How is Mac OS X 10.7 Lion ..?

[linuxcooldude]

I think you've missed Phazer's point completely. It's totally an issue because Lion uses a different file system paradigm to Windows and the problem is in fact exacerbated by the inability to use an OS that has the same file system paradigm, namely Snow Leopard.

Perhaps you guys are missing my point as he was the one who originally commented on my previous post.

Someone coming from Windows to Lion, never having used Leopard Snow before would never know the difference.

 

[Gomff]

As far as I can tell, Windows (8) seems to be adopting Autosave with Metro apps as well. iPhone and iPad users are also used to documents autosaving. I don't see this as an issue in the future. You also have to consider that most (regular) users try to stay as far away from the file system and document management as possible.

But I'm not a (regular) user. I'm a producer, not a consumer. I didn't buy a Mac to consume content, I bought it to produce content. Part and parcel of that remit is complete control over file management and assets. I need to know where all the different things are that constitute the project I'm working on, whether that's sound files, 3D models, drawings, pdf documents etc.

Does anyone seriously expect the majority of users to still be saving manually in a few years?

If you want someone to produce animations, Special Effects, Architectural Walkthroughs, Music, Films, Documentaries and Multi-media to mention just some amongst the multitudes of digital creative art forms, then well.....Yes.

By the way, too much consumption and not enough production is one of the reasons the developed world is in such a mess right now.

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Perhaps you guys are missing my point as he was the one who originally commented on my previous post.

Someone coming from Windows to Lion, never having used Leopard Snow before would never know the difference.

But the point is, someone coming from Windows would be used to the "Save As" paradigm (found in Snow Leopard), not Versions and Duplicate which are not found in Windows, but are pushed on the user in Lion.

I can't see how you're missing that.

 

[tkermit]

I need to know where all the different things are that constitute the project I'm working on, whether that's sound files, 3D models, drawings, pdf documents etc.

How is that not possible on Lion? If you're talking about Versions, you're free to manually export versions of your document to individual files, if you feel the need to do so.

If you want someone to produce animations, Special Effects, Architectural Walkthroughs, Music, Films, Documentaries and Multi-media to mention just some amongst the multitudes of digital creative art forms, then well.....Yes.

How does the concept of autosaving+automatic versioning keep one from producing any of that content?!

 

[linuxcooldude]

But the point is, someone coming from Windows would be used to the "Save As" paradigm (found in Snow Leopard), not Versions and Duplicate which are not found in Windows, but are pushed on the user in Lion.

I can't see how you're missing that.

Ok, I see what your getting at, I'm talking more generally, your talking more specifically.

I would think the new user would understand going from Windows to Mac OSX Lion would know new operating system, new rules. Mac OSX Lion is not Windows.

Remember, I'm saying this new user never having used Snow Leopard would not necessarily know it had the Save as function.

 

[Partron22]

Versions and Duplicate which are not found in Windows, but are pushed on the user in Lion.

Apple caved on that stupid copy and paste of files thing that the windows fanboys seem so enamored of. Seems to me the least they could do for their OSX/iOS content producers is let us manage our own project files as we see fit.

 

[Orion27]

I have to agree with Gomff. With Save As, it was one click and my files could be grouped easily. Duplicate is an extra unneeded step. Versions, I never bought into the Time Machine paradigm but that's just me. I like hard copies and bootable cloned backups. Which brings me back to Save As. When I Save As I know immediately I have saved a backup, or a draft. Autosave is still a murky experience, wrapped in world of doubt. I must know a change or final product is Saved. Save As is explicit and clear that I have saved that important document. Export? Well no. I just want to Save As. I've made the transition to Lion, and I'm in for the ride, but the shift in the paradigm is unsettling, for me a Mac User since 1984.

 

[linuxcooldude]

Autosave is still a murky experience, wrapped in world of doubt. I must know a change or final product is Saved. Save As is explicit and clear that I have saved that important document.

You have a problem with duplicate because it adds an additional unneeded step. But with Save as, you are perfectly fine with the extra step because in Auto save you would not have to do this.

With FCP X, every change or step that is make in the editing process is automatically saved simular to Auto Save, even though I don't know how similarly they are related although.

 

[Gomff]

How is that not possible on Lion? If you're talking about Versions, you're free to manually export versions of your document to individual files, if you feel the need to do so.

How does the concept of autosaving+automatic versioning keep one from producing any of that content?!

In both cases, I was referring to your remark about nobody manually saving in a few years, or staying as far away as possible from the file system, not Lion's current file system which is at least accessible, albeit in a less transparent way than Snow Leopard.

The concern going forward for many professionals is that the opacity of the file system will increase, thus making asset management more difficult. You seemed to be inferring the same thing in your previous post.

Frankly, I'm old fashioned.....I like to organize my own files and whilst I'm happy to use DropBox type services as an auxiliary tool, I also want my files on my hard drive where I can get at them whenever I like.

My data belongs to me.

 

[tkermit]

In both cases, I was referring to your remark about nobody manually saving in a few years, or staying as far away as possible from the file system, not Lion's current file system which is at least accessible, albeit in a less transparent way than Snow Leopard.

The concern going forward for many professionals is that the opacity of the file system will increase, thus making asset management more difficult. You seemed to be inferring the same thing in your previous post.

I see. I expect access to the file system to remain available for professionals who have the need for it. At least for the time being. I certainly couldn't imagine being completely shut off from the file system at the moment. And the situation on the iPad, with applications each managing their own data silo, seems very subpar to me. Of course, in the long run, superior solutions may appear.

 

[Gomff]

And the situation on the iPad, with applications each managing their own data silo, seems very subpar to me. Of course, in the long run, superior solutions may appear.

Indeed. Let's hope that Apple let their customers decide whether something is superior or not though

 

[thestickman]

From a musican's perspective

Got a MacBook in 2007 & ceased using Windows for recoding/mixing music. Started using logic express till 2009 & went full Logic. From late era Tiger to 10.6.8 I never had a problem working in OS X. I never needed to tinker with things it all just worked for me. SL still does.

Lion just doesn't work the same for me. Finder in Lion pisses me off to no end on simple tasks like making new folders in Logic & saving channels strips. How I did things in a smooth & functional manner went out the window. I've reinstalled Lion six or more times on my iMac hoping to get it figured out and it just sucks right now for me. Keep in mind I am not a developer. Can't read a line of code and don't care to. I just want to get my work done as before.

I wrote as much to Apple last week. AHT says I have no hardware problems. Logic works perfectly in SL but becomes pita in Lion. I never tinkered with osx before and don't want to start now. I cannot in good conscience recommend Lion to someone interested in using Logic as their DAW. Lion doesn't improve my workflow in any way.

Just my four-five cents worth. Peace