HP Reverses Course, Will Keep PC Unit

[LagunaSol]

Not to be a jerk but being a teacher means you need to open minded to things. I think being a debt collector might suit you better until you learn that both sides of the table have valid arguments and at times your side could be the wrong side.

There are plenty of readers here who exclusively take the contrarian (antagonistic) position - Apple is always wrong. So what's wrong with *LTD* exclusively occupying the opposite side of the table? Maybe readers like *LTD* (and me) seem to be 100% in Apple's corner only because we're always responding to the readers who believe Apple can do no right? The lack of objectivity causes commentary to gravitate to extreme sides of the spectrum.

Frankly I'd love for some of the trolls here to fade away so the discussion could be more open. Instead it's constant flame throwing and flame extinguishing. The mods, unfortunately, are content to allow the chronic trolls to frolic unfettered.

Funny how there are readers here who never have a single positive thing to say about Apple in their hundreds of posts, yet accuse anyone who takes the opposite side of being closed-minded. Not talking about you, per se, but there are plenty, and we all know who they are.

Also interesting to note is *LTD* can't say so much as "I like vanilla ice cream" without immediately getting 5 negative votes. Seems he has a little following of anti-groupies. Though I'm sure they're "open minded," right?

 

[blackhand1001]

Bringing back the TouchPad at $99 might increase sales but they will lose their shirts profit-wise. Remember, nobody bought the TouchPad at the price they could make a profit on. People only bought it because they basically gave it away. Why is it so hard to understand that the TouchPad was a failure, pure and simple?

I am not sure why hp immediately dropped them to 99, they sell on ebay for 250-300 everyday. They could have easily sold them for 250.

 

[something3153]

I am speaking generally. It was more of a "to anyone looking for a laptop" statement.

Yup. Good laptops start at $1000 or so. They come with OSX or W7 and then you can install Linux if you choose (as I normally do). In my experience, anything significantly under that is a temporary solution.

 

[Renzatic]

I've always thought voting systems are more a detriment than a boon on forums like these. While the intentions are good, all they ultimately achieve is a sense of paranoia and foster unneeded favoritism.

Such as LTD's They. With a capital T. He knows who they are. :shifty eyes:


...make sure you vote me up, cuz you know I'm right.

There are plenty of readers here who exclusively take the contrarian (antagonistic) position - Apple is always wrong.

As far as I know, I don't think there's been a single instance of anti-appleism amongst the longer posts in this thread. Yeah, you might have a couple of driveby "OLOL iOS SUKS YALL R STOOPID", but who listens to those?

It's less "Apple is always wrong", and more "Apple isn't always right".

 

[something3153]

It's less "Apple is always wrong", and more "Apple isn't always right".

Indeed. I'm called a troll for not accepting as gospel that all innovation comes from Apple and everyone else just copies them. I liked my 3Gs until it died, and would have bought a MBP13 if it had a higher-resolution screen. They make some very nice products, but they're not the be-all and end-all of quality.

 

[boss.king]

There are plenty of readers here who exclusively take the contrarian (antagonistic) position - Apple is always wrong. So what's wrong with *LTD* exclusively occupying the opposite side of the table? Maybe readers like *LTD* (and me) seem to be 100% in Apple's corner only because we're always responding to the readers who believe Apple can do no right? The lack of objectivity causes commentary to gravitate to extreme sides of the spectrum.

Frankly I'd love for some of the trolls here to fade away so the discussion could be more open. Instead it's constant flame throwing and flame extinguishing. The mods, unfortunately, are content to allow the chronic trolls to frolic unfettered.

Funny how there are readers here who never have a single positive thing to say about Apple in their hundreds of posts, yet accuse anyone who takes the opposite side of being closed-minded. Not talking about you, per se, but there are plenty, and we all know who they are.

Also interesting to note is *LTD* can't say so much as "I like vanilla ice cream" without immediately getting 5 negative votes. Seems he has a little following of anti-groupies. Though I'm sure they're "open minded," right?

The thing is, LTD never takes a stance like that, his is more of a "I like vanilla ice cream. Other flavours aspire to be as good but can't, and the people who settle for less than the glory of vanilla are being mislead with an inferior imitation product." I don't know about the others but I don't much care for being talked down to.

I assume I'm one of the people you refer to when you talk about contrarians, but I'm not. I praise Apple when they impress me and criticise the things which don't, it just so happens that they haven't impressed me as much lately. I do the same for Google, MSFT, HP, Nokia, Samsung, HTC, and any other company that interests me.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

The thing is, LTD never takes a stance like that, his is more of a "I like vanilla ice cream. Other flavours aspire to be as good but can't, and the people who settle for less than the glory of vanilla are being mislead with an inferior imitation product."

Pretty much nailed this one.

 

[Renzatic]

Indeed. I'm called a troll for not accepting as gospel that all innovation comes from Apple and everyone else just copies them. I liked my 3Gs until it died, and would have bought a MBP13 if it had a higher-resolution screen. They make some very nice products, but they're not the be-all and end-all of quality.

That's my stance exactly. Apple makes great stuff, and they do push the envelope on quite a few fronts, but they're hardly the only company that does.

 

[*LTD*]

I am not sure why hp immediately dropped them to 99, they sell on ebay for 250-300 everyday. They could have easily sold them for 250.

Even so, you can't just keep a dead/dying/stalled product afloat for the sheer sake of moving units. You need to show profit and sustainability. HP could not do this so they dumped whatever they had left for revenue that was somewhere between "free" and "something."

By their own admission, HP shipped a lousy, incomplete, slow product. Therein is to be found any and every explanation you'll ever need as to why HP canned the project in its current form, with absolutely no guarantee of it being resurrected. TouchPad + WebOS already made its impression on the market, and the results don't seem to merit a second try with the same OS under the same "TouchPad" branding, unless of course they want to sell these electric coasters at a loss again. And really, that sort of embarrassment is the last thing they need, especially now. Brand image and mindshare is everything, and theirs absolutely sucks right now.

 

[Mr. Gates]

Even so, you can't just keep a dead/dying/stalled product afloat for the sheer sake of moving units. You need to show profit and sustainability. HP could not do this so they dumped whatever they had left for revenue that was somewhere between "free" and "something."

By their own admission, HP shipped a lousy, incomplete, slow product. Therein is to be found any and every explanation you'll ever need as to why HP canned the project in its current form, with absolutely no guarantee of it being resurrected. TouchPad + WebOS already made its impression on the market, and the results don't seem to merit a second try with the same OS under the same "TouchPad" branding, unless of course they want to sell these electric coasters at a loss again. And really, that sort of embarrassment is the last thing they need, especially now. Brand image and mindshare is everything, and theirs absolutely sucks right now.

Well....I Never

No more HP love for YOU.............hater



EDIT :_____________You can SEE *LTD*'s Avatar on the left of the screen of this GIF............LOL

 

[blackhand1001]

Even so, you can't just keep a dead/dying/stalled product afloat for the sheer sake of moving units. You need to show profit and sustainability. HP could not do this so they dumped whatever they had left for revenue that was somewhere between "free" and "something."

By their own admission, HP shipped a lousy, incomplete, slow product. Therein is to be found any and every explanation you'll ever need as to why HP canned the project in its current form, with absolutely no guarantee of it being resurrected. TouchPad + WebOS already made its impression on the market, and the results don't seem to merit a second try with the same OS under the same "TouchPad" branding, unless of course they want to sell these electric coasters at a loss again. And really, that sort of embarrassment is the last thing they need, especially now. Brand image and mindshare is everything, and theirs absolutely sucks right now.

Your missing the fact that this move was discussed by no one. The CEO who was quickly kicked out made this move without notifying the WebOS people or anyone else. They didn't even give the product 3 weeks. And WebOS was far from slow. The OS is largely prasied for being fast smooth, great interface and multitasking. Had there been better leadership at HP at the time the Touchpad could have been a success. They chose a poor person to feature in the Commercials, no one in America cares about Russel Brand. Both HP and Russel Brand (not just hp related) assume that being famous in Europe automatically makes people care about you in America.

 

[divinox]

I suppose we should expect the rebirth of the TouchPad next?

We just might. But if so, it'll run Win8.

----------

Perhaps HP can't find a buyer for its non-profitable business unit?

PSG was profitable. Very much so, one might add. Also, when spinning something off, you don't need a buyer. I don't even think Apotheker wanted to sell. In fact, the decision as such was probably a good one - just delivered **** ass poorly.

----------

They still make some of the best Servers on the market and are one of the biggest enterprise players. I think you forget that the technology market is more than just i devices and home computers.

Apple has no market in servers and enterprise. Thus, by default, these industries and segments are irrelevant.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

Apple has no market in servers and enterprise. Thus, by default, these industries and segments are irrelevant.

You're missing my point. My point is you can't discount an entire company based on one line of products.

 

[rhinosrcool]

I am not sure why hp immediately dropped them to 99, they sell on ebay for 250-300 everyday. They could have easily sold them for 250.

As a loss leader, since it costs over $300 to manufacture it, it wouldn't be practical. Unlike Amazon, they don't have content to sell through it.

Apple, with a lot of credit to Tim Cook, keeps manufacturing costs lower, locks up supplies with big contracts, and extremely efficiently, keeps inventories a bit less than demand and sells refurbished items at a solid rate so that they don't carry excess.

 

[rmwebs]

Sidenote: Ahh I love getting up in the morning, sitting at my desk with a nice cup of hot coffee...and reading LTD's nonsense. Its great entertainment. LTD - please keep it up, I love that MR has an entertainer

-----------------

When HP took over webOS, one of their goals was to get it compatible with Windows. In thst ,they wanted it to run on top of Windows based desktops.

Now, after they ditched the touchpad, they were quick to point out that they would keep developing webOS. One possibility is that if they are now continuing the home PC biz, they will likely bundle webOS on top of Windows and allow webOS apps to run on your PC.

This would keep webOS in the limelight, and give them time to sort out hardware for its continued use. They would be pretty silly to dump such a well designed, modern platform so early in the game. Then again, HP dont have the best track record for taking the sensible approach so this is all probably a pipe dream

 

[GulGnu]

$13,200,000.

I´ll screw up any company for that kind of cash.

 

[bpaluzzi]

You've clearly ignored the change of CEO that reflects the change in the companies direction. Please pay attention to the facts reported, not the things you read between the lines.

It would be interesting to see if they reintroduce the Touchpad at a low price. I think they could get some good sales out of it.

So they'd sell a lot of devices that they're losing money on. Sounds like a great plan! ;-)

I have to ask, do you work in advertising or PR? Because you're actually pretty good and presenting fiction as fact. There is still plenty of room for "generic box makers" to make a profit. What is Apples marketshare in the laptop and desktop markets? And who dominate those markets? Can you guess? That's right, the "generic box makers".

Depends on how you define "dominate":
Marketshare != dominate.
Marketshare = marketshare
Profits = profits

It sold extraordinarily well at $150.

If they were to maintain that price and make it... well, better, in pretty much every way, I imagine they could make a good low end competitor to the iPad and Kindle Fire.

They're losing money on it already. Amazon sells it as a gateway to content, which is where they make their money. It's the "free razor, but we'll sell you the blades" approach. HP doesn't have any blades to sell. (No server jokes, please) ;-)

We'll see where Apple is in 10 years time - they have already almost but complete killed off the iPod (everyone is putting the music on their mobile phone, why carry two pieces of equipment when one can do) and cameras and a lot of simple games machines are all but dead too (also on the mobile phone). Depending on bleeding edge technology is a fast track to oblivion.

They've killed the iPod / camera / games devices with a device that they make. Not really a losing strategy there, especially since they didn't previously make cameras / game devices.

No, I don't. I've considered it in the past but I really have no use for older Apple gear. I've kept my old StyleWriter 1200 for sentimental reasons, as well as my old PowerMac 6100/60, because I loved that machine - it was with me for around 8 years and I had some great times with it. ClarisWorks, Bryce, too many great things to list.

This gets downrated? Seriously? And there's any debate about whether or not there's a rabid anti-Apple (anti-*LTD*, perhaps) group that gets their jollies about down-voting anything posted? Pathetic.

Also interesting to note is *LTD* can't say so much as "I like vanilla ice cream" without immediately getting 5 negative votes. Seems he has a little following of anti-groupies. Though I'm sure they're "open minded," right?

Exactly.

 

[boss.king]

Depends on how you define "dominate":
Marketshare != dominate.
Marketshare = marketshare
Profits = profits

Indeed. Personally I'd take marketshare as a sign of dominance, but that's just me, I'm not saying it's the best or only measurement. What I find really annoying is when people flip-flop between measurements depending on how it suits their argument.

 

[davegoody]

I am an Apple fan.... BUT .....

I suppose we should expect the rebirth of the TouchPad next?

HP need to keep making PCs, their corporate gear is excellent, assuming you want to run Windows

 

[samcraig]

I re-read the below and I have to say that I actually agree with the factual stuff in LTD's post. That pretty much a box is a box is a box. I don't bring my negative feelings into it because I've never really had a problem with Windows and am fine using both. And most people are. Apple's never really positioned themselves as a WORK computer. They show off the creative aspects of their OS and software like iPhoto, iMovie, etc. Sure they have Pages, Numbers and Keynote - but they really don't market them well.

I just happen to be all Mac at home originally because of Final Cut Pro, wanting to eliminate some clutter (all in one computer/screen), etc.

That being said - the very reasons you list below LTD are exactly why Apple will never dominate the computer marketplace. I'm sure you'll try and state that in the post-pc era it won't matter - but fact is - it does now and it will for MANY years. Corporations will always need big boxes at least for the back end systems and as you say - the price is right for PCs.

So like Gates said - it doesn't matter - while consumers may have more of a choice - corporations seemingly have less. They'd have more options if Apple actually kept their servers or developed new ones. They don't seem to want that market.

But here's the thing. It's a huge and viable market. So you can praise Apple all you want because you are a consumer - but the reality is - makers of PCs and Microsoft ALSO have a viable market and roadmap.

Just because it's meaningless doesn't mean you can put your head in the sand and ignore it. Again - that's why PCs will pretty much dominate the entire market while Apple will most likely remain (in my own opinion) well under 30% total for quite awhile.

Again, two models. for a BUSINESS who wants to make money - both seem to be working. Even Jobs has stated as such. You might think one is better - but that just means it's better for you. You are entitled to your opinion. But that doesn't make it universal.

I don't really care about the "business world." The "business world" will shell out for anyone that can give them the best volume deal. HP, Dell, etc. It's all the same crap that employees have to put up with. When these boxes are working like they should, of course. And quite frankly, the MS enterprise ecosystem leaves a helluva lot to be desired. That space is crying out for some innovation and User Experience initiatives.

I'm only interested in the consumer side of things. Since what I and others use at the office isn't my choice; it is one that is made for us by the dictates of management and the IT drones that cater to their budgetary decisions. LOL what typical employee in corporate North America actually enjoys their work PC? Few, if any.

Yes, HP still has their successful enterprise division. So what. It's totally meaningless for you and I as consumers. You can replace every single HP unit in the enterprise with a comparable Dell and chances are, and with few exceptions, business will continue unfettered. Box-maker is box-maker is box-maker. They are OEM shells for universally-licensed operating systems. Barely any differentiation between them. But then again, differentiation and User Experience are not priorities in the enterprise. Perfect for volume-pushers.

 

[Tiger8]

Uhh, he was.

Opps, sorry, missed this part . But I am sure he got a huge-azz settlement in the millions of dollars for his 'services'

 

[AppleScruff1]

No, I don't. I've considered it in the past but I really have no use for older Apple gear. I've kept my old StyleWriter 1200 for sentimental reasons, as well as my old PowerMac 6100/60, because I loved that machine - it was with me for around 8 years and I had some great times with it. ClarisWorks, Bryce, too many great things to list.

I was just curious. I know a few people who have some old pc's and early Macs. It's kind of neat to see how far things have progressed. I used to collect old cell phones, I still have a few of the early Motorola flip phones that were the size of a brick.

 

[Sackvillenb]

Well, go figure!

 

[SeattleMoose]

Sad....

A once great company fading away with a series of inept "related industry" female CEOs at the helm.

Tech companies require tech CEOs. And men make better leaders than women....just simple biology. The truth exists whether PC people want it to...or not.

 

[leehinderstein]

HP Get A Clue!

Sadly, until lately, all HP did good was make hardware! There software has been substandard for years.

Who are the people making these decisions?