Yeah, while the old macs will be able to do the basics, Apple has been reserving lots of desirable basic software features for newer models. Like lots of the continuity features, etc. Plus my old laptop doesnt have a touch id sensor, which I view as a major need esp with apple going password-free soon. Lots if stuff like that is more important to me than raw processing power, ram or even a big ssd I hav ediscovered
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How much RAM are you going to get in your new MacBook Air?
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The price is $500 away from a 14-inch MBP configured with more than 16GB of memory, which is the correct comparison.
I don't use video editing apps, but I do fairly often run significantly memory-hungry VM's while flying economy. My company has a 100% no-business-class rule, executives included, and I doubt that we're alone. If and when I replace my late 2013 rMBP, a 24GB 13+ inch Air is a definite possibility, especially now with Rosetta available inside VM's.
We do too. If there are no seats available in first class, we take the next flight.
Thats the way to live. But most of the market for Apple computers doesn't live that way; they need something light and thin for economy class, as well as traveling by bike, and walking with a backpack or messenger bag. Apple computers *scream* American middle class. It is no coincidence there is a student and teacher discount. And the MAcbook Air is the bestselling MacBook because of all of this. Go to any college campus and you will find a library full of MacBook Airs with a speckling if Pros.
A person who can’t figure that out has very bad business sense, regardless of which company they work for… ;P
Yup same model, 15#, albeit 3,06GHz CPU but main/ only comp. That Core2Duo of ours, is it classified by Intel as the 1. Gen? Difficult to ascertain as per Intel's own page as the i3,i5, etc have a Gen designation in the name.
I'm curious as iStatMenus offers/ links to Intel Power Gadget for add on to display clock frequency for the stats from 2. Gen only onwards. Guuessing C2D is 1.Gen. perhaps.
Discontinued: Intel® Power Gadget
The Intel® Power Gadget project is no longer active.
www.intel.com
Hey, we meet again. I was reading in your thread 5 years ago about the M3 16gb Macbook.Sure. Proper tools for the job. But see the post from @Useless Touchbar below.
BTW, the same argument was made against the 16 GB 12" MacBook. 5 years later a lot of buyers in the same price category would not buy an 8 GB machine. Truth be told, I agree 24 GB is overkill for most MacBook Air buyers. But not all, esp. if it's going to be their main machine, used at home with an external monitor.
The surprising part for me though is just how well Apple's marketing is working. In the poll after 85votes, 41% of the voters would go for 24 GB, vs. 46% for 16 GB vs. 13% 8 GB.
View attachment 2015615
I was expecting something like 20% 24 GB, 50% 16 GB, and 30% 8 GB, and that was accounting for the MacRumors geek bias. Or so I thought. Clearly I was wrong. However, I think upgrade pricing has a lot to do with it. It's hard to spend 33% more on a whim, but it's easy to spend 12% more on a whim. For example, education pricing for 24 GB RAM is only US$180 more than 16 GB.
The other option is the 13" M2 MacBook Pro, but I personally dislike that machine in 2022, and I assume @Useless Touchbar dislikes it too.
You sound like someone who could benefit from 24 GB, but who doesn't necessarily need top end CPU speed.
I am going for the 24gb like some others here.
My experience is I have a 2015 15" 16gb 2.5GHz AMD discrete graphics MBP. And I have around 50+ safari tabs open in multiple desktops and windows. I use my Mac as both as personal and work machine so I have many numbers and pages document as well as PDF opened as well.
When all the above happens, the machine lags when I swipe 4 fingers between desktops, and safari tabs reload often. The powerful CPU on the MBP does not help when this is the case. Looking at the memory swap, it also swaps a lot and writes up to 50gb+ of data on SSD everyday even though the memory pressure is not even yellow (just high green). Hence my conclusion that 16gb of ram is not enough for such loads.
However, I don't do heavy stuff like photoshop or edit videos so I don't need a high performance CPU, just enough ram to hold all the work on the table without swapping tons.
One thing though @EugW. I remember you experimented a lot with the H.265 video playback on the kaby lake MacBook vs Skylake and older gens without the hardware decoder. And the CPU usage was crazy on the ones without the decoder vs just 3% on the kabylake MacBook M3. What I understood from you was always try to hold until hardware decoder is included in the CPU you will buy for future proofing. Since AV1 decoder is not yet included in M2 do you think this is yet again another paradigm that is waiting to be shifted? (If this is hijaking the thread because its not related to RAM my apologies. Can we continue in private message/a new thread if thats the case.)
Wow, you have a good memory! More than 3% CPU usage on m3 but the point is I can play (non-DRM) 4K 10-bit HDR HEVC no problem on the lowly m3.
Yes I have wondered about AV1 support but my conclusion here is either it’s already there in M2 but not exposed in macOS (unlikely) or else it won’t be in macOS for many years. However, in this case I’m not so concerned about it since it’s not going to be a critical necessity for the Mac for many years IMO.
Back in 2016 or whatever, it was clear to me that HEVC was going to be necessary for viable 4K support sooner rather than later even on the Mac, but I just don’t see that for AV1 on the Mac side in the near term. Maybe I’m wrong but that is my take.
"4K 10-bit HDR HEVC" this triggers memory! I followed your advice and the MacBook m3 (intel) is the best purchase of the decade as you said. Now I am seeking your expertise once again for the best purchase of this decade = Lowest CPU MacBook Air M2 24gb Ram 512gb.
What made you conclude that the AV1 won't become relevant for Mac in the near term? I heard it is being adopted rapidly for YouTube and some others due to being royalty fees. Thank you!
What made you conclude that the AV1 won't become relevant for Mac in the near term? I heard it is being adopted rapidly for YouTube and some others due to being royalty fees. Thank you!
Right on, my friend.
I still haven't decided if I'd get a 16 GB M2 Mac mini or a 24 GB M2 Mac mini (this year or next year, whenever it comes out), but now I'm leaning toward the latter unless some M2 Pro model comes out that is enticing. I definitely do not need a 32 GB Mac Studio.
Part of the reason is the cost. For the M1 Pro MacBook Pro, it costs CA$450 (US$356) to upgrade memory above 16 GB, to 32 GB, at the Apple Canada Education Store. For the M2 MacBook Air, it costs only CA$225 (US178) to upgrade memory above 16 GB, to 24 GB. I presume M2 Mac mini upgrades will be similar.
I know I don't need 32 GB, so paying big bux extra for that just makes no sense. However, it's a lot easier to stomach paying an extra CA$225 to get me to 24 GB, for a machine I plan on keeping more than 5 years.
I was very sure about the importance of 4K HEVC, but admittedly I'm not as well versed as to the direction of AV1 and its politics. However, remember, Apple already licences HEVC anyway for all its iPhones, iPads, Macs, and Apple TVs, and will have to continue doing so for many years too. Also, competitors like Qualcomm won't even include AV1 hardware support in their chipsets until 2023, so adoption in hardware continues to be low, even on the Android side, which is Google's bread-and-butter obviously. Android devices outsell Macs by an order of magnitude.
YouTube will provide support for a long, long time, for existing formats for 4K that Apple already supports. I don't know about 8K, but personally I don't care. 8K is not on the radar for me as something that actually will matter in the greater scheme of things for the next several years.
However, hardware support for AV1 4K in Macs now is also less critical than hardware support was for HEVC 4K in Macs 5 years ago. Back in 2017, even a top-of-the-line iMac Core i7-6700K could not cleanly play back many 4K HEVC 10-bit p60 videos, even with the CPU maxed out and the fans running in vacuum cleaner mode. In 2020, a fanless M1 MacBook Air could already cleanly play back 4K AV1 in software. This is with moderate CPU usage, and AFAIK the MacBook Air could even lightly multitask while doing that. M2 would perform even better.
BTW, in the off chance there is hidden AV1 hardware support that hasn't yet been exposed by macOS and Quicktime, I'd say the chances are it is much more likely to be present in M2 than M1, since Apple significantly updated the hardware codec support in M2.
In summary, I want an M2 Mac mini within the year and while there is no official AV1 support (yet) with M2, I don't expect it to be a real concern for many years on the Mac. And even if one day AV1 becomes a real requirement, M2 already fast enough to provide AV1 decode in software, with only moderate CPU usage for 4K content. And as for 8K, I just don't care much.
Anyhow, maybe it's a good idea you start a new thread on this in the Apple Silicon forum. It's an interesting topic.
After 140 votes, exactly 50% have said they would get 16 GB. That high proportion is not unexpected, esp. at a place like MacRumors. However, I’m surprised that well over 1/3 will select 24 GB. Apple will be very pleased.
I'm still on the fence on what my next computer will be. I love the air so much, I've had them in the past, and I know they're far more capable than people realize (I used to do 3D work and tons of development work on mine). I don't do as much 3D anymore so mine would just be for development mostly. I'd probably still get 24 gigs of ram.
Well, it seems you are one of the minority that could actually significantly benefit from 24 GB. Sounds like a good plan.
My apologies for the late reply.Right on, my friend.
I still haven't decided if I'd get a 16 GB M2 Mac mini or a 24 GB M2 Mac mini (this year or next year, whenever it comes out), but now I'm leaning toward the latter unless some M2 Pro model comes out that is enticing. I definitely do not need a 32 GB Mac Studio.
Part of the reason is the cost. For the M1 Pro MacBook Pro, it costs CA$450 (US$356) to upgrade memory above 16 GB, to 32 GB, at the Apple Canada Education Store. For the M2 MacBook Air, it costs only CA$225 (US178) to upgrade memory above 16 GB, to 24 GB. I presume M2 Mac mini upgrades will be similar.
I know I don't need 32 GB, so paying big bux extra for that just makes no sense. However, it's a lot easier to stomach paying an extra CA$225 to get me to 24 GB, for a machine I plan on keeping more than 5 years.
I was very sure about the importance of 4K HEVC, but admittedly I'm not as well versed as to the direction of AV1 and its politics. However, remember, Apple already licences HEVC anyway for all its iPhones, iPads, Macs, and Apple TVs, and will have to continue doing so for many years too. Also, competitors like Qualcomm won't even include AV1 hardware support in their chipsets until 2023, so adoption in hardware continues to be low, even on the Android side, which is Google's bread-and-butter obviously. Android devices outsell Macs by an order of magnitude.
YouTube will provide support for a long, long time, for existing formats for 4K that Apple already supports. I don't know about 8K, but personally I don't care. 8K is not on the radar for me as something that actually will matter in the greater scheme of things for the next several years.
However, hardware support for AV1 4K in Macs now is also less critical than hardware support was for HEVC 4K in Macs 5 years ago. Back in 2017, even a top-of-the-line iMac Core i7-6700K could not cleanly play back many 4K HEVC 10-bit p60 videos, even with the CPU maxed out and the fans running in vacuum cleaner mode. In 2020, a fanless M1 MacBook Air could already cleanly play back 4K AV1 in software. This is with moderate CPU usage, and AFAIK the MacBook Air could even lightly multitask while doing that. M2 would perform even better.
BTW, in the off chance there is hidden AV1 hardware support that hasn't yet been exposed by macOS and Quicktime, I'd say the chances are it is much more likely to be present in M2 than M1, since Apple significantly updated the hardware codec support in M2.
In summary, I want an M2 Mac mini within the year and while there is no official AV1 support (yet) with M2, I don't expect it to be a real concern for many years on the Mac. And even if one day AV1 becomes a real requirement, M2 already fast enough to provide AV1 decode in software, with only moderate CPU usage for 4K content. And as for 8K, I just don't care much.
Anyhow, maybe it's a good idea you start a new thread on this in the Apple Silicon forum. It's an interesting topic.
The 24gb is indeed a surprise (instead of 32gb that people expect) and a nice middle ground for non pros but heavy user. I can see why you would be tempted for 24gb mac mini =).
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I can see where you are coming from. So Apple might choose to use HEVC support mainly and force contents to provide HEVC (instead of AV1) in their device for the near future.
There are news that Qualcomm is adding AV1 decoder in their next chip (unsure if this or next year). So support might increase next year. I agree with 8k. My eyes already need glasses and I cannot see the pixels on my 4K TV or 4K monitor T_T. It is interesting that the M1 can software decode 4K AV1 and I certainly hope Apple surprise us with AV1 decoder inside M2!
I cheer you for the M2 Mac Mini. However, for me, due to rumors of 15" MacBook (and 12" MacBook) in the past week it has shaken my decision. I am not sure if I should wait T_T.
There are already threads on AV1 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-m1-vp9-av1-decoding.2269938/page-2 (does M1 have AV1 decoder?). I will ask in there and might start a new thread on M2.
Thank you for your insight into AV1!
The solution? Don't have 30 YouTube videos running! 😎
Say, there's also this nifty thing called “bookmarks” that lets you, well, bookmark your web pages and return to them with a single click!
Ad blockers make a big difference, too.
From what I’ve read around here, the complaints about slow downs, beach balls, and sluggishness with 8 GB RAM often involve running several RAM-hogging, resource-intensive programs at the same time, along with videos, coding programs, and a browser, often Chrome, with scores of tabs, including YouTube web pages open.
For the average consumer who doesn't do all that, 8 GB is fine.
I like the adage around here that says:
”If you don’t know whether you need 16 GB or not, you probably don't!”
The corollary?
”Spend the extra $200, get 16 GB, and don't worry about it!”
In the scheme of things, especially among those with enough disposable income to buy Macs, $200 is a pittance.
I currently have an M1 MacBook Pro with 16GB RAM and I am thinking of trading it in / selling it to get the new Air and 24GB of RAM.
I use the laptop for work, 90% of the time its attached to a 24" LG UltraFine display at my desk. I keep it closed and in a vented drawer below my desk. Answering e-mails, lots of stuff in browser windows/lots of tabs (Parts ordering, managing our Shopify, etc...), photoshop, illustrator, and web design. I don't do any video editing. I backed the Anker 3D printer on Kickstarter, so I might dabble in 3D rendering eventually. As it is right now, activity monitor typically pegs my use at 12 - 14 GB of RAM being used, so I figured I might as well pay a little for extra breathing room and get the 24GB of RAM (I don't know how people manage with only 8GB)
For me, I think the 14" Pro is overkill and I like the smaller form factor of the 13". I commute to work on either a bicycle, scooter, or motorcycle, with my laptop on my back, so lighter and smaller is beneficial.
Compared to my current MBP, I don't know if the lack of a fan and the slightly smaller battery are going to be a noticeable downgrade for me. Its probably a frivolous upgrade in the end, but I like the looks of the Air and getting MagSafe back. I really don't feel any sort of way about the Touch Bar.
My MBP had a 1TB drive, but I realized I'm only using 1/4 of that - so I will probably trade off the increase in RAM by going with a 512GB SSD.
I use the laptop for work, 90% of the time its attached to a 24" LG UltraFine display at my desk. I keep it closed and in a vented drawer below my desk. Answering e-mails, lots of stuff in browser windows/lots of tabs (Parts ordering, managing our Shopify, etc...), photoshop, illustrator, and web design. I don't do any video editing. I backed the Anker 3D printer on Kickstarter, so I might dabble in 3D rendering eventually. As it is right now, activity monitor typically pegs my use at 12 - 14 GB of RAM being used, so I figured I might as well pay a little for extra breathing room and get the 24GB of RAM (I don't know how people manage with only 8GB)
For me, I think the 14" Pro is overkill and I like the smaller form factor of the 13". I commute to work on either a bicycle, scooter, or motorcycle, with my laptop on my back, so lighter and smaller is beneficial.
Compared to my current MBP, I don't know if the lack of a fan and the slightly smaller battery are going to be a noticeable downgrade for me. Its probably a frivolous upgrade in the end, but I like the looks of the Air and getting MagSafe back. I really don't feel any sort of way about the Touch Bar.
My MBP had a 1TB drive, but I realized I'm only using 1/4 of that - so I will probably trade off the increase in RAM by going with a 512GB SSD.
If you're at 12-14 GB, memory pressure is always green, you don't have much compressed memory, and there isn't a lot of swap, then you don't need 24 GB.
Your machine will compress memory as needed, and also hit the swap as needed. That's how people with 8 GB RAM get by.
If you have other reasons to upgrade to the M2 MBA, then by all means do it. But don't upgrade just because memory used is listed at 12-14 GB. That alone is not a good gauge.
It has always been green when I check. Thats good to know, I obviously didn't have a full understanding of the RAM usage. I was trying to drive it up and didn't see it increase. As I work this week I am going to keep an eye on it but you're probably right. That makes an upgrade decision both easier (Smaller difference to upgrade now) but also harder (less justification/excuse to do it). Thanks!
Considering some users hate to upgrade devices every two years, the high RAM options look promising long term vs the stock 8GB.
I keep going back and forth between 8 & 16 and then remember that my 11" Air here is running a mere 4GB of DDR3 (1600MHz). Have 11 tabs open on Firefox currently and aside from this browsing/streaming/working in Google Docs, I never really do much else except maybe fire up VLC and watch a little of this or that. So I'm pretty sure 8GB will do me good.
8 GB is more than enough for that workload.
I'll shortly be replacing my 2014 Air which has just 4gb memory and still surprises me just how well it manages with that! (Okay it's just Mail, Calendar & Safari most of the time, but quite a few tabs open...)
With this in mind I'm sure 8gb will be more than sufficient for my new laptop, so I'll be getting the base configuration. It can swap as much as it likes, and the bulk of my files can stay on iCloud.
That said my desktop is a maxed out M1 iMac so that can handle a couple of users, lots of desktops, loads of tabs in multiple browsers, and store all my files locally. I only need one machine with this kind of capacity.
With this in mind I'm sure 8gb will be more than sufficient for my new laptop, so I'll be getting the base configuration. It can swap as much as it likes, and the bulk of my files can stay on iCloud.
That said my desktop is a maxed out M1 iMac so that can handle a couple of users, lots of desktops, loads of tabs in multiple browsers, and store all my files locally. I only need one machine with this kind of capacity.
Looking for some genuine input from others here because it seems every thread I read about RAM paints 8GB as a devilish decision.
My workload for this computer is personal use and freelance web design work outside of my day job. Currently I am using the baseline M1 Air, which I'll be handing down to a family member when switching to the M2 Air.
The most strenuous situation I would image would be the following: working on a several page site in Webflow, streaming YouTube (video tutorials/etc), Illustrator open with a multi canvas project (site mockups), Mail open, Photos open, Calendar open, TextEdit open, Spotify open, and the occasional random app also like LogiOptions and Keychain in this case. I use Safari exclusively. This combined with using a 27" 4K LG display.
I've only ever been able to get to around 7GB of RAM usage in Activity Monitor and have never noticed any hiccups in performance. Seeing as the M2 is going to be slightly more efficient with memory than the M1, I do not see any need to spring for the 16GB. I also change computers fairly frequently so future-proofing is not as important in my needs. Happy to have my mind changed
My workload for this computer is personal use and freelance web design work outside of my day job. Currently I am using the baseline M1 Air, which I'll be handing down to a family member when switching to the M2 Air.
The most strenuous situation I would image would be the following: working on a several page site in Webflow, streaming YouTube (video tutorials/etc), Illustrator open with a multi canvas project (site mockups), Mail open, Photos open, Calendar open, TextEdit open, Spotify open, and the occasional random app also like LogiOptions and Keychain in this case. I use Safari exclusively. This combined with using a 27" 4K LG display.
I've only ever been able to get to around 7GB of RAM usage in Activity Monitor and have never noticed any hiccups in performance. Seeing as the M2 is going to be slightly more efficient with memory than the M1, I do not see any need to spring for the 16GB. I also change computers fairly frequently so future-proofing is not as important in my needs. Happy to have my mind changed
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I checked out several of our (Intel) machines which have been running for days to weeks with relatively light usage, three with 8 GB RAM and one with 24 GB RAM. All four machines are running 12.4 Monterey.
These have Mail, Messages, Safari +/- Chrome with a few to half a dozen tabs including YouTube, Activity Monitor, and a mix of more apps including Music, Zoom, Apple TV, Notes, Pages, and Excel.
The 8 GB machines have around 5-6 GB memory used, with 0.5 GB to 2 GB compressed memory, and 0.3 GB to 0.9 GB swap.
The 24 GB machine has around 16 GB memory used with 2.3 GB compressed memory, and 0.05 GB swap.
Overall, the main difference is that the swap file is larger on the 8 GB machines than the 24 GB machine. However, the few times I've checked, memory pressure has always been green on all of the machines. So does this mean 8 GB is enough for all? No, of course not. I will say that in the past when I've loaded many more programs and documents, the swap files have gotten much larger, and that's when I've noticed the slow downs. But with these swap files under 1 GB, I don't notice any significant lags in daily usage. And this is on older Intel Macs with slower SSD speeds. Apple Silicon Macs are much faster in general, and have much faster swap file speeds.
I do have a 16 GB Monterey machine as well, but it has been off for the past week so it would not have been an equivalent comparison.
These have Mail, Messages, Safari +/- Chrome with a few to half a dozen tabs including YouTube, Activity Monitor, and a mix of more apps including Music, Zoom, Apple TV, Notes, Pages, and Excel.
The 8 GB machines have around 5-6 GB memory used, with 0.5 GB to 2 GB compressed memory, and 0.3 GB to 0.9 GB swap.
The 24 GB machine has around 16 GB memory used with 2.3 GB compressed memory, and 0.05 GB swap.
Overall, the main difference is that the swap file is larger on the 8 GB machines than the 24 GB machine. However, the few times I've checked, memory pressure has always been green on all of the machines. So does this mean 8 GB is enough for all? No, of course not. I will say that in the past when I've loaded many more programs and documents, the swap files have gotten much larger, and that's when I've noticed the slow downs. But with these swap files under 1 GB, I don't notice any significant lags in daily usage. And this is on older Intel Macs with slower SSD speeds. Apple Silicon Macs are much faster in general, and have much faster swap file speeds.
I do have a 16 GB Monterey machine as well, but it has been off for the past week so it would not have been an equivalent comparison.
Honestly for your workload, I'd suggest 16 GB. Many people have gotten by with 8 GB with similar workloads, but IMO, 8 GB isn't ideal for this. I'd think that with some of your more heavier usage, you machine makes more significant use of the swap file. The Apple Silicon machines are better for hiding the lags from this, but ideally for optimum performance, you don't want to have so much swap file usage.Looking for some genuine input from others here because it seems every thread I read about RAM paints 8GB as a devilish decision.
My workload for this computer is personal use and freelance web design work outside of my day job. Currently I am using the baseline M1 Air, which I'll be handing down to a family member when switching to the M2 Air.
The most strenuous situation I would image would be the following: working on a several page site in Webflow, streaming YouTube (video tutorials/etc), Illustrator open with a multi canvas project (site mockups), Mail open, Photos open, Calendar open, TextEdit open, Spotify open, and the occasional random app also like LogiOptions and Keychain in this case. I use Safari exclusively. This combined with using a 27" 4K LG display.
I've only ever been able to get to around 7GB of RAM usage in Activity Monitor and have never noticed any hiccups in performance. Seeing as the M2 is going to be slightly more efficient with memory than the M1, I do not see any need to spring for the 16GB. I also change computers fairly frequently so future-proofing is not as important in my needs. Happy to have my mind changed
