How come, everyone is willing to compromise just because of the excitement of a new product?

[Nacho98]

Almost every person in that thread about the popping who said they didn't hear it, eventually heard it under the right repro circumstances. Maybe give it a good go to try and get it.

Why? Why would I go out of my way (more than I already have) to test for a software/driver bug that is nonconsequential and going to get fixed soon anyway?

Even if I did have it, I wouldn't care since it's just software...and it'll get fixed.

I mean, should people also go find every possible way to reproduce every tiny software bug in Catalina so they can use a fixable software bug to complain about a hardware release? That's literally what people are doing with this popping issue.

 

[iemcj]

Tried sending a pm but you have it set that other users can't do that

On a screen all light is made by blue, green, and red lights. If you have all the pixels on, it'll make a white color.If you want to make the color yellow, then the red and green lights stay bright and the blue one dims. If you want to make the color purple, the green one dims and the red and blue stay bright.

When color is "made" there will be less total light output. When the night shift and true tone are on, what's happening is it's automatically shifting the colors around. So by it's very nature it'll dim the screen a bit. Depending on the situation it might be no change or it might be 10% less total lumens outputted. Nightshift will do this even more (though in that situation, you don't need anywhere near 500 nits anyway as you're not needing to overpower bright lighting).

Hope this helps!

 

[DanMan619]

they definitely have experienced it because it shows up in final cut and they all harp night and day about video editing as if its the pinnacle of computing. and yet they dont mention it. which leads me to believe apple really pays them and thus none of their "reviews" can be based on any merit

I think you're wrong. If Apple was really that sensitive about Youtube reviewers saying bad stuff, no one would be getting review units because literally every single reviewer has been harping on Apple about the keyboards for the last 3 damn years. Just because reviewers don't scream about the same issues you may have with a product doesn't automatically mean everyone's a paid off shill. The bigger issue is that reviewers often don't spend enough time with a product to find those issues. Also their use cases may not make those issues apparent in the time they have with their review units. Unless you're sitting in a quiet room, how would you hear coil whine? Youtube reviewers are usually working with other people in a room giving and taking verbal directions and are focused on making a video. When they are doing video editing tests, they are focused on testing the CPU/GPU. It's more than understandable that a small popping sound that only happens in certain scenarios would get missed. Take off the tinfoil hat, it's not some conspiracy.

I've noticed a huge trend the last few years where people only seem to trust a review if the review is negative and that just doesn't make any sense. The reason is because the vast majority of products are properly good enough with minor, at worst, flaws. Some of those flaws don't even affect most people unless they go looking for said flaw like some of the people here often do. Not saying that gives Apple the ok to get away with making those mistakes in their products, i'm just saying there's a multitude of other reasons for it to get missed by reviewers that are far more realistic, but everyone likes to just jump to the "all reviewers are paid off!" crap. I think those reviewers just know the difference between an actual glaring issue, like the keyboard problems of the past, versus something that is just nitpicking on an otherwise very solid device. Whereas some people seem to just want to take those nitpicks and want to make it into the next ____-gate.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I've noticed a huge trend the last few years where people only seem to trust a review if the review is negative and that just doesn't make any sense

Sorry.

I guess we are all still pained by three years of denial about the keyboards on this forum and many other review outlets.

The other thing is that people that are big Apple fans have a tendency to overlook problems and consider them “small issues” and/or “not deal breakers”…

...But if those exact same problems appeared on a Windows machine everyone would circle around and light a torch underneath that product and company.

I’m OK with some standards and rules if people on both sides would actually adhere to them.

Apple fans are notorious for exceptional double standards that skew in Apples favor

 

[Glenny2lappies]

And we still don't have our beloved Magsafe back. Plugging in those horrrid USB-C connectorS is so naff compared with the reassuring click as the Magsafe pulls itself home.

 

[impulse462]

I think you're wrong. If Apple was really that sensitive about Youtube reviewers saying bad stuff, no one would be getting review units because literally every single reviewer has been harping on Apple about the keyboards for the last 3 damn years. Just because reviewers don't scream about the same issues you may have with a product doesn't automatically mean everyone's a paid off shill. The bigger issue is that reviewers often don't spend enough time with a product to find those issues. Also their use cases may not make those issues apparent in the time they have with their review units. Unless you're sitting in a quiet room, how would you hear coil whine? Youtube reviewers are usually working with other people in a room giving and taking verbal directions and are focused on making a video. When they are doing video editing tests, they are focused on testing the CPU/GPU. It's more than understandable that a small popping sound that only happens in certain scenarios would get missed. Take off the tinfoil hat, it's not some conspiracy.

I've noticed a huge trend the last few years where people only seem to trust a review if the review is negative and that just doesn't make any sense. The reason is because the vast majority of products are properly good enough with minor, at worst, flaws. Some of those flaws don't even affect most people unless they go looking for said flaw like some of the people here often do. Not saying that gives Apple the ok to get away with making those mistakes in their products, i'm just saying there's a multitude of other reasons for it to get missed by reviewers that are far more realistic, but everyone likes to just jump to the "all reviewers are paid off!" crap. I think those reviewers just know the difference between an actual glaring issue, like the keyboard problems of the past, versus something that is just nitpicking on an otherwise very solid device. Whereas some people seem to just want to take those nitpicks and want to make it into the next ____-gate.

I agree with some of your points about reviewers being in noisy rooms, but overall you're way off dude.

I am using my laptop in a pretty normal situation...in an apartment room in a major city with roommates. I didn't look for any problem. Literally the first thing I heard when i booted up this computer, sitting at a desk normally, was coil whine.

As for missing the popping noise...while your premise maybe valid theoretically, regarding YOUTUBERs, I find it very hard to believe that NO youtuber, who spends all their time on final cut pro and watching youtube (where this problem is most common) heard anything. I literally heard it the first time I opened youtube and given the poll in the cracking/popping sound sitting at 75-80% (albeit a skewed population), it isn't a nitpick.

I've had 15" macbook pros since 2008 and infact i've never had any of the GPU issues, flexgate, or whatever. in fact, i never had a problem with my 2017 15" keyboard other than the fact that someone who clearly doesn't type of a living designed it and forced it on me and it felt like ****.

also while i'm not calling you gullible, i suggest people stop taking these "reviews" seriously because they aren't that. no one says anything critical, and no product is perfect. couple this fact with everyone says the exact same points, its obvious they are in cahoots with apple. theres nothing wrong with that, it just means their "review" is meaningless and theyre just advertising mouthpieces

 

[RedTheReader]

Sure, I misspoke. But you'll know for sure that if you use something like flux or truetone and it's warmer, the display is going to be perceived as less bright. If you turn it off it's perceived as brighter, depending on how aggressive their environment is wrt truetone. Just flipping it on and off in a bright tungsten environment yields a warmer tone for me. Since it's noticeably less blue, I'm perceiving it as less bright. Absolutely it doesnt mean the display is actually less bright, but it will appear less intense, which can be interpreted as brightness, or "more dim" as was described.

Either way they're complaining that turning the feature off that will affect that sort of thing is a nuisance when they don't want that feature. That's like saying "why should i not use an internet browser that comes with this expensive laptop if i dont use the internet"

Just... don't use it. It's not for you then.

Ahhhhhhhh, fair enough. I didn't know adjusting white point had that effect. I don't, however, think that it undermines the brightness problems. Sure, True Tone (and similar 3rd party applications) can make the display appear dimmer in certain environments, but wouldn't that have been the case since 2018, when Apple incorporated it into the MacBook Pro? I'm assuming all the people who've complained of lower brightness aren't using their display in significantly different environments. Why would they be perceiving lower brightness with True Tone on now than they did with True Tone on then?

The screen's still dimmer. And while (after hearing your white point explanation) I'm sure that True Tone would take the screen a couple of perceived nits down anyway, but it now takes it down a couple extra nits than it used to. Enough to bother people.

With your comparison, you make it sound like True Tone takes down perceived brightness to an extremely low level, now matter how bright the display actually is. This doesn't make sense. If you want to overcome the effect of something that makes the display seem dim (like strobing on gaming displays), the solution is to make the base brightness HIGHER, not lower.

 

[LuciusWrong]

So on a $2500-4000 laptop, we are ok with "turn off a feature" (TrueTone) to fix the brightness, hoping the "popping noise" is a software issue they can fix and the "coil noise" we just live with?

Turning off "true tone" is the first thing I would do....the same way the first "mod" I did to my car is unplugging the fake engine noise speaker thing that is supposed to make the car sound more "sporty" in sport mode...
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Luckily the SSD's aren't soldered in or anything crazy, so we are free to swap in a different NVMe drive if we'd like!

6+ year old macbook here, with removable SSD...and how many times has it been removed? Once! Why did I remove it? I guess I was just flexing.

 

[covedrop]

That may be, but if you don't hear it in regular daily use and have to create a circumstance in order to hear it then it really isn't something you should be concerned over in my opinion.

Sure, unless those circumstances are skipping time in YouTube, closing Quicktime while something is playing, Logic presenting you with rhythmic crackling, FCPX popping as you scrub a clip... Pretty common activities. Some devices present lower than others, it seems to be related to volume level, maybe you have an application open that happens to mask the issue (there are workarounds like leaving Quicktime ready to record, having Logic open with a 512+ buffer size) - the users report that even though they didn't hear it before, once they did hear it, they always noticed it.

So... definitely something to be concerned about.
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Ahhhhhhhh, fair enough. I didn't know adjusting white point had that effect. I don't, however, think that it undermines the brightness problems. Sure, True Tone (and similar 3rd party applications) can make the display appear dimmer in certain environments, but wouldn't that have been the case since 2018, when Apple incorporated it into the MacBook Pro? I'm assuming all the people who've complained of lower brightness aren't using their display in significantly different environments. Why would they be perceiving lower brightness with True Tone on now than they did with True Tone on then?

The screen's still dimmer. And while (after hearing your white point explanation) I'm sure that True Tone would take the screen a couple of perceived nits down anyway, but it now takes it down a couple extra nits than it used to. Enough to bother people.

With your comparison, you make it sound like True Tone takes down perceived brightness to an extremely low level, now matter how bright the display actually is. This doesn't make sense. If you want to overcome the effect of something that makes the display seem dim (like strobing on gaming displays), the solution is to make the base brightness HIGHER, not lower.

Yeah, I was moreso commenting on how the user was complaining about having to turn off a feature that is meant to adjust the display in ways that could make it appear dimmer in order to have it brighter. If the display is dimmer than your liking regardless, that's too subjective for me to comment on apart from if it's bad enough, unfortunately maybe the laptop isn't for them this time. However relating what is essentially an optional QoL feature and having to disable it to the price of the laptop seems like a non-sequitur.
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Why? Why would I go out of my way (more than I already have) to test for a software/driver bug that is nonconsequential and going to get fixed soon anyway?

Even if I did have it, I wouldn't care since it's just software...and it'll get fixed.

I mean, should people also go find every possible way to reproduce every tiny software bug in Catalina so they can use a fixable software bug to complain about a hardware release? That's literally what people are doing with this popping issue.

No, but there is obviously a substantial enough amount of people reporting the issue, so your help in identifying any patterns wrt working units vs units presenting the issue is valuable to determine possible conclusions, since the most any of us are getting from Apple is "engineers are working on a solution as we speak".

Any data is good data, and when I called Apple support, the information gathered by that thread helped me communicate with him so he had a good case to take to the engineers.

Don't have any clue why you had to use such a patronizing tone.

 

[RedTheReader]

I guess we are all still pained by three years of denial about the keyboards…

I'm sure you're right about this, but I'd like to ask that no one here mistakes personal preference for denial. I like the Butterfly board. Like, I really like the board, and find that I dislike the Magic Keyboard on the new 16" MacBook Pro in comparison. I've been using these Butterfly boards since 2017 (over 2 years now) and I haven't had a single issue with them, even though my current machine stays open docked 24/7 and literally collects dust. I use a duster on it ever week or so, but there's very visible build-up over that time, and imagine any damage from ingress would be done.

I feel like paragraphs like the above (all true, by the way) are often taken to be solid defenses of Butterfly. But this isn't the case. The above is my opinion on the feel and my experience on the durability. I fully acknowledge that the keyboard does indeed break more than any that preceded it, and I agree that this is unacceptable. I don't want to defend this mess, and that's never my intention when I say "I like it," but the fact remains: I do like it. Can't help that, can I? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[-narcan-]

Yeah, the screen brightness on these models is very disappointing, at 50% it's barely visible.

 

[leman]

I think OP might be kind of over-dramatising all this. The last two issues are certainly software-related and will be fixed. Coil whine can be annoying, but I don't think I noticed it with my model.

 

[PROFESS0R]

Like others who have replied to this thread, I have none of these issues. Maybe I am not trying hard enough to replicate the YouTube popping noise? Whether I fast forward, fast reverse, play normally, or any combination of these, I do not get any extraneous sounds.

Joe

 

[ascender]

How come when everyone is so excited about their purchases that they are automatically willing to ignore big mistakes, and ready to lie to them self, just to justify their purchases? This is really pissing me off. I just recived my Macbook pro 16, and surley it has everything that it´s written in macumors users.

1. Some hissing cat sound, i guess this is the harddrive
2. The screen is really dimm, not as bright as the 2018/2019 macbook pro 15, and i´m not even a pro user, i noticed it directly when started web browser.
3. And offcourse, the crazy popping noise in youtube when changing between tracks.

This can´t be something minor, or something happening to few users, so f##k every reviewer out there in youtube, that´s ignoring this, just because they got their laptop for free from Apple.

I heard the coil whine/hissing for a short time during initial setup and haven't heard it since.

The screen, for me, is way bright enough. If I max out the brightness, the white is literally hurting my eyes. It also looks just as bright as the last-get of MBP.

The popping noises annoying, but presumably software-related as it doesn't happen in Chrome?

If you're not happy with it, return it for a replacement. But if its not happening on every single machine or in every use case, I'm not sure what you expect them to do?

Reviewers will get a loan of a laptop for a short period of time, they don't get a free one to keep. And many of these reviewers have been very critical of the previous-gen MBP, particularly around the thermals and keyboard issues.

 

[Quu]

Like others who have replied to this thread, I have none of these issues. Maybe I am not trying hard enough to replicate the YouTube popping noise? Whether I fast forward, fast reverse, play normally, or any combination of these, I do not get any extraneous sounds.

Joe

I can't get it to happen in Chrome either but I can replicate it in IINA which is a VLC-like media player. Scrubbing backwards and forth in the video makes it pop like crazy.

I've been unable to make it happen in anything other than IINA.

 

[chrono1081]

i never mentioned fan noise. i'm talking about the audio popping crackling coming from the speakers when you scrub through a youtube video or change a track in final cut pro. unless you think its ok that these amazing speakers are dwarfed by fan noise? lmao

Ok well I don't have that either so it's obviously something wrong with the OPs unit.

 

[Whackman]

Ok well I don't have that either so it's obviously something wrong with the OPs unit.

i don't have that either.

 

[Ma2k5]

I remember the days when Dell XPS began to have coil whine issues, this forum branded them low tier rubbish, poorly QC'd components, how dare Dell sell that etc. When Apple started to also exhibit coil whine (I think 2016-17 onwards), suddenly "it's fine", "easy to ignore".

Funny how it works.

 

[cardfan]

How come when everyone is so excited about their purchases that they are automatically willing to ignore big mistakes, and ready to lie to them self, just to justify their purchases? This is really pissing me off. I just recived my Macbook pro 16, and surley it has everything that it´s written in macumors users.

1. Some hissing cat sound, i guess this is the harddrive
2. The screen is really dimm, not as bright as the 2018/2019 macbook pro 15, and i´m not even a pro user, i noticed it directly when started web browser.
3. And offcourse, the crazy popping noise in youtube when changing between tracks.

This can´t be something minor, or something happening to few users, so f##k every reviewer out there in youtube, that´s ignoring this, just because they got their laptop for free from Apple.

1st gen beta testers. Catalina furthers it. You spend the 2-4k on this. I’ll wait for mini led.

 

[RedTheReader]

1st gen beta testers. Catalina furthers it. You spend the 2-4k on this. I’ll wait for mini led.

While I can understand the sentiment, know that the first generation of miniLED is very much going to be a beta test.

 

[jacg]

I'm sure you're right about this, but I'd like to ask that no one here mistakes personal preference for denial. I like the Butterfly board. Like, I really like the board, and find that I dislike the Magic Keyboard on the new 16" MacBook Pro in comparison. I've been using these Butterfly boards since 2017 (over 2 years now) and I haven't had a single issue with them, even though my current machine stays open docked 24/7 and literally collects dust. I use a duster on it ever week or so, but there's very visible build-up over that time, and imagine any damage from ingress would be done.

I feel like paragraphs like the above (all true, by the way) are often taken to be solid defenses of Butterfly. But this isn't the case. The above is my opinion on the feel and my experience on the durability. I fully acknowledge that the keyboard does indeed break more than any that preceded it, and I agree that this is unacceptable. I don't want to defend this mess, and that's never my intention when I say "I like it," but the fact remains: I do like it. Can't help that, can I? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Having tried both, I too prefer the butterfly low travel keyboard. But I had to send 2 back straight away in 2016 (loud popping sounds under thermal stress) and I am facing a total keyboard replacement now that my 2016 is nearing the end of the extended warranty and the e and 9 keys are unreliable. My new MBP 16 is going back too because the keyboard is sloppy and I just don’t trust Apple‘s warrenty any more (Bad bent iPad pro experience).

 

[impulse462]

Ok well I don't have that either so it's obviously something wrong with the OPs unit.

A lot more than just OPs computer

 

[Lobwedgephil]

1) I have no coil wine on my unit
2) My screen is the same brightness as my 2018 15inch, compared them when I got my computer due to complaints here
3) I can replicate the YouTube sounds, but not as audible as others I have heard here, doesn't bother me as I don't watch YouTube very often, but do hope it gets fixed.

 

[benshive]

Anyone who can't hear the coil whine is old and their ears aren't as good anymore.

I never knew 22 was considered old

 

[turbineseaplane]

Like others who have replied to this thread, I have none of these issues. Maybe I am not trying hard enough to replicate the YouTube popping noise? Whether I fast forward, fast reverse, play normally, or any combination of these, I do not get any extraneous sounds.

Joe

I've heard it on units *at* the Apple Store - It's not something people are imagining.
Be happy you don't seem to have the issue
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I remember the days when Dell XPS began to have coil whine issues, this forum branded them low tier rubbish, poorly QC'd components, how dare Dell sell that etc. When Apple started to also exhibit coil whine (I think 2016-17 onwards), suddenly "it's fine", "easy to ignore".

Funny how it works.

Bin-GO!

This forum needs to check itself a bit. Way too many on here don't realize how far in the bag for Apple they really are and the hypocrisy can be thick as a muddy river at times..