HP Music Player and Music Store

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by Lanbrown
What about hardware problems? They have no details on it as the designs are still in the works. Products need to be tested. Just ask Dell about its PDA and PPC 2003 fiasco.

If there is a hardware fault and they are already in the customer's hands, they have a huge problem. They are rushing it to market just to match Dell.

You are questioning hardware that we know nothing about. If they started it last week yah there could be problems. But last month? 2 months? 6 months? When did HP start working on these devices? And truth be told there isn't a whole heck of a lot that goes into these devices.
Hard drive, LCD, RAM, ROM, battery, USB/FW controller, a few other chips

It’s more about integrating the parts in a manner that makes the device as small as possible. As others have already mentioned HP makes some dang fine hardware. (The software is another matter. It typically sucks.) Unlike Dell who has some company in Taiwan design and manufacturer their products HP, with a few exceptions, designs their own products. I still own a first gen HP Jornada Pocket PC and I have to tell you it is the only Pocket PC that has an honest to god metal shell that is down right sexy. When HP designs something right it can go the distance with an Apple product.

 

[peejay]

HP's market leverage

HP will get a similar benefit to Apple in that they are going to bring out their own MP3 Player so they will be using the music downloads to encourage sales

This is not true in HP's case, since they're going to use WMP files, just like all the others, so any other player (with the exception of iPod) can connect with their service. That means if HP makes little or no money on the service (like Steve Jobs said of iTMS), they're only driving sales of the generic WMP-compatible player market, not necessarily their own.

Furthermore, although HP is a respected brand name, do you think the average person thinks "Hewlett-Packard" when they want music? No: they think HP when they want scientific calculators or oscilloscopes. "HP Music Store" is like "IBM Film Studios."

 

[iMeowbot]

Re: Does anyone of these companies do their homework?

Originally posted by PretendPCuser
You are a PC maker that is primarily competitive based on price. Meaning your profit margins are thinner than Apples.

HP are in far better shape than that. They showed a profit of USD1.4 billiion for the FY just ended. Remember that they run an insanely successful printer and peripherals business, and are the top seller in the rather profitable Unix server market. This is certainly no Dell; there's actual engineering going on there (and word has it that they're pretty good; it was an HP engineer who designed the Apple I and II).

 

[Fukui]

Damn...

This is getting ridiculous!

If all these competitiors still can't take down apple and iTunes in terms of Market share, MS will probably bundle WMP Store into Windows in order to save WMA....then expect a lawsuit....

Buy your copy of Office before its too late!

 

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Speaking of bells can we expect Taco Bell to open up a Latin music story soon?

Ok, see the difference there is that that would be cool!

I don't care how many outlets there are to buy Coldplay or whatever-- I'd love to see niche stores popping up offering things I can't find at Sam Goody (*shudder*)...

 

[jouster]

Originally posted by wsteineker
I wouldn't count HP out just yet. I work for a major retailer, and I can tell you that their machines are both terribly popular and fairly well built (compared to the rest of the PC lot). They have huge brand recognition and a fairly large installed user base. Couple that with an HP branded player and you've got a recipe for solid performance.

The installed base of HP machines doesn't matter. The interface will be the same for all Win PCs, at least if HP has any sense. If it restricts use to its own PCs, then it's just cutting off its nose to spite its face. And since the ports are all standard, the player will presumably work whether you own a HP, Dell, Acer etc.etc. Again, they only hurt themselves if they make everything proprietary.

Only one company is silly enough to make everything proprietary, thus continually crippling itself in markets that it invented.

Can you guess which one?

 

[Analog Kid]

Re: Re: Does anyone of these companies do their homework?

Originally posted by iMeowbot
HP are in far better shape than that. They showed a profit of USD1.4 billiion for the FY just ended. Remember that they run an insanely successful printer and peripherals business, and are the top seller in the rather profitable Unix server market. This is certainly no Dell; there's actual engineering going on there (and word has it that they're pretty good; it was an HP engineer who designed the Apple I and II).

Hm. Thought IBM was top in server sales, but maybe not...

If their laptops are anything to judge HP's portable products from, I'll steer clear of their player. Friend handled purchasing for a small company and switched from HP to IBM after dealing with a 60% return rate. Anecdotal-- your mileage may vary as I'm sure to hear...

In any event, don't confuse the "old" HP with the "New HP!". I'd argue that it was an Agilent engineer who designed the Apple I and II...

 

[asphalt-proof]

I smell conspiracy...

I think that this is an insidious plot by Microsoft to ensure the failure of Apple's iTunes. Follow my down the rabbit hole...
Microsoft wants to ensure that WMA is THE standard when it comes to digital music. Just like IE is the standard web browser, Microsoft Office is the standard office suite, and, of course, Windozes is the standard desktop. Microsfot wants to be as ubiquitous in as many areas as possible.
I wouldn't be surprised it Microsoft is "supporting" the other download sites. Then they don't have to answer to a federal judge about using their monopolist power to put a rival under. They have every other mucis service doing it for them. If every brand steals 5-10% of music download sales AND mp3 player sales then Apple would be forced to depart the arena. Ask yourself..."Self, why else is every company getting into this market if its a proven loss leader. Even the curent market leader is saying that its a loss"

Somoething tells me that there must be something to this music business that makes these companies salivate. Dell and HP, despite what we think about their hardware, software, are NOT stupid companies. These are companies that did quite well during the last .com boom. Something's up.

 

[MOM]

Re: Re: Geez

Originally posted by iMeowbot
Maybe this one will be programmable in RPL and have a voltmeter accessory.

Hey, I like my RPN calculator from HP. Then again I think their quality and design may have peaked with these calculators. The buttons on the calculator are the best I've ever tried. They let you feel when you've pushed the number. Details like that are what I love about Apple products.

However, my experiences with more recent HP products is that they are very average at best. No software in a box with the printer. Another laser printer that eats toner like mad, etc.

 

[winmacguy]

Re: Re: Europe

Originally posted by synergy
With the numerous licensing rights in each country not many yet have decided to do much of anything in Europe.

In fact Microsoft is trying some music download service in Europe but they are also getting sued for patent infringement:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/10/14/HNtiscali_1.html

bit unfortunate for Microsoft then eh....

 

[jouster]

Re: I smell conspiracy...

Originally posted by asphalt-proof
Ask yourself..."Self, why else is every company getting into this market if its a proven loss leader. Even the curent market leader is saying that its a loss."

Because if enough people change their music buying habits it will stop being a loss leader. No one wants to risk missing those profits.

 

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by jouster
The installed base of HP machines doesn't matter. The interface will be the same for all Win PCs, at least if HP has any sense. If it restricts use to its own PCs, then it's just cutting off its nose to spite its face. And since the ports are all standard, the player will presumably work whether you own a HP, Dell, Acer etc.etc. Again, they only hurt themselves if they make everything proprietary.

Only one company is silly enough to make everything proprietary, thus continually crippling itself in markets that it invented.

Can you guess which one?

Could it be the same company that "ignited the personal computer revolution" and is still alive today with a reputation for innovation and building solid products?

Could it be the same company that first made USB, Firewire, 802.11 and Bluetooth central parts of it's product line? Or where you referring to the Centronix port?

Get off the proprietary kick.

What the author meant is that HP has brand recognition, which is useful. It's a respected brand, which is also useful.

My added comment is that they're competing against MS by selling MS products (WMA, XP), which is foolish.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Re: I smell conspiracy...

Originally posted by asphalt-proof
I think that this is an insidious plot by Microsoft to ensure the failure of Apple's iTunes. Follow my down the rabbit hole...

Read my signature.

This is me too syndrome not any great conspiracy.

 

[TomSmithMacEd]

Originally posted by Analog Kid
[B

HP probably thinks it has an advantage because they can bundle the portal with their machines-- until MS boosts their license fees in retribution. Maybe they're going to build their player around Itanium to boost volumes of the chip?

We should start a pool on which will collapse first. All these companies fighting for, what, 100,000 users?

[/B]

Let's try this. I want a pool. I am going to try and start one.

 

[Analog Kid]

Re: I smell conspiracy...

Originally posted by asphalt-proof
Something tells me that there must be something to this music business that makes these companies salivate. Dell and HP, despite what we think about their hardware, software, are NOT stupid companies. These are companies that did quite well during the last .com boom. Something's up.

It's the same reason the whole world wanted a piece of the cell phone market a few years ago-- they all think they can be "the one".

Sure I make nothing per unit, but if you multiply that by billions of units you get... well...

Besides, there's nothing else exciting going on right now. No other bandwagons to jump on. These companies survived the bust, but that doesn't mean they didn't have some sort of eServices division or an online store.

Retailers are getting in because it could potentially threaten their CD sales.

 

[mrsebastian]

like someone else said... whatever. call me in a year or two and we'll see who's still standing and making money. is buymusic still up or are they starting write off their losses already?

 

[QuiteSure]

Apple needs to be careful ...

... because the iTunes/iPod combo only really works in its present form as long as BOTH are the best in class. As soon as another music download vendor finds a superior method of distribution to the consumer (it IS possible) Apple will be at a severe competitive disadvantage if the iPod does not support that vendor. Conversely, as soon as another music player manufacturer finds a way to provide consumers greater perceived value than the iPod, the iTMS will shrivel and die, unless it can support the new music player.

 

[edenwaith]

Re: Me too!

Originally posted by DTphonehome
Also, I will soon announce plans for my own digital music player. Stay tuned.

--DT

Dang, you too, huh?

Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. Apple gets the recipe right and then suddenly everybody and their mother wants to steal the pie.

 

[edenwaith]

Originally posted by mrsebastian
is buymusic still up or are they starting write off their losses already?

Grrr...I hope so. I once saw their commercial...how juvenile. Even worse is how they designed their web site to reject non Windows-IE browsers. I even tried to use Mozilla under Windows, and buymusic.com came up with a "Conform and be like everyone else" message. However, I was able to view the site from the Mac version of Lynx...hmmm...actually it probably looked better that way in text-only.

 

[coolbreeze]

Apple has created a monster.

 

[QuiteSure]

So, when is McD's going to announce its billion song giveaway?

 

[winmacguy]

Originally posted by QuiteSure
So, when is McD's going to announce its billion song giveaway?

after Pepsi who will do theirs at the Super Bowl

 

[emanu]

Re: Re: Does anyone of these companies do their homework?

Originally posted by iMeowbot
HP are in far better shape than that. They showed a profit of USD1.4 billiion for the FY just ended. Remember that they run an insanely successful printer and peripherals business, and are the top seller in the rather profitable Unix server market. This is certainly no Dell; there's actual engineering going on there (and word has it that they're pretty good; it was an HP engineer who designed the Apple I and II).

I think Jon Rubinstein Apple's Vice President Hardware Engineering worked at HP where he designed the HP 9000 which is the most deployed hp server worlwide.

 

[eazyway]

Software is the key to the iPod

Making it work right is up to the software and here Apple has a huge advantage at this timje. this project has been in the works for over 2 years maybe even as many as 4 years.

the iTunes, iSync and rendevous are all part of the package.

Will Apple make iTunes for other players remains to be seen. But for now the mac community has a solid service that will likely be able to sustain itself . Even 3-5 % of the final market will be 30-40 million iPods and the music store will likely hold a slightly higher market. I also expect the iPod to retain upwards of 10% of the market.

Compare the Dell box to the iPod

battery size.. dell
ease of use ...iPod
looks.. iPod
software ...iPod

sturdiness ...iPod (no moving parts)

weight iPod 36% less
size iPod
remote... iPod

price...dell

But then again you get what you paid for.

The toronto Star had an article by a columnist Rachell Ross ... who actually stated the scroll divice in the dell was easier than the iPod. Wow
Here is her comparison
"The Dell DJ 20 Digital Jukebox is the MP3 player for music aficionados who aren't fans of the big Apple. Like some of the new Apple iPods, the Dell DJ 20 holds 20 gigabytes of music: that's about 4,900 songs. But Dell's simple user interface makes the iPod seem silly, if not altogether cryptic. Instead of the iPod's oversized, rotating circle, the Dell DJ has a small, clickable scroll wheel (much like the one found on computer mice). The Dell DJ is sleek and stylish but doesn't sacrifice usability for the sake of aesthetics.

Various repeat and shuffle features are available on the Dell DJ, as well as equalization settings for different kinds of music. Sort your tunes by album, artist or genre. You can also use the device as an audio recorder; The built-in microphone records with surprisingly good sound quality. Pick up a Dell DJ online for $449 at http://www.dell.ca.

What if you don't trust your teenager with something that expensive? If you're looking for a gift for a geek-in-training, consider the more reasonably priced Lyra Personal Digital Players by RCA. Lightweight and cute, the RD1071 model can store about four hours of MP3s. For $199." you can eMail Ms Ross at rross@thestar.ca

 

[TyleRomeo]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Thanks. I knew there was another retailer in there but Walmart didn't ring a bell.

Speaking of bells can we expect Taco Bell to open up a Latin music story soon?

This really is starting to get ridiculous.

imimtation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Tyler