Based on touch alone, I would have to say I suspect the hot spot on the screen is possibly mainly due to reflection. The screen itself on my late 2011 13" model feels significantly cooler than the casing and the air blowing out of it. The hinge does perhaps feel a little warm but that is it. This is when using Handbrake to rip a video file of an hour or more and is probably about the biggest workout my MBP is currently getting.
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How hot does your 2.4 quad core sandy bridge MBP get?
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Based on touch alone, I would have to say I suspect the hot spot on the screen is possibly mainly due to reflection. The screen itself on my late 2011 13" model feels significantly cooler than the casing and the air blowing out of it. The hinge does perhaps feel a little warm but that is it. This is when using Handbrake to rip a video file of an hour or more and is probably about the biggest workout my MBP is currently getting.
The cameras can't look inside the building. They just measure the heat radiation coming from the surface.
I just ran some stuff on my 2008 MBP to heat it up. I got the CPU (CPU A Temperature Diode) to 89C. The nearby sensor (CPU A Proximity) peaked at 71C. The GPU was in the mid 70ies, but the rest of the internals remained much cooler. Bottom line is, you don't have to worry so much about the other components, as they are not actually exposed to these huge temperatures.
The thermal images are in Fahrenheit.
Thermal imagers do not read inside temps, only external surface temperatures. The heat you see on the screen is from the hot air exiting the vent directly below so yes the screen will warm up at that spot.
This is normal for MBP's. Your screen will not burn and the insides will not melt.
Thermal imagers do not read inside temps, only external surface temperatures. The heat you see on the screen is from the hot air exiting the vent directly below so yes the screen will warm up at that spot.
This is normal for MBP's. Your screen will not burn and the insides will not melt.
When idle, my 2.4GHz Core i7 gets about 45C. Under load, I can get up to 92C, but normally it hangs around 85C.
I have a late '11 2.4 15"MBP, on wake up often the thing idles in low 30s to low 40s, i can do high def youtube in the low 60s, and the fans are dead quiet... An application like handbrake w/ lid open will get me up to about 88c and still relatively quiet fan speed, it has to get really hot (92+ to rev up the fans to something obnoxious) - clamshell & handbrake most definitely, temps will spike up to 94c @ 6200rpm, though usually balances out after speeds ramp up that high to actually something cooler than open 84-86c (though remains loud for the rest of the transcoding).....
gaming, welll... the effin' thing gets retardedly hot and obnoxiously loud, unless you actively do something about it (use istat to set min fan speed profile to use when gaming) -- lid open in wow this will try to remain silent as possible and then when in a high pop area like org bank on illidan the temps will spike up to 94 real fast and then fans noise is just absurd, the keyboard gets hot when keys are pressed in (ironically particularly centered around left side of the keyboard around WASD keys) you don't really notice it when typing but if you try pressing and holding the keys in for periods of time like you would w/ movement keys and gaming, it will start to burn your finger tips if you do it for a few hours....
A lot of this can be negated though if you set minimum fan speed profiles with istat, the thing is the mbp default settings allow it to run pretty darned hot and remain relatively silent, but kicks into ridiculous overdrive after it exceeds that threshold.... by setting a mid ranged min. fan speed, you can keep the cpu much cooler w/o dramatic spikes in temp... the keyboard still might get a bit toasty when pressing in keys and holding them, it seems more an issue of it being a low form factor notebook w/ a fast cpu/1gb gpu...
anyways, hope some of this helps....
gaming, welll... the effin' thing gets retardedly hot and obnoxiously loud, unless you actively do something about it (use istat to set min fan speed profile to use when gaming) -- lid open in wow this will try to remain silent as possible and then when in a high pop area like org bank on illidan the temps will spike up to 94 real fast and then fans noise is just absurd, the keyboard gets hot when keys are pressed in (ironically particularly centered around left side of the keyboard around WASD keys) you don't really notice it when typing but if you try pressing and holding the keys in for periods of time like you would w/ movement keys and gaming, it will start to burn your finger tips if you do it for a few hours....
A lot of this can be negated though if you set minimum fan speed profiles with istat, the thing is the mbp default settings allow it to run pretty darned hot and remain relatively silent, but kicks into ridiculous overdrive after it exceeds that threshold.... by setting a mid ranged min. fan speed, you can keep the cpu much cooler w/o dramatic spikes in temp... the keyboard still might get a bit toasty when pressing in keys and holding them, it seems more an issue of it being a low form factor notebook w/ a fast cpu/1gb gpu...
anyways, hope some of this helps....
Agreed on the gaming until the WoW part. In WoW, I get 83C even in highly populated areas, with a fan speed of about 3000RPM which is not audible when playing with the sound turned on. Graphics wise, I have all settings on Ultra except shadow quality, which is set to Good. I usually get 30 - 60 FPS (in Stormwind it sometimes drops to 29FPS, though), and I have yet to experience the "hot WASD" keys. It's being run in Mac OS X Lion.
Try Illidan Horde Org around Org Bank/AH and see what your temps are
We may have different ideas about what is high populated lol... But good your keyboard isn't getting hot, I can def. feel a bit of warmth running wow just resting hands over keyboard on home row, particularly on left side, though though pressing them in for periods of time is where it seems to get hot... I asked a "Genius" about it and he said yes the keyboards get hot, and not to trust temp monitoring apps since they're not authorized, and not to mess around w/ fan control apps since Apple handles it best... at which point pretty much all need for us to further interact had been removed :/
try illidan horde org around org bank/ah and see what your temps are
84C @ 3828rpm
Try Illidan Horde Org around Org Bank/AH and see what your temps are
The GPU is towards the top left of the keyboard which is why it feels warm in that area
thanks for the input guys. personally i will have my fans cranked at 6200rpms before i let my cpu hang out at 88C. **** the fans. they can burn the **** out for all i care. im just trying to save the expensive components for a nice long and easy life.
still undecided on what to do really :/
i dont like to push my temps that hot. i want to be able to game comfortably without worrying about my computer overheating and ****.
blahblah i know all this about apple knows what there doing but do you honestly think they give a **** if ur computer dies in two years from too much heat? no then youll buy another macbook. apple lets ur cpu get blazing hot before even revving up the fans for retards that get pissed there computers are loud and could give a **** about the internals melting. personally, ill wear headphones if i need to, just keep my computer functioning comfortably. sustainability...
still undecided on what to do really :/
i dont like to push my temps that hot. i want to be able to game comfortably without worrying about my computer overheating and ****.
blahblah i know all this about apple knows what there doing but do you honestly think they give a **** if ur computer dies in two years from too much heat? no then youll buy another macbook. apple lets ur cpu get blazing hot before even revving up the fans for retards that get pissed there computers are loud and could give a **** about the internals melting. personally, ill wear headphones if i need to, just keep my computer functioning comfortably. sustainability...
my suggestion if you get the mbp is to buy the applecare warranty, run your machine hard, and enjoy it for 3yrs... then sell it for way more money than it's worth (don't worry, being a mbp, it sells itself).... don't worry, be happy
my suggestion if you get the mbp is to buy the applecare warranty, run your machine hard, and enjoy it for 3yrs... then sell it for way more money than it's worth (don't worry, being a mbp, it sells itself).... don't worry, be happy
Three years should be standard on laptops that can easily run over $2k configured. This is pretty typical from other oems in this price range. It's something I would have liked to see Apple incorporate a long time ago. "It just works" should include the terms of warranty. Any computer manufacturer makes design choices, and decides how to optimize their machine. I think Apple figures that most people don't run their laptops terrible hard all the time so this should be okay. Given that the macbook air is there for lighter computing needs at this point, I'd like to see a macbook pro that retains enough of its thickness to run consistently cool and silent when Intel drops the baseline tdp across its laptop cpus.
I'd much prefer more ports and a machine that runs cool and silent to something that shaves a few mm of thickness. The lack of aluminum isn't the only thing that makes the macbook air light anyway. Lack of a sata form factor hard drive (note the tiny blade style drive) and the use of ultra compact internal parts cuts quite a bit of weight. It's just a matter of how Apple optimizes their designs over the next couple years. The biggest thing that would encourage me to upgrade is a laptop that runs cool without 6000 RPM fans.
There are enough alternatives to buying a mac. In particular for gaming many other laptops are better equipped. Why buy a mac when you're unhappy with the way it handles the CPU temperature?
Same with the warranty? Which laptop brand gives 3 years for free?
Same with the warranty? Which laptop brand gives 3 years for free?
my suggestion if you get the mbp is to buy the applecare warranty, run your machine hard, and enjoy it for 3yrs... then sell it for way more money than it's worth (don't worry, being a mbp, it sells itself).... don't worry, be happy
yeah i mean if possible id like to keep it for 4 but who knows. im still contemplating on buying it now. although i am leaning towards it because i dont have much room for a desktop right now so i probably wouldnt use it until next year. and in that case i would be able to build a better desktop for the money so i might as well wait until i can at least use a desktop haha.
this is exactly how i feel. the next mbp is supposed to be an even thinner body with no optical drive. i mean for sucks sake if you go any thinner the laptops are just ****ing hot potatoes. id rather see them keep the body style they have and implement a better cooling system. and even if they dropped the optical drive, keep the same body style and just add more ports and better cooling..
i just cant see myself using another laptop :/. the batteries in mbps are pretty top notch compared to others and i really just like a mac and how smooth they run for school and stuff. plus other laptops do heat up pretty close to what mbp's do. they might be a little better but they still get pretty damn hot iv done a bit of research. for some reason a lot of people just dont really care about the temps with pcs i feel like.
My car has water temperatures of 90C and oil temperatures of 120C when idle. All components in the engine compartment are chosen either to be able to take the heat or are placed far away, such that they are not exposed to extreme temperatures.
One should assume that laptop designers pay similar attention to this issue. I have yet to see a MBP that was damaged due to high CPU temperatures.
HP's new Envy will have "HP CoolSense", which is supposed to
but even there they care mostly about your comfort, and not about the well being of the laptops internals.
Everything inside an MBP is less than 12" from everything else, sealed in a tight, small, metal box. It's thermodynamically impossible to pump out 100C for three hours straight and still keep the harddrive under 60C. This isn't even remotely comparable to an automobile.
Google image search macbook battery swelling for about 10,000 examples of a hardware failure that is almost certainly heat related.
Also, if a harddrive fails after 18 months of use, the kid who's been playing Team Fortress 2 for four hours a day almost daily probably won't attribute that failure to heat. Not a day goes by that someone doesn't post about a harddrive failure, or a, "logic board," (ugh) issue. There's no way to determine why these issues occurred, but I'd bet at least some are heat related.
So 60C is a problem for harddrives?
You believing that certain issues are heat related doesn't make it true.
Yes. Traditional harddrives (not SSD) have eternally been rated to operate between 0 and 55-60C. 60C is the maximum operating temperature for just about every single platter-based harddrive in use.
Someone not believing an issue to be heat related also doesn't make it true. The circumstances implying, "at least some issues are heat related," are pretty obvious. You have a bunch of already warm things in extremely close proximity to an object putting out a level of heat that exceeds safe ranges for those things. It's mind-bogglingly naive to think that never ever has that heat had an effect. Remember, we're talking gaming and sustained CPU loads. If you're playing Warcraft for six hours straight, those dinky little fans are not going to be able to keep up.
Battery swelling is unequivocally caused by heat. This is common knowledge. It's also common knowledge that MBP batteries swell. Here's a fun thread right on the forums about it.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1000265/
So, you know, you can draw your own conclusions on the MBP's ability to maintain safe operating temperatures from that.
About my temps though at much higher fan rpm.... same graphics settings as yours... and of course, a hot keyboard @ the sustained temps... so I took it in to an infinitely more reasonable and hip "Genius" than the first one I talked w/, and after discussing things we worked out a plan to my liking ---
"Proposed Resolution: I will check in MacBook pro for further troubleshooting. Please open the MacBook pro and inspect for obstructions or anything that looks unusual. Please reapply thermal paste being careful not to use too much. Please then run ASD to test the machine excluding hd and ram tests. If these tests pass please stress the machine for at least two hours and rerun ASD EFI to check sensors. If heat does not appear unusual and tests pass then the repair will be completed."
Anyways, I'll hear back tomorrow or Sunday and will see what happen... If I turns out I can't game w/o burning my fingers w/o reducing graphics settings and using high fan RPMS, oy vey, I'll manage to live w/ it.
I don't worry about it. The computer is safe-guarded to shutdown if it overheats. Furthermore I've only ever once noticed any throttling of any kind, in COD2 no less running in OSX. You're not going to shorten the life of the computer if you ran it at 75c instead of 95c most of the time, it's spec'ed to handle it. Battery life I can see, but it's not a big enough deal that I'm concerned.
One thing I would like to do is find an accurate temp gauge while in Windows. I've had HWMoniter show some of the components being at 103c, and there is just no way it was that high. No ill effects, like throttling. The air wasn't even that hot coming out of the exhaust. I've tried a couple other temp gauges but I don't know which one to believe.
One thing I would like to do is find an accurate temp gauge while in Windows. I've had HWMoniter show some of the components being at 103c, and there is just no way it was that high. No ill effects, like throttling. The air wasn't even that hot coming out of the exhaust. I've tried a couple other temp gauges but I don't know which one to believe.
I have the early 2011 15" model with 2.2Ghz, it does run on 100c ish over time under load. The fan is running on its max speed also, the surface is extremely hot at the same time. So I am pretty sure 103c is correct reading since it MBP is known to have a horrible cooling.
You bring up a good point about the HDD, but when have you seen a recent laptop hard drive come even close to this temp?
But seriously, some people are trying to tell me they can design heat control and airflow better than Apple? Come on, how hot do you think your motherboard has been during manufacture? What if it hit 200c or more, would that freak you out?
Err really? I didn't mean all of that as a good thing but to answer your question - flash is handled without breaking a sweat in OSX but Windows idles at 60C with fans at 6k RPM so flash doesn't help much there.
Ran it again on this saturday afternoon which means WoW's really crowded, got the same temps (82C - 84C), but now at around 4200 RPM. Again, did not experience any hot keyboard issues. I began thinking about this, and I figured it might be because my fingers aren't really thick and therefore I never touch the aluminium when using the keyboard..