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Does Steve Jobs bear grudges?

Oh what a mediocre, restricted world we still live in.

Apple spent months and months developing a brand new integrated approach to selling/downloading/playing/managing music. They set a standard that, apart from some tweaking, is precisely what the customer needs in the current state of music distribution, and shows a shaft of light to the music industry. Then what happens?

HP, MS et al phone up the big five, who arrange a whole licencing deal over a cup of coffee without any competitive disadvantage for coming along late. Then HP and MS monopolists use their financial muscle to buy up some 3rd party hick town mp3 player, and launch an Apple lookalike service that gives the consumer a mediocre service that works, but only just.



The innovative HPs and MS probably just about understand that the music store is purely a sexy marketing tool. They definitely understand that customers in a homogenous grey world do stick with what they know. So they will chuck loads of mud at their existing huge customer base, know that much of it will stick, and believe that thats how they will keep going head to head with Apple before swamping them in grey.

Jobs says Apple excel because they love what they do. I hope Steve Jobs is smiling politely at the Big Five while he rapidly lays the foundation for sticking his finger up at them. If they could be the hub of a www of independent distributors, that would change the way the music industry worked and reward Apple and the consumer rather.At the moment, Apple are famous for the iPod and pioneering a neat new outlet for rip off Big Fives.
 
Originally posted by emanu
I don't think so. WMP is standard on PC boxes not iTunes or Quicktime. PC users allways use what they have and don't even look at the alternative solutions. It's the same thing once again. PC users already think WMP is a standard not AAC.
With HP joining the game, it's only reinforce this sentiment.

That's a bit strong. You're saying, with all the thousands of pc programs out there, all windows users use outlook express to collect their email? And none of them choose to use mp3 over wma?

Granted, UNEDUCATED pc users will never change. But to say "PC users always use what they have and don't even look at the alternative solutions" is a bit ignorant. It would make iTunes for the PC a bit redundant, wouldn't it?
 
If most people used WMP then why would most PC users and former PC users used WinAmp over WMP? Maybe because it was just better.

Yes, there will be some PC users that will just take whatever MS hands them but most won't if they find something better.

I believe after a yr or so the only 2 still in the music market will be Apple and MS.

I wonder how much money MS can lose before the bean counters start going after Gates?? I mean they lose money on every Xbox thats sold and now they will lose money for every track they sell. Not to mention all the money they are having to payback due to court loses.
 
Poor HP

Sigh you know I used to really like HP once upon a time. Before they slashed there RND budget to something resembeling nothing, firering all there recearchers, cancelling there CPU projects including Alpha which is, whas, propably the best CPU architecture of all time. And decided to go with the oh so great(not) Itanum, killed (going to) HP-UX, alienated there big iron sever customers, merged with Compac and decided to go with that oh so rockin' Compac quality ( My father owns one of those running Win Xp, if you don't move the mouse during boot up, it'll crash, if you leave it alone for a couple of minutes, it crashes. Oh and did I mention that it allso generally crashes for no apparent reason at all?).

And that's just scimming at the top of HP's problems.
And no I'm not bitter at HP, with the exeption of that computer that my father uses, but then again I have my own Linux box so I'm not subjected to it's horrors.
I'm fully capable of thinking that they are a bunch of incopetent monceys to busy flinging faecial matter at each other to actually run a company, without being bitter.

So no I'm not worried at all over HP's announcement.
 
Europe

MS, HP and DELL should start out in Europe. That would really **** up for Apple.

I HATE the fact that iTMS hasn't come here yet...

:(
 
Re: Europe

Originally posted by TorbX
MS, HP and DELL should start out in Europe. That would really **** up for Apple.

I HATE the fact that iTMS hasn't come here yet...

:(

With the numerous licensing rights in each country not many yet have decided to do much of anything in Europe.

In fact Microsoft is trying some music download service in Europe but they are also getting sued for patent infringement:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/10/14/HNtiscali_1.html
 
Re: Europe

Originally posted by TorbX
MS, HP and DELL should start out in Europe. That would really **** up for Apple.

I HATE the fact that iTMS hasn't come here yet...

:(

I think that Europe will get it at the same time as Australia, Asia and the rest of the world. If Apple was to going to do this in stages we would have seen at least an iTunes for Canada or Japan by now.

A HP music store would not be such a bad thing for iTunes. HP would be competing with Microsoft who would rather make its own music store the default in any future Windows installations. The two giants can fight amongst themselves for all the user cares. After all, iTunes is compatible with any PC running the current Windows and that is always an option.

The HP music player would also be a good thing for the 1.8" HD format. With more companies utilising those drives prices will come down and performance will increase. Of course iPods would still sell well if they remained at the same prices. Having said that, cheaper iPods would be welcomed universally.

Perhaps Apple should split the iPod into consumer and proffessional lines like it has with the Macs. Consumer versions should offer the same features as modern iterations and Proffessional should include things like built in media card readers, colour screens and AV inputs and outputs.
 
I think this will be the next '.com buzz'. The media player market and music service market will crash in two years, and the only survivors will be iTunes and mabey Microsoft's.
 
OK how many iTunes Music Store copycats are there. This is getting rediculous

1.Buymusic.com
2.Napster
3.Dell
4.HP

how many others are there

aren't MTV, microsoft and sony going to come out with stores soon also.

Tyler
 
Re: Welcome HP

Originally posted by gekko513
My guess is that HP will do better than the other iTMS/iPod competitors.

Their service and support is lacking to the highest degree. If you are an enterprise customer, the service is good, of you are not and just a consumer, forget about it. HP also likes to use proprietary methods. The peecee companies should have gotten together and created one service. They each could have created their own client so each would have a different look. The backend would use a common framework. This would have allowed them to negotiate deals with label quicker. Each company would also be responsible for their front-end servers, bandwidth and player.
 
Originally posted by JohnGillilan
worst download service ever

How insightful!

Amazing how you can have an opinion already! The service hasn't even been released. Lemme guess, Marty McFly told you, huh?
 
Originally posted by marccarter
I think it's good. Watch them all struggle like mad, then crah and burn. Apple will be referred to constantly as the company who did it right. Also, this will get more people into music downloads and MP3 players, as there will be more advertising money floating around. Then, when all these new consumers start to suffer from poor service levels and lack of quality downloads, they will go looking for an alternative. It's a little bit like the internet early days. When you first get the opportunity to go online, you just follow the crowd using the browser, search engines and sites suggested. Once online, people start to think for themselves and want better service, so they find a new browser, search engine etc.

More competition is a good thing, especially as Apple genuinely makes a quality MP3 player and runs a top class download service, and it is always nice that people feel the need to imitate, Apple must be doing it right!

Marc

You have got to be joking. Most users use IE because its there, not because it's the best. The same can be said for WMP and Outhouse Express. There are people that type the name of the site they want to go to in a search engine. Lets say they wanted to get to www.microsoft.com. They will type that into a search engine and click on the first result that appears.

If customers suffered from the lack of support and poor quality of downloads, they will probably just decide not to participate in music downloads anymore. For one, if they bought a player that can only be used with one service, why would they try a different service and buy another player? If they spent a couple hundred dollars, they may not want to spend it again.

Quality competition is important, not just competition.
 
Re: Poor HP

Originally posted by Eric_Z
Sigh you know I used to really like HP once upon a time. Before they slashed there RND budget to something resembeling nothing, firering all there recearchers, cancelling there CPU projects including Alpha which is, whas, propably the best CPU architecture of all time. And decided to go with the oh so great(not) Itanum, killed (going to) HP-UX, alienated there big iron sever customers, merged with Compac and decided to go with that oh so rockin' Compac quality ( My father owns one of those running Win Xp, if you don't move the mouse during boot up, it'll crash, if you leave it alone for a couple of minutes, it crashes. Oh and did I mention that it allso generally crashes for no apparent reason at all?).

And that's just scimming at the top of HP's problems.
And no I'm not bitter at HP, with the exeption of that computer that my father uses, but then again I have my own Linux box so I'm not subjected to it's horrors.
I'm fully capable of thinking that they are a bunch of incopetent monceys to busy flinging faecial matter at each other to actually run a company, without being bitter.

So no I'm not worried at all over HP's announcement.

Wow. That's bitter. And a rather incorrect assessment of HP's internal R&D situation, not to mention its relationship to its "big iron" customers. I realize this is off topic, but I had to respond. I am a middle manager in R&D at HP. This person's personal experience with HP or Compaq PCs notwithstanding, HP made choices about the old DEC products (Alpha, Tru64, OpenVMS) to continue some and not continue others. R&D spending, while cut in some areas, has actually grown year-over-year to a huge proportion. And they continue to be successful in servers, especially at the high end.

Now, as for the music store announcement, the only thing I can add to what's already been said, is that you can count on HP staying in this market as long as its competition does (Dell). With MS entering the show, things will get real interesting. And then the shakeout will start. And, unfortunately, unless Apple makes a few more bold moves to secure its future as a premier music service and music player on *windows* then I'm afraid Apple will lose, even though they pioneered this market. Don't get me wrong, I love Apple products and the whole concept of Apple. But their history is wrought with bad marketing decisions that cost them a broader marketshare, even though they are the most innovative PC company in the world.
 
Originally posted by Shadey
How insightful!

Amazing how you can have an opinion already! The service hasn't even been released. Lemme guess, Marty McFly told you, huh?

You have to look no further then this:
"An H-P (HPQ: news, chart, profile) spokeswoman confirmed reports that the No. 2 PC maker would have its version of a digital-music storefront up and running next month. The company intends on taking the wraps off of some of its digital-music offerings, including a music player, at the annual Consumer Electronics Show.

H-P would not give further details about the music store and player, saying the products' designs are still in the works."

Let's see, the design is still in the works and the CES is January 8-11. So roughly in one month, they will show their product and have their store up and running. I view a lot of bugs in the software and the product. They don’t nearly have enough time to make sure everything is ironed out. They can't even get their All-in-One software to work on the peecee or Mac platforms. Oh, for the peecee side, if you want network support you have to pay for upgraded software. Even though the current software is buggy as can be. They say the download is too big. If that were case, then they would allow other software to be downloaded from their site that is even larger.
 
Re: Re: Re: Poor HP

Originally posted by Shadey
Best sentence I've read here in ages.

Like HP is not guilty of that? They bought their way to the number one computer maker spot and lost it. They used their money to overtake Dell. What did Dell do, they stepped up to the plate and fought back. I haven't seen HP trying to reclaim the spot or even making any headway in it.
 
Originally posted by TyleRomeo
OK how many iTunes Music Store copycats are there. This is getting rediculous

1.Buymusic.com
2.Napster
3.Dell
4.HP

how many others are there

aren't MTV, microsoft and sony going to come out with stores soon also.

Tyler

Not totally accurate....


1. Buymusic.com
2. Napster
3. Music Match
3a. Dell which is basically Music Match rebranded.
4. HP
5. Sony (Supposedly some time next year.)
6. Thought I heard some rumors of Best Buy making a go of the whole music store thing.
7. Microsoft (Supposedly some time next year.)
 
Originally posted by Lanbrown

Let's see, the design is still in the works and the CES is January 8-11. So roughly in one month, they will show their product and have their store up and running.

Yep and do you want to hazard a guess as to how close Apple was tweaking the code for Panther before it shipped. (Didn’t they release a version of Panther to developers weeks before it went gold code?)
Oh and how often does Apple release full details of its plans before it goes live?

Aren’t you being just a tad hypocritical?? :rolleyes: The music market is heating up along with the competition. Would you give the full details of your service to your competitors before its ready to go?


Never say sucks until it launches and until you try it out first hand.
 
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Yep and do you want to hazard a guess as to how close Apple was tweaking the code for Panther before it shipped. (Didn’t they release a version of Panther to developers weeks before it went gold code?)
Oh and how often does Apple release full details of its plans before it goes live?

Aren’t you being just a tad hypocritical?? :rolleyes: The music market is heating up along with the competition. Would you give the full details of your service to your competitors before its ready to go?


Never say sucks until it launches and until you try it out first hand.

What about hardware problems? They have no details on it as the designs are still in the works. Products need to be tested. Just ask Dell about its PDA and PPC 2003 fiasco.

If there is a hardware fault and they are already in the customer's hands, they have a huge problem. They are rushing it to market just to match Dell.
 
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Not totally accurate....


1. Buymusic.com
2. Napster
3. Music Match
3a. Dell which is basically Music Match rebranded.
4. HP
5. Sony (Supposedly some time next year.)
6. Thought I heard some rumors of Best Buy making a go of the whole music store thing.
7. Microsoft (Supposedly some time next year.)

Don't forget Walmart
 
Does anyone of these companies do their homework?

First. Your music store isn't going to be profitable. Can you handle that?

Your music player best be profitable.

You are a PC maker that is primarily competitive based on price. Meaning your profit margins are thinner than Apples. So. You had better be able to sell these things like hotcakes. Lord knows i'm not an economist, but if Apple's profit margin on the iPod is 50% and HPs is only 25%, you have to sell twice as many as Apple. (OK, maybe not twice as many, cause we all know HP isn't going to put that much R&D on it, other than stealing cues from Apple which may or may not warrant legal action from Apple.) I have no idea what their distribution channel is like, so i can't comment on that, also, cause i have no idea how that affects cost.

Who exactly are you trying to sell this to? It better be the wanna-be iPod owners and the me-too's cause the early adopters and cutting edgers all ready bought. And i don't think they are going to go backwards.

So, who else is going to be competing in the arena with you? Dell. Oops. Dell is going to beat you on volume, cut profit margins so thin, you'd best think of ways to differentiate yourself.

There you have it HP, free consultation. Well, not exactly free. You can buy me an iPod for my troubles. :cool:

peezout!
 
Originally posted by mj_1903

We all know that every man and his dog will attempt to replicate Apple's success because its money.
Just to set the record straight on this one: it is cool, but it ain't money. The only people that make money on online music downloads are the recording companies. Apple (and anyone else doing this) will consistently loose money on it until they aquire a record label ... look for the Beatles to be salivating for Apple to do just that.
 
Originally posted by dguisinger
Don't forget Walmart

Thanks. I knew there was another retailer in there but Walmart didn't ring a bell.

Speaking of bells can we expect Taco Bell to open up a Latin music story soon? :rolleyes:

This really is starting to get ridiculous.
 
In that music business cake

They all together surely are going to catch the 100%...


... of the ~25 - 30 % iTunes will let them

;)

you do the math.
 
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