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iPad How likely will Apple release an iPad with a stylus like the Note 10.1 2014?
- Thread starter hajime
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This whole thread has turned into a discussion about which stylus to use when taking handwritten notes in apps that merely replace paper. Great for the rain forests I suppose but that's a really narrow minded view of how a stylus should interact with any device capable of supporting one.
You all can use your silly ''chicken-scratch" apps for private use but some of us need to share our words with the outside world. I imagine an iOS where the clunky ''pop-up" keyboard is replaced with an optional stylus writing area any time text input is required. And no, turning the iPad into an expensive netbook by attaching a heavy Logitech or Zagg keyboard to it is pretty stupid IMO. (that's why there's an 11" MacBook Air).
And while I have zero facts to base this on, I'm convinced the iPad and iOS doesn't do native handwriting recognition because when this seemingly natural idea was proposed to Steve Jobs by a minion he threw one of his childish tantrums extolling the virtues of the ''finger" and how beautiful it is. (or some such nonsense).
I think the physical computer keyboard and laptop did much to make writing instruments near obsolete for many but with tablets becoming more prevalent it is my hope this changes. What's sad is that Apple's competitors will continue to capitalize on the shortcomings of iOS.
You all can use your silly ''chicken-scratch" apps for private use but some of us need to share our words with the outside world. I imagine an iOS where the clunky ''pop-up" keyboard is replaced with an optional stylus writing area any time text input is required. And no, turning the iPad into an expensive netbook by attaching a heavy Logitech or Zagg keyboard to it is pretty stupid IMO. (that's why there's an 11" MacBook Air).
And while I have zero facts to base this on, I'm convinced the iPad and iOS doesn't do native handwriting recognition because when this seemingly natural idea was proposed to Steve Jobs by a minion he threw one of his childish tantrums extolling the virtues of the ''finger" and how beautiful it is. (or some such nonsense).
I think the physical computer keyboard and laptop did much to make writing instruments near obsolete for many but with tablets becoming more prevalent it is my hope this changes. What's sad is that Apple's competitors will continue to capitalize on the shortcomings of iOS.
I'm not sure I see the utility of that Bill. For most, text input typing, even on screen, is far faster than one can write. People want a stylus so they can take free-form notes, and some of us also just want to write because we enjoy the process. Windows has a very good text input box that is extraordinarily accurate, but it's still so slow as to be little more than a gimmick. Computer input requires a suite of characters and a precision with spacing that just doesn't lend itself to handwriting.
Handwritten input mixed with other content is great in OneNote on Windows, and works great for sharing information, but that's really one of the very few apps available on that platform that is both decent at handwriting and handles the tablet interface well. iOS actually has a larger selection of apps for interfacing with content and a stylus these days, and handwriting recognition or not, most of them make it very easy to share that content with others, which I do all of the time. Despite having a Surface Pro, I take most of my handwritten meeting notes on my iPad at work.
Handwritten input mixed with other content is great in OneNote on Windows, and works great for sharing information, but that's really one of the very few apps available on that platform that is both decent at handwriting and handles the tablet interface well. iOS actually has a larger selection of apps for interfacing with content and a stylus these days, and handwriting recognition or not, most of them make it very easy to share that content with others, which I do all of the time. Despite having a Surface Pro, I take most of my handwritten meeting notes on my iPad at work.
Given that the iPad is not five models old and the iPhone 7 and after Steve's 'the only stylus you NEED is your finger', no apple won't ever make a stylus. They made devices that can use an optional stylus and that's all the support they feel they need to do on that front.
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Now that is possible. I'm sure with all the talk of artists using iPads and iPhones Apple could be looking at making displays with smaller touch points etc so you can more accurately draw and write on the devices.
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Indeed. Productivity is not a single task. What I need to do to be work or be productive is likely far from what others do. And believe me I am very very productive and creative with an iPad and my fingers.
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Not everyone needs hand writing recognition to be creative or productive. In fact I bet most folks don't need it. Might be useful if it's there but it isn't a mission critical requirement
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If it makes sense for the vast majority of users. But many of the 'must have' things talked about on forums like this are really just the needs of a small cut of folks. Less than 5% in many cases. It's not sensible for Apple to invest tons of money into things that aren't needed by 'everyone'
Apple hasn't included a stylus with iOS devices ever and they sell millions of them. Same for SD cards to expand storage, pressure sensitivity, a 13 inch model etc.
You clearly haven't used a tablet with an active digitizer. Trying to compare the $10 foam-tipped nubs marketed as styluses, vs. and active digitizer like those found on the Galaxy Note products is like comparing a crayon and construction paper to a fine mechanical pencil and a drafting board.
The passive styluses for iPad simply don't work reliably enough to depend on for serious handwritten note-taking (including illustrations). I thought the Adonit Script Pro Evernote Edition would solve the problem, but even after a few minutes of using it I was left once again disappointed with the results. It provides only a modest improvement over all the other Bluetooth styluses marketed for iPad. The lag between writing and seeing the input appear on screen is insanely distracting. I've also tried the Pogo Bluetooth stylus which was no better than the $10 styluses on Amazon.
For this reason, my Galaxy Note 10.1 is my work tablet, while I use my iPad rMini for everything else. S-Pen is incredibly accurate and offers some excellent hover functionality that profoundly improves the usability of the stylus. I've recently purchased a Galaxy Note 8, which offers even more features. Epson offers an app that allows for video out to their projectors over wifi, so it's a great white boarding tool for sales engineers who need to present using a whiteboard.
If Apple would simply get on board and offer a Wacom display with digitizer, they'd have both the enterprise and consumer markets locked in with a single product. They simply need to get over Steve's comments about the stylus, it's been several years and the success of the Note line proves there's a market for active styluses.
Lastly, the Surface Pro 2 is consistently out of stock, so it's selling well. At roughly the same price as a loaded out iPad Air, I can assure you that it's active stylus is contributing massively to its success. Even so, I'd take an iPad with active stylus over a Surface Pro in a heartbeat.
I wish I could justify using two tablets. I gave up my Note 10.1 (2014 edition) because I needed flawless PDF annotation and the best android offering (ezPDF pro) was trash compared to GoodNotes on iOS. Laggy, too many steps to do simple things like highlight or add a sticky note, etc.
How frustrating. I really, really miss the S-Pen. There is nothing like it.
No, or a smaller than 9.7" iPad, which is if I recall on these forums THE perfect size.
Ohhhh!
Very unlikely .... thanks God.
I got rid of stylus on touch screens several years ago, and don't wanna go back.
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What is "the success of the Note lines" ???
iPads are outselling them by far ....
I got rid of stylus on touch screens several years ago, and don't wanna go back.
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What is "the success of the Note lines" ???
iPads are outselling them by far ....
"As soon as Columbus puts his finger down..."
In my hometown we have a statue of Christopher Columbus with his hand up in the air pointing upward (no idea why). When something is unlikely to happen, we say it will happen "as soon as Columbus puts his finger down."
As in never.
In my hometown we have a statue of Christopher Columbus with his hand up in the air pointing upward (no idea why). When something is unlikely to happen, we say it will happen "as soon as Columbus puts his finger down."
As in never.
Assuming you are an intelligent human being.
Humans, like Apes, evolved and used tools to aid them to do tasks.
Unlike other animals that have not evolved such skills, we found that a hammer is better than a fist to break things with.
We also found that we could use tools to paint and draw with which gave us greater detail and accuracy than our bare fingers.
We use a particular brush when painting to give us the brush stroke we wish, we use a fine tipped pen or pencil to allow us to be able to form complex letters on a page, and design symbols for a language.
Given hundreds of thousands of years evolving, and having the vast range of tool available to us now, allowing us to have far finer control over something as clumsy as a finger tip, that blinds us from what we are doing (unless you have transparent fingers)
You feel that having the OPTION of a stylus for those times when you wish finer precision that a human finger can give you (eg cave painting or pressing a button) would be a bad thing?
The option of something better if needed.. Is wrong..... Yes ?
ANY iOS program COULD be written to take advantage of a finer pointing device than a fingertip.
Ideally the screen tech could be improved a bit, to also recognize a finer sized tip. they we could move on and have the best of both worlds.
bit easy to use buttons and large swiping hand movements for apps that benefit from that, and also the ability to use a stylus for other apps that would benefit from a move finer control method, perhaps without having to resort to various sheets of large clunky buttons you can use a finger on.
I see no negative in having the benefits of both methods of operation to suit something. And obvious one it of course fine detail drawing, where currently the line you are drawing is actually covered up be your finger, so you are actually blind.
"think different!"
Apple finally relented and made a useful mouse--before making another useless mouse--and likewise they will eventually make an active stylus.
I dont see s-pen navigation taking off--though
Very unlikely!
From my experience in the Retail stores....
The stylus (At my time of work) was never present as an accessory in any of the retail stores. From my understanding was that Steve or someone from Cupertino really hated the idea of having to use a stylus for a device.
The comment was it was unnecessary and counteracts a problem opposed to resolving it. The view was why use a stylus to make something more accurate, why not make the display more responsive instead?
Therefore I see this as unlikely for anytime in the near future.
From my experience in the Retail stores....
The stylus (At my time of work) was never present as an accessory in any of the retail stores. From my understanding was that Steve or someone from Cupertino really hated the idea of having to use a stylus for a device.
The comment was it was unnecessary and counteracts a problem opposed to resolving it. The view was why use a stylus to make something more accurate, why not make the display more responsive instead?
Therefore I see this as unlikely for anytime in the near future.
Very unlikely!
From my experience in the Retail stores....
The stylus (At my time of work) was never present as an accessory in any of the retail stores. From my understanding was that Steve or someone from Cupertino really hated the idea of having to use a stylus for a device.
The comment was it was unnecessary and counteracts a problem opposed to resolving it. The view was why use a stylus to make something more accurate, why not make the display more responsive instead?
Therefore I see this as unlikely for anytime in the near future.
Tim calls the iPad a canvas a lot and touts the creative apps. A precise tool would fit with this belief.
That is one of the things that helped Apple get where they are at... catering to people who have difficulty dealing with "options".
But what Apple is finding is that they've reached market saturation for that demographic... and so are beginning to look at offering options for the rest... as in options in device colors, and screen sizes. They take a step and then gauge the response. If they can increase marketshare by including support for an active stylus, then they will.
Great discussion. Productivity can be achieved with an iPad and stylus, but at a sacrifice of what? Lead a meeting where the focus is on a paper schedule and be the one person on an iPad that has to move and manipulate an app to accommodate the shortcomings of the device to accomplish tasks that are simpler with pen and ink on paper. I tried to move away from paper for the savings and efficiency of emailing markups from the meeting right away. Our problem is we have a reluctance to wait in a meeting for an iPad user to catch up to the paper counterparts. As our company continues to go digital with BYOD programs, maybe we will see an accepted period of adjustments for app and or text box placement to continue note taking during the meeting flow. As of right now it is a counter flow and distraction when leading a meeting. That is not what Apple products should inspire.
Pre meeting markups are fine, it's the time required to highlight, then zoom in for legible hand written notes. Or star something and flag multiple items. I can accept an app based work around, but it has to be efficient and accurate when required to augment the work flow...
I've used iannotate, (my main go to), notability, penultimate (for hand written meeting actions), note taker, PDF expert. Each one had a strength but also a major shortcoming not known until needed in a meeting setting. I'm not trying to be the guy that says they have tried them all. I'm trying to be the guy that is looking to get the most efficient work flow for my meeting note taking requirements and combine them into a nice predictable package for my colleagues (of varying usage abilities) to adopt and master. I have given up that effort for now, but I am very interested to see others thoughts on app workarounds or eventually perhaps Apple recognizing the need for finer tools.
Paper based meeting time...
Pre meeting markups are fine, it's the time required to highlight, then zoom in for legible hand written notes. Or star something and flag multiple items. I can accept an app based work around, but it has to be efficient and accurate when required to augment the work flow...
I've used iannotate, (my main go to), notability, penultimate (for hand written meeting actions), note taker, PDF expert. Each one had a strength but also a major shortcoming not known until needed in a meeting setting. I'm not trying to be the guy that says they have tried them all. I'm trying to be the guy that is looking to get the most efficient work flow for my meeting note taking requirements and combine them into a nice predictable package for my colleagues (of varying usage abilities) to adopt and master. I have given up that effort for now, but I am very interested to see others thoughts on app workarounds or eventually perhaps Apple recognizing the need for finer tools.
Paper based meeting time...
Before I retired I worked in software development. I usually lead the design meetings. Back then (2003-2004) I used the old HP 1100 windows tablet with OneNote. It had aWacom digitizer and a stylus (the stylus actually had it's own garage that charged it when not in use. I never ran out of charge even with 6+ hours a day of use). I could take handwritten notes and make drawings of screen mock-ups. Can't do that with a keyboard. Plus ideas would come fast and furious discussed and maybe dropped, maybe expanded, etc.
With OneNote I could use the handwriting-to-text and could actually circulate notes within 30 mins of the meeting. It saved me hours and hours of transcription. Even back then it did a surprisingly good job with my awful handwriting (which surprised my husband since it really is awful).
If Apple doesn't include an active digitizer they are really missing a pretty big component of the business world and even students. Think about a math or engineering class where you need to add formulas or drawings...People who don't see the need simply aren't in an occupation where it would be useful or have no imagination.
Having said all that, I doubt Apple will do it. They seem to have the entertainment segment of tablets locked up. But for productivity? Well, as MS gets it's act together they will continue to dominate the business side. iOS won't be able to compete with it's current limitations. For all we know, Apple may be content to rule the 'simple' tablet market.
Very interesting. I'm going to do some digging about your device. I can make the iPad working in a meeting but it's not worth the sacrifices...
The new iPad air commercial tries to show folks the many business uses for the device, yet it lacks the true support to make it the definitive corporate device. I just don't understand why they cripple the device and rest on the laurels of it still sells well. That's not what inspires me and many other Apple users. Inspire me on how it can be done, don't tell me it can't because you refuse to evolve.