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There are still people bitching about this? For God's sake people, it's one frakin' box to unclick.

One box to unclick, or alternately try and see if you will adjust. I hated it at first, and thought to myself "If you leave it alone, you will likely adjust." So I did just that, and it doesn't bother me at all anymore. But as you say, it isn't as though they forced it on anyone with no alternatives. Don't like it.. unclick a box and move on.
 
One box to unclick, or alternately try and see if you will adjust. I hated it at first, and thought to myself "If you leave it alone, you will likely adjust." So I did just that, and it doesn't bother me at all anymore. But as you say, it isn't as though they forced it on anyone with no alternatives. Don't like it.. unclick a box and move on.

I completely agree with this. After having used it for a month or so, I absolutely love inverted scrolling. It makes a LOT more sense, and also "flows" better with how I work things on my smartphone and other touchscreen devices. Now it feels incredibly weird using other people's laptops without the inverted scrolling.
 
I came to OS X from a Linux/BSD/X-Windows environment back in 2002. At first I had an iBook and used it as a portable work computer while using a Linux system as my "main" system. Eventually, the iBook, started getting a keyboard, mouse, and monitor connected to it and ended up being used as an "interim" main computer. Finally, I just acknowledged the the user interface in OS X (back then it was Jaguar and Panther) was simply better than anything any of the open source systems had to offer and so I switched. That was in 2002/2003, and by 2003 I was pretty much using OS X for everything.

I recently installed Lion. My reaction: Go out and start pricing other systems and evaluating Linux/BSD systems again to see if they can be used as my "main" system again. Translation: LION SUCKED!!!!!

After calming down, it became clear that Lion wasn't that bad, but saying something "isn't that bad" does not equate to high praise.

Lion is annoying to many. Lion can be made to function almost identically to Snow Leopard, but it's an annoyance. The "improvements" made to Lion aren't something that a user by default has the option to switching to, but rather they're "in your face." You have to accept the way Apple has decided you now need to think and handle data, or you have to change it, which means you now have find out HOW to change it. It isn't impossible, but it's annoying.

My chief gripes:

1. Gestures vs. Old Basic Trackpad use: I prefer the old way. It works similarly on all operating systems. The "natural scrolling" is a freak that will likely turn new users completely off as they go into an Apple store and find out that via Apples Holy Grail, they must now relearn something that essentially had nothing wrong with it in the first place. A computer isn't an iPhone, and most people won't make that mistake!

2. The Launch Pad, IMHO, is just plain stupid looking. It's easy enough to just ignore it, but once again, what was the dock for? Is the future going to do away with the dock so the computer acts like a phone? ReallY?? I place this right up there with Microsoft's "Bob", for those of you who remember that.

3. Modification to the way Finder presents data. I used to sort my files alphabetized by type. All of a sudden the files are subdivided into new types by broken segments, with a squirly looking "paging icons" that force the user to "page through" what isn't shown. This was, without a doubt, the most ridiculous looking thing I've ever seen on any operating system. When I visited a MicroCenter recently and went to their Apple section and there were a couple of boys, probably in there late teens, using a demo MacBook Pro, and ridiculing it loudly and openly. "Wow!! Look how stupid this is!!" I went over to look over their shoulders to see what they were looking at, and indeed, it was this "improvement" that had turned what was once the most respected OS on the planet into, apparently, a source of ridicule.

Once again, this can be overcome by clicking on some of the new arrangement options, but why did I need to "relearn" this anyway??? I used to be able to open a Finder window, scroll through it since the icons themselves typically identified the type, and find what I needed. A few clicks. Using this "improved" interface, I need to scroll through the types, find the type, and then scroll through the files or expand the "paging icon" to see the full list of files. It makes no sense. Finding what I wanted used to be quick and obvious, now it's annoying, stupid looking, and often takes numerous selections and clicks. This has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever seen on an OS. My first reaction was "Are these guys actually trying to annoy me???"

4. Shades of gray vs. color. Selections aren't highlighted in color any more, they're grayed out. It's not a big deal, but normally graying something out represents it being disabled.

I could go on and on with a list of grievances. Lion does have some useful, even good improvements, but the list I've provided above illustrates only a few of the bad points I find annoying, if not flat out stupid (and I didn't even touch on lack of support for PPC programs!!). Many of the changes should have been presented to users as options they could adopt if they so desired (like using "natural scrolling") but instead they chose to hit the users over the head with a baseball bat.

If this is truly the future of Mac, then it will be a future without me. I'm not alone, either.

"....Have you seen that new operating system from Apple? Lion? Oh my God, it's horrible!!!"

... a paraphrase of Joe Scarborough on the "Morning Joe" news/politics show.
 
1. Gestures vs. Old Basic Trackpad use: I prefer the old way. It works similarly on all operating systems. The "natural scrolling" is a freak that will likely turn new users completely off as they go into an Apple store and find out that via Apples Holy Grail, they must now relearn something that essentially had nothing wrong with it in the first place. A computer isn't an iPhone, and most people won't make that mistake!
Seriously...? You're going to make me do this, aren't you?

You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.

What is so damn hard to understand?
 
For a Macbook User FileVault 2 should be reason enough to upgrade to Lion.

I´ve never used the old FileVault due to its inability to work together with Time Machine, so this is a blessing. Finally all my data plus the Time Machine Drive can be fully encrypted.

Lion has no major downsides for me. Yes, performance is still a bit sloppy compared to SL, but I´m pretty sure Apple will improve this.
 
Seriously...? You're going to make me do this, aren't you?

You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.

What is so damn hard to understand?

No, you've missed my point completely. I thought by now that turning off the natural scrolling would be a "given" considering how many people have complained about it and how long Lion's been around.

My point is that the default action is to use it, along with other "improvements." It's the fact that once you get Lion, if you don't like a lot of these "improvements" you have to waste a fair amount of time reconfiguring the system so it's usable in terms of one's own preferences. A better way to have introduced the "improvements" would have been to make them optional and point out to users how to enable them.

Keep in mind that a lot of people aren't particularly tech savvy and reconfiguring things is something they know little about.
 
No, you've missed my point completely. I thought by now that turning off the natural scrolling would be a "given" considering how many people have complained about it and how long Lion's been around.

My point is that the default action is to use it, along with other "improvements." It's the fact that once you get Lion, if you don't like a lot of these "improvements" you have to waste a fair amount of time reconfiguring the system so it's usable in terms of one's own preferences. A better way to have introduced the "improvements" would have been to make them optional and point out to users how to enable them.

Keep in mind that a lot of people aren't particularly tech savvy and reconfiguring things is something they know little about.

Alaerian did miss your point. Your earlier comments about Lion were right on the money. Using OnyX for Lion and Lion Tweaks I've been able to disable many of Lion's crappy UI changes. By dumping iWork and using Office 2011 the horrible Versions was neutered. Unfortunately I can't get Lion to perform like Snow Leopard on any of my Macs.
 
Do you guys think it's worth it for me to upgrade? I have a MacBook Pro 2.26 with 2GB of ram, will Lion run better than SL for me or is my ram too small and could be a issue?.
 
No, you've missed my point completely.
<...>
It's the fact that once you get Lion, if you don't like a lot of these "improvements" you have to waste a fair amount of time reconfiguring the system so it's usable in terms of one's own preferences
No, I didn't miss your point. I don't like the natural scrolling either. I might like it if I used a trackpad, but I doubt it would feel "natural" to me unless I was scrolling directly on the screen a la iPad.

You say users are required to "waste a fair amount of time reconfiguring the system" to change miniscule options. I'm sorry, but no. Considering all of the options you're speaking of are in SysPrefs within just a couple of clicks, there's absolutely no reason for it to take more than a moment. Even the most technologically stupid people can figure out that the settings for the Trackpad are ... wait for it ... under "Trackpad!"

I'm sorry if you feel they aren't improvements. Your opinion =/= everyone else's opinion.

Poo poo Lion all you want. It ain't going anywhere. You've been left behind whilst the rest of us just moved on. Sorry.
 
No, I didn't miss your point. I don't like the natural scrolling either. I might like it if I used a trackpad, but I doubt it would feel "natural" to me unless I was scrolling directly on the screen a la iPad.

You say users are required to "waste a fair amount of time reconfiguring the system" to change miniscule options. I'm sorry, but no. Considering all of the options you're speaking of are in SysPrefs within just a couple of clicks, there's absolutely no reason for it to take more than a moment. Even the most technologically stupid people can figure out that the settings for the Trackpad are ... wait for it ... under "Trackpad!"

I'm sorry if you feel they aren't improvements. Your opinion =/= everyone else's opinion.

Disagree; I does take a fair amount of work. A novice or casual user who previously used Snow Leopard and wants to return some of Lion's changes has to do a bit of Web reading in order to discover tools like Lion Tweaks and OnyX. Also not everybody is knowledgeable or comfortable with using Terminal.

Many of us would need only a of hours to find what we need. Other users may not even know in which direction to head. That is a serious problem. Fortunately for Apple there are millions of new users who have never used Snow Leopard and don't know what OS X has lost.
 
Do you guys think it's worth it for me to upgrade? I have a MacBook Pro 2.26 with 2GB of ram, will Lion run better than SL for me or is my ram too small and could be a issue?.

I wouldn't run Lion with 2GB of RAM unless you're a very casual user. I'd stick with SL.
 
My point is that the default action is to use it, along with other "improvements." It's the fact that once you get Lion, if you don't like a lot of these "improvements" you have to waste a fair amount of time reconfiguring the system so it's usable in terms of one's own preferences.

As a long time user of both KDE and Enlightenment, I can say I see no problems at all with this.

Are you a Gnome user per-chance ?
 
I do wonder why Apple decided to make natural scrolling the default. Not so much from a usability standpoint. I am in no way in favor of Lion's changes but the natural scrolling is really easy to disable and certainly not one of my major complaints with Lion.

BUT...I'm really surprised that Apple hasn't run into more problems with novices trying the computers in the store and being like wtf why can't I scroll!!! When I go into the Apple store to try out the new airs fully aware that natural scrolling will be present it is still a shock to me (and annoying as hell).

Also annoying is the fact that there are a few places in the interface (in mission control somewhere I think) where natural scrolling IS NOT disabled even though you have changed the system prefs.

But again, if apple is going to improve Lion I would rather they provide more options rather than changing default behaviors. As long as they give me a checkbox somewhere (or even a secret terminal code) to disable some of the more odd Lion behaviors (autosave/versions and lack of save as come to mind) I would be happy.

I will probably try migrating back to Lion at some point soon as I do want to get a new computer within the next year or so. But hopefully 10.8 can be a really nice polishing of Lion (ala Leopard to Snow Leopard) that will get rid of the little niggles.
 
"Natural Scrolling" would make more sense if it were a cross platform (ie, OS X, Windows and Linux) option. The fact is that quite a lot of us have to live in more than one OS environment and personally speaking, it would drive me insane having to remember scrolling works one way in Windows and another in OS X.

Plus, I'm used to how it works as it is and has been for years. At best, "Natural" scrolling could become just as second nature as normal scrolling is now but I fail to see how it could be somehow better. In which case, there's no point in making life more complicated.

Reminds me of.....Versions really.
 
"Natural Scrolling" would make more sense if it were a cross platform (ie, OS X, Windows and Linux) option.

It wouldn't make a lot of sense for Apple to wait for all other manufacturers to catch up before implementing (what they feel are) improvements in HCI.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

I go back and forth between Mac and Pc daily. I work 8 hours per day on a PC. I have an iPhone and a MacBook I use several hours per day after work. I prefer natural scrolling, it feels right. That said, the brain kicks in at work and I don't even realize I scroll the other way. I scroll heavily at work. Don't let scrolling sway you, honestly, the brain just takes over. At least mine does!
 
I do wonder why Apple decided to make natural scrolling the default.

Many of the new changes were enabled by default. My best guess the reason why they did this was to let users know they existed, and to try them out. I mean, how would a person really now they exist, unless they read it somewhere or they enabled them by default? People may not know for years...lol It took me a while to change them, but it was not bothersome.
 
I am one of those people who are still running snow leopard . I have come across some negative reviews about 10.7 .

SL is working great for me so far and I don't want new learning curve and bugs with the upgrade .

It has no support for rossetta as well . I don't like IOSish features of Lion .

should I upgrade..?

any suggestions

No. Don't upgrade.

----------

Seriously...? You're going to make me do this, aren't you?

You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.
You can turn off natural scrolling by unchecking ONE box.

What is so damn hard to understand?

Helluva lot of box checking for an OS that is supposedly meant to work for everyone "out of the box".
 
"Helluva lot of box checking for an OS that is supposedly meant to work for everyone "out of the box".

Exactly my point!!! But it isn't just me, the real problem was my sister. I do software development for a living and figuring out what needs to be done isn't that big of a problem. My sister, on the other hand, isn't technically savvy at all. She didn't like the "natural" scrolling, she didn't like the default way mail was set up, she didn't like the changes to iCal (I couldn't agree more!!), etc. etc. etc. Since I am her "default" system admin because "I'm the expert", it becomes a burden on me.

Picture the same scenario at a company filled with 10's, 100's, or 1000's of end users with the same dislikes. Can you spell H-E-A-D-A-C-H-E?

When I first installed and used Lion, my first impression was: "Are these guys now using Microsoft as a role model?"

Personally, I don't dislike Lion. Once I configured it to my liking it can almost look and act sort of like an enhanced version of Snow Leopard, but I don't see why I needed to waste hours of time trying to basically restore an operating system so it acts more like its predecessor. I don't personally exist on this planet to cater to the whims of Apple's "elite thinkers," particularly when they're wrong. Some of the enhancements will be invaluable to some users, but not all. What I really, really dislike was the in your face modifications to the OS. By forcing users to, by default, adapt the way they use a computer is simply wrong. It's like they're trying to send out a message that they know what's best for everyone, and everyone must now adopt. Hey, if I see a movie I don't like, I leave.

Regarding the question about whether or not to install it, I can only answer by stating that I had to install it because we do software development and our products need to be tested on the latest OS. What I did was install it on a removable FireWire drive, so I'm not locked into it. My sister, on the other hand, installed it essentially blind over her own Snow Leopard partition, and thus can't go back, and she hates it. The product is low cost. If you can install it on an external drive or another partition, it might be worth trying. If you can't do this, or don't have the expertise to repartition drives or configure an external drive, think twice about it. Read other review as well. I think CNET referred to Lion as "Apples 'Vista' Moment." I couldn't agree more!

Interestingly, some of the Apple units coming into MicroCenter (an authorized Apple distributor) are coming in with Snow Leopard installed. Are these units that are now out of production that MicroCenter can sell at a discounted price, or has Apple itself recognized a problem with Lion.

........Hmmmmmmm.....it makes me wonder!!!!
 
Due to some reasons unknown to me every major Computer OS is trying to become a "Tablet OS"

OS X Lion , Windows 8 (with metro ) , Linux (Ubuntu with Unity )

Looking forward to use Haiku OS as a desktop OS :)
 
Due to some reasons unknown to me every major Computer OS is trying to become a "Tablet OS"

OS X Lion , Windows 8 (with metro ) , Linux (Ubuntu with Unity )

Looking forward to use Haiku OS as a desktop OS :)

Probably the idea is to have a consistent user interface and experience across all devices. FWIW, I find Unity far more annoying than Lion. At least you don't have to use Launchpad if you don't want to. Windows Metro is potentially the most annoying of all as it makes a computer single tasking. At least with Lion you don't have to use Full Screen mode.
 
If you depend on legacy software, are unwilling to create a bootable backup of your existing Snow Leopard Volume and unwilling to invest in and learn the new Lion paradigm with all it's improvements, then I would say No, stick with Snow Leopard.

Lion isn't only an upgrade-- it's changed a lot of file-system document management in ways that aren't very well implemented/are incomplete. Autosave is great, *SOMETIMES*, and not cool at all other times. Versions solves some problems, but not the ones I deal with every day... so I'm back to wrangling with the filesystem to track document revisions. Very 1980s, yes, but that's today's reality in lots of small companies (like mine). Someday The Cloud will come down and save us, but apparently it's not happening in 2012.

----------

I am one of those people who are still running snow leopard . I have come across some negative reviews about 10.7 .

SL is working great for me so far and I don't want new learning curve and bugs with the upgrade .

It has no support for rossetta as well . I don't like IOSish features of Lion .

should I upgrade..?

any suggestions

If you make documents often, and use the file system to make and track versions, then I'd try it before buying it. I had it, and actually returned my latest Mac because there's just no way we're using the Duplicate/Versions/Autosave workflow (that's missing keyboard shortcuts and FORCES mousing) instead of a good old CMD-shift-s to Save As and give a new title to the user-defined version.
 
I'm a little curious, how has versions broke the file system?

It's impossible to actually delete a file without vaping the entire OS, for a start.

Secure empty of Trash doesn't delete document deltas from /.DocumentRevisions-V101. Hence it is possible to recover documents that have been "deleted". While FileVault provides some protection against this with thieves, there are plenty of other reasons why you might need your files to be secure where it's useless - legal cases for example where you need to securely destroy a document. You can still in most countries be ordered to decrypt a FileVault volume in court, whereas you can't be ordered to magic up a file that no longer exists.

Lion is effectively unusuable in any scenario where you have sensitive information.

In addition, since version deltas are device specific, if you pass a file around several drives and machines with alterations on each you can quite easily corrupt the entire file, especially if non-HFS+ volumes are involved.

It also silently fails entirely on NTFS formatted volumes.

And of course, there's no way to turn versions off.

Phazer
 
It's impossible to actually delete a file without vaping the entire OS, for a start.
This in OS that now demands I enter my password to move items in and out of the Application folder or Library.
It's baffling.
Apple seems to have come to value security theatre over actual security.

They should have packaged 'versions' under a tab of the 'Simple Finder'*. That way it'd be there for consumers who don't want to be bothered with technicalities such 'files' and 'folders', but wouldn't leave sensitive information exposed in places even an expert user has no way to control.


*Now hidden away in 'Parental Controls'.
 
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