How can people afford such expensive stuff?

[edubfromktown]

Live within your means and don't worry about what other people buy. Life is too short for being worried about what others think of you. Self worth is not tied to material objects.

I chose to live beneath my means for many years and was also ultra aggressive negotiating compensation for new (IT technology) job opportunities and follow-on increases with the organizations where I've worked. So many of my colleagues just rolled over like a puppy dog and took whatever scraps were thrown their way for a job offer, raises, etc. Many of them were "keeping up with the Jones", in debt on credit cards, new car loans, extravagant vacations, ...

Even with staying further ahead financially (always zero debt other than the mortgage on my house), I still don't go way overboard on things. Bought my first ever non-refurb Mac when the Studio Base Max came out and sold my M1 Mini within a few weeks to maximize what I could get for it to offset the added expense.

 

[Vref]

I work with an eccentric millionaire.. he lIves in an old average house and has a 15 year old vow transporter filled with rust and over 300k miles..

he Lives like he’s on minimum wage and just invests everything back into his company to get where he is..

if I had my time again, I’d follow his motto. And like others have said… you’re only 18 it will come in time

I wouldn’t

What a scam, he put in crazy work to make that money, but lives like he’s broke, that’s not winning

There is a happy middle ground between not being over your means, and making good money but living like a bum


You can’t take it with you and no one makes it out alive

 

[rm5]

The other thing I should add is that Berklee (College of Music) has an abysmal graduation rate—I believe it's like 60% or something. I know multiple people who go there, and they say the whole place is a false narrative, that it's not what it used to be. They're accepting more and more inexperienced musicians and not giving them scholarships, which really makes me think that all they care about is money and not having really good musicians go there. I want to be challenged wherever I decide to go. I'm sure that any place will be challenging, which is good, but Berklee seems to be pretty low on the list of challenging/rigorous institutions, at least that I've applied to.

I'm not trying to hate on Berklee or anything, but I honestly think what I've said is true. The good thing about Berklee is that they have a MUCH more expansive curriculum and course offerings compared to other places I've applied to. They offer courses not only in jazz, but also in production and film composing, which is something I'm also interested in, and enjoy doing.

The reason for Berklee's low graduation rate (it seems to me, from what I've read), is related to:

• The people who get "big breaks" in New York, LA, etc. who leave and don't come back
• The people who just hate the place so much they leave
• The people who love it, but it's just not a good fit for them, because of its large student body and somewhat poor infrastructure

If anyone is familiar with this and I'm actually wrong, please let me know, but most of this information is from people I know who have gone there, or are currently attending.

So that's a more immediate concern I suppose, but I'm gonna leave that one to the side for a couple more months until I have to commit somewhere...

 

[Vref]

The other thing I should add is that Berklee (College of Music) has an abysmal graduation rate—I believe it's like 60% or something. I know multiple people who go there, and they say the whole place is a false narrative, that it's not what it used to be. They're accepting more and more inexperienced musicians and not giving them scholarships, which really makes me think that all they care about is money and not having really good musicians go there. I want to be challenged wherever I decide to go. I'm sure that any place will be challenging, which is good, but Berklee seems to be pretty low on the list of challenging/rigorous institutions, at least that I've applied to.

I'm not trying to hate on Berklee or anything, but I honestly think what I've said is true. The good thing about Berklee is that they have a MUCH more expansive curriculum and course offerings compared to other places I've applied to. They offer courses not only in jazz, but also in production and film composing, which is something I'm also interested in, and enjoy doing.

The reason for Berklee's low graduation rate (it seems to me, from what I've read), is related to:

• The people who get "big breaks" in New York, LA, etc. who leave and don't come back
• The people who just hate the place so much they leave
• The people who love it, but it's just not a good fit for them, because of its large student body and somewhat poor infrastructure

If anyone is familiar with this and I'm actually wrong, please let me know, but most of this information is from people I know who have gone there, or are currently attending.

So that's a more immediate concern I suppose, but I'm gonna leave that one to the side for a couple more months until I have to commit somewhere...

Where did all your favorite artists go to school?


Some of my favorite wait staff has masters level arts degrees, I’m not sure it helped them pour a beer, but I did tip well to try to help with their “education” debt

 

[rm5]

Where did all your favorite artists go to school?


Some of my favorite wait staff has masters level arts degrees, I’m not sure it helped them pour a beer, but I did tip well to try to help with their “education” debt

I actually don't know, and I should be researching that. I know Brad Mehldau went to the New School, and Emmet Cohen went to the University of Miami I think. I mean those are just two people. But god, I'm glad I didn't apply to a scam school like Full Sail, that would be a very bad outcome!

 

[JamesMay82]

I wouldn’t

What a scam, he put in crazy work to make that money, but lives like he’s broke, that’s not winning

There is a happy middle ground between not being over your means, and making good money but living like a bum


You can’t take it with you and no one makes it out alive

I’d agree. The day to day is minimum wage but do go on 5 * vacations.

I had this chat with him today about enjoying life more and he says he does it so his kids and future grandkids will have the freedom not to work if they choose to or do a job they love but perhaps doesn’t pay well.

he’s worth like 20 million and also gets about 30k monthly rental income from his investments so he they quite possibly have generational wealth if they are careful with it

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I actually don't know, and I should be researching that. I know Brad Mehldau went to the New School, and Emmet Cohen went to the University of Miami I think. I mean those are just two people. But god, I'm glad I didn't apply to a scam school like Full Sail, that would be a very bad outcome!

I'm not from the United States - which has a very different model for almost everything - but I do love the music, scholarship, sheer talent, and intellectual, scholastic and musical range of Brandon Acker who hails from the US.

I watched a video of his, and must say that I found his musical journey fascinating. You might find him of interest.

 

[max2]

I love watching people's music career that do well or even just decently well.

Guess that why I love Britain's Got Talent. Sorry. I know it is stupid.

No I do not have any music talent lol. Even if I did I doubt I would go for it. No offense.

I am happy for people who do though.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I wouldn’t

What a scam, he put in crazy work to make that money, but lives like he’s broke, that’s not winning

There is a happy middle ground between not being over your means, and making good money but living like a bum


You can’t take it with you and no one makes it out alive

All that matters is how he feels about the way he lives. Lots of people live poor and leave behind a ton of money while other poor people don't. What is more important is good health and and being pleased with one's life, regardless if one is rich or not.

 

[MrCheeto]

I think I could help by somewhat clearing up the "you're 18" line that's been repeated here.

It's easy when you're young to feel like everybody is dismissing your opinions or concerns but I've learned that what's really meant to be said (usually, but by far not always) is that you have a long way to go before you start to realize there's nothing to worry about. I remember when I was in high-school I felt like everything was either the end of the world or the most important thing in the world. Now that I look back, I wish I spent more time effing with teachers, sleeping, and recklessly indulging in the bad influences. Not drugs or drink, obviously, (that stuff is the father of all cringe) but just going more places with more people and caring less about making mistakes.

From wherever you are now, you will not believe what has happened looking at the next ten, five, or even two-years.

Live a little. I've never been good friends with somebody that didn't have some criminal record 😉 Ok literally ONE but she's an ex-cop and her sister's on parole 😆

 

[Clix Pix]

Back in the day, someone could pick up a guitar and start strumming and humming and developing a song....without ever being able to read music. Doesn't happen that way any more.

I've always heard that Berklee is the place to go if one is interested particularly in jazz, and that if one is more oriented towards classical music, that Juilliard was the spot for them. I think the conservatory in Philadelphia (I forget its name) is also more focused on classical music, training their students to sing opera. NYU has a good music school, too, and I think it is one which appeals to those who are interested in jazz and contemporary music. So, yes, it makes sense to home in on a particular school or several schools when one is specifically interested in one or two genres of music as opposed to others.

There are some well-known musicians who actually cannot read music but they've succeeded anyway, just as there are musicians who never set foot in a conservatory or music college but who are famous around the world. I have the distinct impression that for some very successful musicians it has taken more than just knowledge and skills when it comes to playing an instrument or singing with perfect pitch, or the ability to read music.....there is also that somewhat intangible "it" factor which comes into play, too....that magical something which instantly attracts an audience of listeners to a musician, and that has nothing to do with the perfection or imperfection of his or her playing/singing/ability to put on a good visual and aural show. As well, there's, yes, also the hard work behind this and the persistence to keep going regardless of the obstacles thrown in the way, the "fire in the belly," so to speak, the passion to keep pressing forward with music as it is one's whole reason for being.....AND the all-too rare but magical happenstance of great timing, when everything somehow just falls into place.....

 

[Mousse]

EDIT: I know this is a BIG generalization/assumption, but just in thinking about this, at least where I live, it seems as if you have to be at least 40 years old to make a living off of performing and teaching. I mean of course, you could be a 40 year old inexperienced player, of which there are plenty, but I'm talking about 20 year old experienced vs. 40 year old experienced... the 40 year olds get all the gigs.

You have to be 14 or 16--something about child labor law--to work a gig.

Anyhow, you are right that talent & skill isn't tied to age. Mozart composed music at 5 years old and played at an even younger age.

Sounds like the reason the older musician are getting jobs is because they're a known quality. Young musician are an unknown and have to prove themselves before they're trusted.

EDIT #2: I know, people are gonna reply to this and say, "There are other ways to make money other than playing gigs and teaching." I know that, but that's something I haven't figured out yet.

I'm just concerned about my ability to, after college, find a well-paying, suitable job.

My advice is that you find a job related to the music industry, but not be a musician as your main job.

I love photography, but have turned down job offers because I didn't want to be a photographer. If it becomes my job, all the joy I get out of it would dry up in a few years. I have worked as a 2nd shooter at several wedding. I was helping out a buddy whose assistant couldn't work.🤒

 

[Apple fanboy]

All that matters is how he feels about the way he lives. Lots of people live poor and leave behind a ton of money while other poor people don't. What is more important is good health and and being pleased with one's life, regardless if one is rich or not.

Absolutely. Money does not necessarily make you happy.
Plenty of rich people are miserable. Plenty of poor people are content.

 

[rm5]

@Mousse Ive already established myself as a musician, and people know that I am a musician. I’ve done plenty to “get myself out there” but when people offer me a gig, they often don’t follow through with it, and so I don’t end up making any money. It’s a bit frustrating.

 

[Lihp8270]

Marketing is why you feel like this. All the articles etc. All with the intention to make a sale to people with new access to lines of credit they previously didn’t have.

Clients aren’t going to hire you based on equipment (unless you’re renting onto a studio) but on the work you produce.

 

[rm5]

Marketing is why you feel like this. All the articles etc. All with the intention to make a sale to people with new access to lines of credit they previously didn’t have.

Clients aren’t going to hire you based on equipment (unless you’re renting onto a studio) but on the work you produce.

Very true, and something I always forget, because I see that happening more than people “accepting” someone’s gear as what it is.

I’ve recorded stuff to be published and played in the radio—and sometimes the producer likes it, but most of the time, they suggest I buy better equipment. I’ve had this happen on several occasions. But it takes them awhile to understand that I am still 18 and not a professional producer, but I am a professional musician, that I can say…

Edit: sometimes producing something good means having good equipment. I’ve noticed this when writing film scores especially.

 

[KaliYoni]

@Mousse Ive already established myself as a musician, and people know that I am a musician. I’ve done plenty to “get myself out there” but when people offer me a gig, they often don’t follow through with it, and so I don’t end up making any money. It’s a bit frustrating.

In a previous part of my career, I spent several years working as a booker and a promoter at a place that put on shows by international touring acts, regional acts, and hyper-local acts. So, your experience, unfortunately, just makes me want to say, “Welcome to the music business.”

It’s behaviors like you describe which led me to focus on other fields.

 

[Lihp8270]

Very true, and something I always forget, because I see that happening more than people “accepting” someone’s gear as what it is.

I’ve recorded stuff to be published and played in the radio—and sometimes the producer likes it, but most of the time, they suggest I buy better equipment. I’ve had this happen on several occasions. But it takes them awhile to understand that I am still 18 and not a professional producer, but I am a professional musician, that I can say…

Edit: sometimes producing something good means having good equipment. I’ve noticed this when writing film scores especially.

In that case the sensible thing is when they like it, and their only complaint is the gear.

You get them to sign a contract paying you if it’s done with better gear. And you hire what you need for the job.

In a previous life as a photographer I had to do similar many times.

There was often shoots where my gear simply wouldn’t work, but required equipment I couldn’t afford, or could afford but couldn’t justify based on usage expectations. So it just went on hire.

 

[rm5]

I just thought I'd add something from what I said earlier about only people in their 40s or older getting gigs: it's not just me that has this "problem." There are people who are my age who also are running into this. However, what confuses me is the fact that some of these musicians are pretty inexperienced, and it seems to me that they need a little more experience at "less prestigious" venues—that's just my opinion.

So here's where I get stuck:

1. People know me—it's not like no one knows who I am or anything—but they just don't offer me the gig, for any number of reasons. I get it, this shouldn't be a big deal when you have gigs every night, but obviously, I don't.
2. It would be nearly impossible for me at this point to try to gain teaching ground, because there are SO MANY good musicians that I'm already competing against who also teach... so everyone obviously (myself included) has flocked to them.

So because of this, I think it's gonna take several years, unfortunately, for me to actually gain enough ground to "be successful." And then if/when I live in another city, I'm gonna have to start all over again—which is the part I'm really worried about.

One person I talked to the other day suggested to get a stable job, that I look into IT (because of my love for computers), but that also seems to me like a pretty competitive industry (although I know nothing about it). Not right now, but in the near future, I need to figure out what industry(ies) are easy to get into and that pay well.

Maybe I'm thinking about this in the wrong way, I don't know. Seems like I've been thinking about everything in teh wrong way since I've posted this thread, but again, what do I know...

 

[Clix Pix]

Have you ever thought about meeting with a therapist and talking out some of these concerns with him or her? That might prove to be very valuable to you.

 

[rm5]

In that case the sensible thing is when they like it, and their only complaint is the gear.

You get them to sign a contract paying you if it’s done with better gear. And you hire what you need for the job.

In a previous life as a photographer I had to do similar many times.

There was often shoots where my gear simply wouldn’t work, but required equipment I couldn’t afford, or could afford but couldn’t justify based on usage expectations. So it just went on hire.

That's the other thing I need to be aware of, is creating a sensible contract for both parties. Because here's how it normally goes with the "good people" vs. the "difficult people"—good meaning people who respect your time, easy to work with, etc., difficult meaning people who don't care/don't respect your time, and hard to work with...

The "good people":

1. They contact me about the project, I (usually) oblige to it
2. They send me all assets and information on time and are very respectful in the process
3. I complete all the required work before handing them a final product

Pretty easy, right? Well this is how it always goes with the "difficult people":

1. They contact me about the project, same thing, I usually oblige
2. They send me everything the night before it's due—and of course, I can't do it in time
3. AFTER I COMPLETE THE PROJECT and hand them a final result, they impose extra demands, at which point my parents have to step in and say "enough," because apparently, my voice is "too weak" (I actually don't think so, but it's happened a few times where they listen to my parents, but not me)

 

[rm5]

Have you ever thought about meeting with a therapist and talking out some of these concerns with him or her? That might prove to be very valuable to you.

No, I haven't considered that—and I'm sure it would be valuable. I've talked to some of my teachers, and of course, my parents about this, and they've all offered great advice... but the advantage of this forum I think is that everyone is working in different industries, and so I can get multiple perspectives, you know what I mean?

 

[Macky-Mac]

Very true, and something I always forget, because I see that happening more than people “accepting” someone’s gear as what it is.

I’ve recorded stuff to be published and played in the radio—and sometimes the producer likes it, but most of the time, they suggest I buy better equipment. I’ve had this happen on several occasions. But it takes them awhile to understand that I am still 18 and not a professional producer, but I am a professional musician, that I can say…

Edit: sometimes producing something good means having good equipment. I’ve noticed this when writing film scores especially.

If people are already telling you that you need better gear.....then you're already past the point where you do indeed need better gear.

The professional world does actually have quality standards. For age 14 to 18, you can get away with a bit of the "I'm just a kid" excuse, but there's something of an age limit to that.

If you want to continue doing technical production, then you need to start looking for a way to have better resources.......rented equipment, used equipment, borrowed equipment......you don't have to immediately run out and buy a vast amount of pricey gear, but you do need to start improving your product.

But at 18, you're now doing the age appropriate thing of trying to figure out what direction you want to take.....you still have plenty of time to figure things out.

 

[rm5]

The professional world does actually have quality standards. For age 14 to 18, you can get away with a bit of the "I'm just a kid" excuse, but there's something of an age limit to that.

Absolutely!! Couldn't agree more. I still think I'm on the VERY EDGE of being able to use this excuse, but as per my first post, I think it's starting to "dry out."

If you want to continue doing technical production, then you need to start looking for a way to have better resources.......rented equipment, used equipment, borrowed equipment......you don't have to immediately run out and buy a vast amount of pricey gear, but you do need to start improving your product.

I remember when I was 13 in 2018, I bought an old Roland VS-2000CD. I don't know if you know anything about recording equipment, but at this point, that's a 21-year-old piece of gear. I remember taking a recording class (actually multiple) the following year, and they used Logic Pro, and at that point I just bought the DAW, because that's what was (and still is) being used. So I have Logic and a (sort of) powerful Mac, but along with that comes speakers (which I have some decent studio monitors), and the most expensive part of it all—sample libraries. Of course, I've built up my small collection over time, as I'm sure many people do. Those aren't something you can rent, unfortunately—because they're pieces of software.

And then, it all spirals outward, if you know what I mean, because 16 GB of RAM was what was available at the time (when the M1 first came out), and I do run into limitations with that. But no way in hell am I paying $400 for 32 GB of RAM unless I absolutely have to, which I don't... and also I don't have the money for an M2 Pro/Max MBP or a Mac Studio, so I have to use this god-awful 5,1 Mac Pro that has 32 GB of slow RAM... you see what I mean?

And it all comes from not having a job IMO.

 

[Mousse]

@Mousse Ive already established myself as a musician, and people know that I am a musician. I’ve done plenty to “get myself out there” but when people offer me a gig, they often don’t follow through with it, and so I don’t end up making any money. It’s a bit frustrating.

Ouch. Sounds like the age old problem artists everywhere deal with: people wanting your talent for free. They want you to perform, but as soon as you mention compensation, they think getting experience or exposure is compensation enough. They can't pull that BS with older, established musician.

I've had my share of people wanting me to photograph them for free. Hail no! As I mentioned before, I was a second photographer at several wedding. They paid for transportation and lodging, so it was like a mini vacation. Going to Hawaii on someone else's dime? Oh hail yeah, I'll be your second shooter.