, in which case a good photo is not created by the camera.
Also, risk-taking isn't the key for success. Risk taking is much like a gamble. Skill development and careful planning may be best. See, you are at the learning stages in your life. You will have different ideas and processes, while the old and professional geezers are just living the things they learned through their lives. They can teach you a few things, but it is you who has to be skillful enough to surpass the ordinary.
Great that you're in music production at 18! Don't worry too much about expensive gear. These days, you don't need that much to do pro music productions. Did you check out Apple's Logic? In the long run, it's a lot cheaper than going the Pro Tools way, because there is no subscription and upgrade fees. Depending on your situation, you may even be able to get the Pro App Bundle at the student discounted price. And any M1 Mac will be more than enough for music production, and would be a better investment than an Intel Mac Pro. Intel-based Macs will become obsolete soon...
My father had a funny saying that the cheapest car for a poor man is a Rolls Royce. What he meant by that of course is if you don't have much money then you need to buy good quality that will last, be reliable and cost you the minimum in maintenance. He didn't mention how long it might take a poor man to save enough to buy one but having done so he would probably never need to buy another.
To a fair degree I have followed his advice. Thats why I'm writing this on a 2021 14" M1 MBP bought in 2022. Before that I had a Late 2015 13" MBPr bought in 2018. I have never had less than 500GB storage despite the tempting price difference. I have never bought anything I could not afford to pay cash for.
So my view is paying more initially saves money in the long run, pretty much in line with my fathers advice and as others have already said it doesn't have to be this years model.
Personally I think for an 18 year old you are doing really well. I really like your post, good communication is the key to success in every field so laying out your thoughts and feelings as you have is excellent, when it comes to feedback, consider everything then discard what doesn't fit.
To a fair degree I have followed his advice. Thats why I'm writing this on a 2021 14" M1 MBP bought in 2022. Before that I had a Late 2015 13" MBPr bought in 2018. I have never had less than 500GB storage despite the tempting price difference. I have never bought anything I could not afford to pay cash for.
So my view is paying more initially saves money in the long run, pretty much in line with my fathers advice and as others have already said it doesn't have to be this years model.
Personally I think for an 18 year old you are doing really well. I really like your post, good communication is the key to success in every field so laying out your thoughts and feelings as you have is excellent, when it comes to feedback, consider everything then discard what doesn't fit.
I've never made this mistake, even as a kid who wanted a job. The job has always been and always will be simply a means to an end. I like what I do well enough, but I remain employed because I want to eat and pay for the things I want/like/need.
Quite frequently my job gets in the way of all the other things I'd rather be doing.
The only Apple Product that I have ever paid full price for (and I don't regret it) is my 2019 iMac 27" 5k model, which was a joint birthday/Christmas gift to myself. I added two 16 GB sticks to boost the RAM, and I intend to hold onto it for as long as I can. I use it for music production, video editing, and any heavy-duty work I need to carry out.
With my M1 Macbook Pro, I bought it off my Mom for half price, since she didn't want it, and didn't want to lose all her money for it. Other than that, I wouldn't have bought it. It has 8GB of RAM and 500 GB of storage and have never felt the need to upgrade that (I use it for surfing the net, word processing, light editing tasks, and occasionally music production or video editing but not that often).
All my other Apple products have either been discounted, or bargain steals on eBay that I managed to pick up, and some of them I have upgraded myself, like my 2008 MacBook, or my iBook G4. I am starting a collection of sorts, and am also using the older ones to improve my skills in revamping/repairing Macs.
I don't care about having the latest and greatest Apple products every year and only upgrade when I have to. I am holding onto my iPad Air, iPhone, iMac, and probably the MacBook Pro for as long as I can. If it works, it works. No need to keep spending money for minimal upgrades every single year if you don't need to do that.
With my M1 Macbook Pro, I bought it off my Mom for half price, since she didn't want it, and didn't want to lose all her money for it. Other than that, I wouldn't have bought it. It has 8GB of RAM and 500 GB of storage and have never felt the need to upgrade that (I use it for surfing the net, word processing, light editing tasks, and occasionally music production or video editing but not that often).
All my other Apple products have either been discounted, or bargain steals on eBay that I managed to pick up, and some of them I have upgraded myself, like my 2008 MacBook, or my iBook G4. I am starting a collection of sorts, and am also using the older ones to improve my skills in revamping/repairing Macs.
I don't care about having the latest and greatest Apple products every year and only upgrade when I have to. I am holding onto my iPad Air, iPhone, iMac, and probably the MacBook Pro for as long as I can. If it works, it works. No need to keep spending money for minimal upgrades every single year if you don't need to do that.
I agree.
My grandfather died when I was 16. Lung cancer from smoking all his life.
My grandmother, married to the man I mention above died, some time in my early 30s. Lung cancer, second-hand smoke from living with my grandfather who ,with most of his children (except my mother), smoked all their lives. My grandmother was a nurse.
My aunt died when I was in my mid 20s. Lung cancer from smoking all her life.
My uncle, the youngest, died in his late 40s, early 50s I think. I was never given the reason but would not be surprised if it had been cancer.
I used to think this too - it wasn't until late 2016 I even had a Mac that could run the latest OS (things like OCLP didn't exist then), and a 2010 polycarbonate MacBook wasn't exactly glamorous, to say the least. 
Just keep using your gear the best you can, and start budgeting to move upward. There's usually decent points you can upgrade at for a good value, when the depreciation curve works in your favor. It is gonna be a little tricky with the upcoming retirement of all Intel Mac gear, but it'll still work out.
Just keep using your gear the best you can, and start budgeting to move upward. There's usually decent points you can upgrade at for a good value, when the depreciation curve works in your favor. It is gonna be a little tricky with the upcoming retirement of all Intel Mac gear, but it'll still work out.
Back in 2005-ish I was doing some intranet web design for the company I worked for with a PowerBook G4. It was plenty powerful for my needs at the time, but someone talked me into thinking I would be even more productive if I had more power, so I scraped together some cash and $4500 later I had a G5 and a cinema display. It was nicer to use, but I didn't get any additional work done. A year later the Intel switch happened and its value plummeted (I imagine a lot of people that bought the latest Mac Pro 2019 can relate).
If I had taken that $4500 and bought apple stock instead I would be $674,000 richer today. Instead that $4500 is probably in a landfill somewhere.
If you want my advice, try to stay frugal in your 20s, especially if what you have is not limiting you.
Unfortunately, it's too late to buy the EDU bundle, because I already bought all the apps separately (except for FCP) back in 9th grade.
I think this year, it's gonna be interesting to see where the limits of my gear come in (if there are even limits, I don't know at this point). I've already discovered the limits of my live gear—I'm working off a 5-year-old P-115, and a 10-year-old PSR-S750 (that I really need to sell because I never use it anymore). I'm already seeing the limits of those keyboards. And amps and speakers, too—while I have a quite decent set of studio monitors, they surely aren't that great, and my amp for live performances is just okay. But yet I manage with this older gear, and it works for the most part. But I also think that since I'm part of that "young musicians" group of people, of which there are quite a few, I get some gigs just because of that... but often times I'm their second choice, because their first choice is their classmates who attend the university. But that's okay, I'm not complaining here.
Although I'm gonna have to figure it out when I graduate college, because at this point, I don't know what's going to happen after that...
I also can't get any video editing work at the company I worked for a couple years back, because I don't have an Adobe CC subscription, and that job requires the employee to have their own subscription. The only reason why I was able to do it was that it was during the height of the COVID pandemic, and my school was giving students free Adobe. That was a lot of fun work, and I really wish I could get at it again, and that was the most money I've ever made... so that's another thing. And I know the owner of that company very well (he's good friends with my dad), and he told me last year he'd hire me if I had an Adobe subscription.
I also think I should start charging for gigs, because right now the venue doesn't have to pay me (and 99% of the time they don't). I'm not talking about outrageous hourly rates or anything, but at least I should charge something, given my experience as a live performer, too.
I have a friend, Alex, who I think is 21 or 22, so not that much older than me, and he started teaching music lessons while still in high school. I personally don't think I'm qualified to do that, but maybe teaching younger students would be nice.
Anyway, that's what I've gotta say after reading these replies.
EDIT: What I'm NOT going to do is get a "normal job" unless it's during the summer. I'm far too busy, and don't have the time to work a 20 hr/week part-time job like some of my classmates are.
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Thoughts? You're 18. That's my thoughts.
It might be impossible to see it now, but if you spend your time wisely, throughout your twenties you will become useful. People pay for useful. The more useful you are, the more people will pay. It is actually that simple. It's that simple because becoming useful is hard.
The majority of people don't become useful enough to earn good money when they're teenagers or in their early twenties, and that's why the kind of income where you can just buy the gear you need seems hard to understand.
If you are thinking "I have to get a job for X hours per week" you are getting it all wrong. Become useful, and people will be trying to pay you and you'll be turning some of them down. Understand and live this at 18, and the amount they will eventually be trying to pay you will be high.
Why does it matter? What matters is the end product, the result. What's the point of having a maxed out 10k setup if the content is garbage?
The beauty of the digital age is, it has democratized the tools for content creation. Even a $500 phone now can record high quality 4K footage, edit, and publish it on youtube. I have met many amateur musicians who are making great music just using their old beat-up smartphones. Creativity knows no bounds.
Here's an inspiration. A professional photographer can still create excellent work even if he only used a Lego toy camera.
Nah, chances are with all the passing around of Macs the PowerPC community does here - that G5 is sitting in my garage. And most likely, I'm using your Cinema Display right now.
Sweet. That will be $674,000, please. I prefer cash.Nah, chances are with all the passing around of Macs the PowerPC community does here - that G5 is sitting in my garage. And most likely, I'm using your Cinema Display right now.
Agree. I don't think it's a good idea for the rich guy in the previous post to have some 15 year rustbucket. That's a safety issue. You don't need a sports car, but keep a newer one in safe shape and keep it up on maintenance.
Body rust does not affect vehicle safety. I know a millionaire coworker (former coworker, really) who still drives an early '80s Ford Ranger pickup truck to work. He has a couple of Audi Cuatro, and a BWMs parked in his garage. Now, he performs the mechanical work of his the truck and cars.
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What kind of expensive stuff do you have on your mind? As a kid/18 year old, you are most entirely reliant on the income of your parents for expensive stuff.
The following is not intended as a I used to walk 5 miles to school in the snow kind of post. just to point out how different things are today.
At the end of WWII was the golden years for the US, our economy exploded, there were so many jobs the middle class became the norm, we were flush with money, and consumer goods and things were very affordable. Ever since 10-20 years after the war, our middle class started shrinking and has been doing so ever since. Unfortunately it would require a “forbidden” political discussion to talk/debate the reasons for this, but it happened. PM me if you want to hear more.
When I turned 18, 5 decades ago I was living in a middle class family in the DC suburbs. I had no “expensive stuff“, I had no ability to acquire expensive stuff, my summer job would not accomplish that, so everything in the familty was based on both my working parent‘s incomes. The most expensive single thing was a house that at $35k was a step up into a more fancy neighborhood, a custom house with a sunken living room and cathedral ceiling sitting on a 2 acre lot out in a small development surrounded by farms near Upper Marobo, from the average $15k house 2300SF split level new suburban house, we lived in prior which was not shabby by any means. My Dad’s income at the time was $12k per year. Yes, in 1968, a different scale.
My parents did buy a new car which was about $3k, a Plymouth Fury, and inside the most expensive thing was a color TV and a pool table in the basement. Mom also had China and Silver, but in the big scheme of expense, it’s difficult to tell where that was. When I turned 17 a significantly expensive Xmas gift was a 12 guage Ithaca pump shotgun for hunting, a major pass time out in the country. I want to say it cost about $130. 🤔
You will now be returned to your normally scheduled programming.
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Let me just say (not directing this towards any one person, just to the whole thread) - I am NOT complaining, I'm just stating my feelings about this and providing facts. So I hope no one is taking this as me complaining...What kind of expensive stuff do you have on your mind? As a kid/18 year old, you are most entirely reliant on the income of your parents for expensive stuff.
The following is not intended as a I used to walk 5 miles to school in the snow kind of post. just to point out how different things are today.
At the end of WWII was the golden years for the US, our economy exploded, there were so many jobs the middle class became the norm, we were flush with money, and consumer goods and things were very affordable. Ever since 10-20 years after the war, our middle class started shrinking and has been doing so ever since. Unfortunately it would require a “forbidden” political discussion to talk/debate the reasons for this, but it happened. PM me if you want to hear more.
When I turned 18, 5 decades ago I was living in a middle class family in the DC suburbs. I had no “expensive stuff“, I had no ability to acquire expensive stuff, my summer job would not accomplish that, so everything in the familty was based on both my working parent‘s incomes. The most expensive single thing was a house that at $35k was a step up into a more fancy neighborhood, a custom house with a sunken living room and cathedral ceiling sitting on a 2 acre lot out in a small development surrounded by farms near Upper Marobo, from the average $15k house 2300SF split level new suburban house, we lived in prior which was not shabby by any means. My Dad’s income at the time was $12k per year. Yes, in 1968, a different scale.
My parents did buy a new car which was about $3k, a Plymouth Fury, and inside the most expensive thing was a color TV and a pool table in the basement. Mom also had China and Silver, but in the big scheme of expense, it’s difficult to tell where that was. When I turned 17 a significantly expensive Xmas gift was a 12 guage Ithaca pump shotgun for hunting, a major pass time out in the country. I want to say it cost about $130. 🤔
You will now be returned to your normally scheduled programming.
I'm thinking about this as a musician, not as much from a computer context. Again, I am very inexperienced as a person, so I don't understand many of the things older people understand. I'm thinking about those people (who I know) that own maxed-out Nord Stage 3 keyboards (the 88-key ones with 2 synth engines). In fact, there's one guy who has a Stage 2 EX and a 3, an Electro 5 and 6D, a Piano 5, AND a Lead A1, which combined is at least a $25,000 investment. Why he needs all of these Nords, I have no idea... especially since the Stage 3 is basically all of those combined into one. Anyway, that's an extreme example, and that is just one person. Also those people that have maxed out MacBook Pros, too. Either they have very well-paying jobs, or they pay these things off over time, which I assume is something that happens quite frequently.
But I also think that while now is an excellent time to be a musician/performer (because of all the opportunities that you can get compared to 30 years ago even), it's also a really bad time to be a performer, because some of those good opportunities that existed 30 years ago don't anymore. I know this sounds confusing and like I just countered my previous statement, but let me explain:
30 years ago (the only reason why I know this is because I've talked to older musicians about this), it was pretty easy for fairly experienced musicians to get relatively high-paying steady gigs (i.e. at the same venue) 6 nights a week. Those gigs really don't exist anymore. No one that I know, even people in their 20s and 30s, have those opportunities. The only people I know who get steady gigs like that are in their 50s and 60s. But back 30 years ago, according to those people I've talked to, those steady gigs existed for people in their 20s and 30s.
And that's the part I'm afraid of... because being a musician primarily, the future is a little uncertain. Of course, I could land a producing job, which would be awesome, but getting onto the music scene in a completely different city potentially, being as young as I am, is gonna be really hard. It took me 5 years to really get onto the scene here in town. It took John (just using his first name here for privacy sake) who is an AMAZING pianist (and my teacher), he taught for 20 years at Berklee, mind you... it took him only a month, maybe less, to get onto the scene after moving here. But that all has to do with the fact that he's in his 50s, a VERY experienced player, taught at Berklee, went to Cornell and NEC, and has been teaching for 30 years. I haven't done that. Again, I'm not complaining, I'm just stating facts.
Like I mentioned earlier, I think charging for gigs, and maybe teaching a little bit is going to get me a long way, but so far, since I don't work 20 hours a week like 90% of my classmates do, I don't have much money to afford the things that they can afford. But I think that's also part of being a musician—you just don't make much money unless you're well known. I guess I could say I'm well-known here, but not enough to be competing against most other people in their 50s and 60s like others my age are doing. I guess there are a few exceptions to that, but for the most part, I'm kind of under the radar a little bit, not a lot, but a little bit. Not to be critical or anything, but I also think that playing with this super inexperienced vocalist for 8 months made my musicianship go downhill. And I think it also has to do with the fact that I'm not 21 and so I'm not legally allowed to play at bars like many people do.
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say here. I know I haven't been super great at expressing myself in this thread, but let me know what you think. What I'm trying to say is super hard to explain. I've talked to people about this very topic recently, so I can explain it in words, but not very well in writing.
EDIT: I know this is a BIG generalization/assumption, but just in thinking about this, at least where I live, it seems as if you have to be at least 40 years old to make a living off of performing and teaching. I mean of course, you could be a 40 year old inexperienced player, of which there are plenty, but I'm talking about 20 year old experienced vs. 40 year old experienced... the 40 year olds get all the gigs.
EDIT #2: I know, people are gonna reply to this and say, "There are other ways to make money other than playing gigs and teaching." I know that, but that's something I haven't figured out yet.
I'm just concerned about my ability to, after college, find a well-paying, suitable job.
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The music industry in itself has changed significantly, as has the entertainment industry as a whole. Expectations are different now. In earlier years in the music industry, for instance, a vocalist could simply be that: a good vocalist who sang whatever kind of repertoire he or she sang very well, and no one expected him or her to also be a songwriter on top of that. Now the demand seems to be that those who want to make a noticeable stir in the music industry not only have to have the vocal chops they also need to be able to write music, play at least one or two instruments, know how to promote him- or herself in social media, etc., etc.
And, yes, as far as musicians go, while most of the instruments themselves have not changed, the approach to them has, with different expectations than there were even thirty years ago, and of course a strong familiarity with/knowledge of the technicalities of getting the most out of electronic instruments, plus being able to read music and deal with handling music on electronic equipment, the computer, etc., not to mention songwriting and composition as well....
Right now it's pretty hard to predict what the music industry is going to look like in five years from now. Best way to approach this is to just keep moving forward in whatever way you can which helps you continue to develop and improve your skills.
As for college: I am guessing that you may be hoping/planning to attend a music college or conservatory? The US has several very good, well-known ones. There you will also learn a lot about not just playing music or writing music but also how to deal with it to promote it and your own particular skills. Rather than worrying NOW about finding, being hired for and keeping "a well-paying, suitable job," try and put more of your energy and excitement into what you will be able to learn over the next several years in the college/conservatory/music school which you are able to attend.
And, yes, as far as musicians go, while most of the instruments themselves have not changed, the approach to them has, with different expectations than there were even thirty years ago, and of course a strong familiarity with/knowledge of the technicalities of getting the most out of electronic instruments, plus being able to read music and deal with handling music on electronic equipment, the computer, etc., not to mention songwriting and composition as well....
Right now it's pretty hard to predict what the music industry is going to look like in five years from now. Best way to approach this is to just keep moving forward in whatever way you can which helps you continue to develop and improve your skills.
As for college: I am guessing that you may be hoping/planning to attend a music college or conservatory? The US has several very good, well-known ones. There you will also learn a lot about not just playing music or writing music but also how to deal with it to promote it and your own particular skills. Rather than worrying NOW about finding, being hired for and keeping "a well-paying, suitable job," try and put more of your energy and excitement into what you will be able to learn over the next several years in the college/conservatory/music school which you are able to attend.
I’m no expert, but my impression is that the music industry can be rocky, especially to hit it big, but dedication might make all the difference and if you love it, chase it with dedication! And remember being nice to everyone, at least most, might pay off in the future. Just watched Knight’s Tale and being nice to the incognito prince paid off big time!
I agree with everything you're saying, and you make very good points!
- Musicians need to also know how to compose and produce, it's just a requirement in this day and age
- Reading music is super important. I say that as someone who's not a great reader, but I've really devoted a lot of time to get better at it, because it's just another skill that's absolutely necessary.
- No one can predict the future obviously, but we can all make assumptions and speculate, some of which are accurate.
- Yes, I'm only applying to conservatories and colleges with acclaimed jazz programs. I'm not one to be forced to play classical like they require at some schools. I get it, it's important, but I have no classical training, and no desire to become a classical pianist. So that's why my criteria is so specific.
EDIT: File attached, just so you get an idea about how bad the piano in the practice room was. Like that really says something about the effort/care (or lack thereof) that the university is putting into its instruments.
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The music industry is incredibly competitive, you are absolutely right! But if you're multi-talented, it's easier to get going. For me, when I was 11 or 12, just getting onto the scene was tricky, but it happened actually very quickly. However, like I said before, it's taken me almost 6 years to get to where I am today, which is great, and I'm proud of all that I've accomplished, but I still think that just relying on performing is a huge risk. But I'm REALLY glad I've done some producing and film composing, because that's yet another thing. And video production, too—but I already explained that in an earlier post, and IMO it's not worth repeating... you get my point though.I’m no expert, but my impression is that the music industry can be rocky, especially to hit it big, but dedication might make all the difference and if you love it, chase it with dedication! And remember being nice to everyone, at least most, might pay off in the future. Just watched Knight’s Tale and being nice to the incognito prince paid off big time!
And of course, being nice is super important, too. And saying "yes" to almost all opportunities, I've found, has gotten me a long way!
But I just need to remember to stop trying to compare myself to those people in their 40s-60s, even those in their 30s, it isn't helping me I don't think...
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