HTC Cites Patents Obtained From Google in New Lawsuit Against Apple

[Mattie Num Nums]

Which parts ? The Application launcher ? The customizable desktops with widgets ? The notification center ? The settings UI ? The phone dialer ? The task manager ?

Please. Some meat.

Funny thing is, iOS has copied some of that from Android. Everyone looks at each other for inspiration. Its called competition. Look at Lexus when they released the IS300 with Clear Tail lights. Before you know it everyone had clear tail lights. Look at Wolfgang Puck when he made his "California" style Pizza's. Now gourmet pizza's are all over the place. This is business and the only people who seem to not want to play the business is Apple. They would rather crush and sweep all the competition up. Isn't that everyone here deplores Microsoft for doing decades ago.

 

[KnightWRX]

You can think however you wish, but you clearly edited out all the strong points I made. Being hardware agnostic does not mean that Google isn't developing for a certain platform, it simply means it does not require exact specific hardware. Hence why Android phones come with a variety of CPU's & GPU's.

Nope, it means like you said, Google is developing for a multitude of platforms. Sure, that includes specific platforms, but that's what a whole is.

Are you looking at just the parts ? That would be like saying Apple copied Wacom because they made OS X able to interact with tablets for input. Hum.. no, that's not how it works. OS X provides a driver model where different input devices can plug in and work. Same with Android. It provides ways to connect to different input devices, one of which is multi-touch screens.

What do you say about the fact that Google used the Xoom and uses the Nexus devices as reference platforms for building Android and as developer devices?

What is there to say ? Why not use the most trendy form factor for those ? OEMs want to make full touch screen phones, this is where the market is at these days (thanks to the rise of the capacitative touch screen and pioneers like the Treo, the P800 and, yes, the iPhone).

Anyway, what does the Xoom have to do with this, you're not suggesting that Apple invented the tablet form factor I hope...

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Notications were a work around until Apple could build good model for muti-tasking. And they took off.

Uh ? What do notifications have to do with multi-tasking of user space applications ?

 

[apolloa]

Yap

Cool, I agree then, everyone has ripped Apple off..

Notifications who did them first? I don't remember ever having apps on my phone communicate with me without them running, before Apple did.

Erm?? I don't understand this comment? Because just about every phone since SMS and voicemail etc has been able to handle notifications just fine with no app running? It beeps when you get a message and you have a notification on your screen? What's Apple done differently then?

 

[mabaker]

Funny how the Google fanboiis try to justify its duplicitous tactics. Pure gold!

 

[Celf]

This patent horse has been beaten to death. Perhaps it's a good idea to stop writing about it and concentrate on the fun part of smartphones (Samsung, Apple, HTC, Nokia and others, in random order)...working and playing with them and enjoy innovations. This fight is going to cost a lot of money, one way or the other. It also costs customer acceptance because of the negative news..almost on a daily basis. It also kills innovation. Yes, it kills innovation because both sides claim they are right "and why innovate when i'm right". Innovation resumes after a court order.

Over a year, perhaps two years, we'll see if it's still a competitive market or that competition is history and the only choice we have is the color of the device.

Today was the last day with news about lawsuits and patents on this site !!! ( )

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

Funny how the Google fanboiis try to justify its duplicitous tactics. Pure gold!

Its funny how the Apple fanboys label anyone who doesn't serve Apple 100% as a _____ fanboy. Its also funny how Apple Fanyboys refuse to acknowledge the multiple pieces of evidence that show products that looked like the iPad and iPhone existed before either were made public.

 

[Kenrik]

Apple is defending Patents it actually invented... Google/HTC are defending patents they infringed upon by buying patents they did not invent.

Google/HTC are not the ones on the moral high ground here guys...

It's like robbing someones house and then buying it later and saying that it was ok to rob it because it's your house. ???

 

[KnightWRX]

Apple is defending Patents it actually invented...

Apple purchases as many patents as anyone else.

 

[Oletros]

Apple is defending Patents it actually invented... Google/HTC are defending patents they infringed upon by buying patents they did not invent.

Fingerworks patents were invented by Apple?

 

[erzhik]

What? Someone got the balls to counter sue Apple and all of a sudden Apple fanboys are butthurt? Get real, a lawsuit is a lawsuit. Apple sued more people this year than anyone and it's not like they won many of them. All but 1 patent were thrown out from lawsuit against Samsung.

 

[lilo777]

Apple is defending Patents it actually invented... Google/HTC are defending patents they infringed upon by buying patents they did not invent.

Google/HTC are not the ones on the moral high ground here guys...

It's like robbing someones house and then buying it later and saying that it was ok to rob it because it's your house. ???

Apple is a midget in a patent World with tons of companies having way more patents than Apple (which is not surprising given the fact that Apple is very skimpy on R&D budget). As a result, they actually have very few things to defend. I am not sure them suing everybody around was such a good idea.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

Apple is a midget in a patent World with tons of companies having way more patents than Apple (which is not surprising given the fact that Apple is very skimpy on R&D budget). As a result, they actually have very few things to defend. I am not sure them suing everybody around was such a good idea.

Apple Invented God... duh.

 

[KnightWRX]

All but 1 patent were thrown out from lawsuit against Samsung in the Netherlands.

Fixed that there for you. Apple is involved in more than 1 lawsuit against Samsung all over the world.

We should get the Germany ruling about the preliminary hearing tomorrow.

 

[840quadra]

Android did them first.

And if you diddn't remember having apps withouth them running bedore Apple did anly shows that you don't know it was done before, not that none did it before.

So, you haven't said nothing about what Android copied from iOS, you only has shown that you must inform better.

Actually I would argue that 3rd party devs using Un-official means (Cydia) predate even Android. This isn't a win for iOS, but also not a clear win for Android in this regard.

Android OEMs do get the gold star for having them implemented natively, and out of the box first.

 

[lilo777]

Fixed that there for you. Apple is involved in more than 1 lawsuit against Samsung all over the world.

We should get the Germany ruling about the preliminary hearing tomorrow.

As I understand, German lawsuit does not include any tech patents (or whatever they are called) thought. It's just about the dress code (look and feel), right? So there is nothing to throw out there.

 

[KnightWRX]

Actually I would argue that 3rd party devs using Un-official means (Cydia) predate even Android. This isn't a win for iOS, but also not a clear win for Android in this regard.

Android shipped with the notifications on day 1, in November 2008. Considering Cydia had only been available since March 2008, do you have any reference to back this up ?

 

[BaldiMac]

Fingerworks patents were invented by Apple?

Which Fingerworks patents are you referring to? Apple bought Fingerworks. You are really just arguing semantics.

Get real, a lawsuit is a lawsuit.

Not really. Some have merit. Some are frivoulous. Some are offensive. Some are defensive.

Apple sued more people this year than anyone

Source? It has actually been documented that they are sued more than anyone in the industry.

and it's not like they won many of them.

They haven't lost many (any?) either.

All but 1 patent were thrown out from lawsuit against Samsung.

Actually one patent was thrown out against Samsung in one country. Was there more? The rest were simply not sufficient for a preliminary injunction.

Apple is a midget in a patent World with tons of companies having way more patents than Apple (which is not surprising given the fact that Apple is very skimpy on R&D budget). As a result, they actually have very few things to defend. I am not sure them suing everybody around was such a good idea.

Source? And with patents, it's quality not quantity that matters. (And I'd guess Apple was top 30 or so in mobile related patents.)

 

[divinox]

True that, they were before but they didn't patent anything and only sold 25000 units. I was actually just responding to the person saying Apple copied it from Windows and wanted to tell that it was the other way round. Much of the innovation though came from Apple and if you look at the first GUI from Apple, you see the remarkable resemblance even in Windows 7 because their principles were the same there are today. If Apple would have produced this for the IBM compatible computers as well, Microsoft would have never had a chance.

No, what you really need to look at is Apple GUI before and after visiting parc. That is were the resemblance stems from after all - regardless of patents and all that sh't. The principle of wimp is a Xerox invention. Wimp is basically the mother of all desktop gui:s to this date.

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Have any sources on this or did you just make it up?

KnightWRX, I don't understand why you keep trotting out current Android phones that resemble a Blackberry. That is irrelevant to what people are talking about. Google was developing Android to run on hardware closer to the Blackberry than the iPhone but switched gears to devices similar to the iPhone. Just look at the phones that Google considers developer phones: Nexus One and the Nexus S. Those look nothing like a Blackberry and to suggest Google isn't specifically developing with that device type is silly. Of course Android can run on tons of hardware but to pretend that they aren't doing so with the iPhone style platform at the forefront is craziness.

"They" as in Google, are not. They as in OEM:s, perhaps. The last ones tend to follow market trends, give customers what they want you know? Do you even have a point in there somewhere? As for Google, they couldnt care less what phones that were pushed, all they care for is that they are being used.

 

[BaldiMac]

No, what you really need to look at is Apple GUI before and after visiting parc. That is were the resemblance stems from after all - regardless of patents and all that sh't. The principle of wimp is a Xerox invention. Wimp is basically the mother of all desktop gui:s to this date.

And Apple added concepts to what they saw at Xerox PARC that are also fundamental to a modern OS as well. Drag and Drop for one. Everything is based on what came before.

"They" as in Google, are not. They as in OEM:s, perhaps. The last ones tend to follow market trends, give customers what they want you know? Do you even have a point in there somewhere? As for Google, they couldnt care less what phones that were pushed, all they care for is that they are being used.

Are you saying that it's just a coincidence that Google delayed launching Android over a year and a half after seeing the iPhone to debut on iPhone like hardware?

 

[divinox]

Most of the UI is a bad copy. And everything you listed where is the invitation? Multi-tasking comes right from a desktop OS and can be hugh battery drain. I see it all the time when family members phones died way too soon in the day. Apple looked at a phone a realized you don't need every app running like it's the active app. They broke apps down in to services and you quickly see only parts of some apps need to run all the time others can be paused. Notifications who did them first? I don't remember ever having apps on my phone communicate with me without them running, before Apple did. Who did them way the Goggle does them now first, Andriod or WebOS? Widgets another thing that came from a desktop OS nothing new. Virtual Desktop, sounds like spaces in OS X?

Which parts of iOS GUI can not be considered as equally "right from the desktop OS"? Can you make a list, pretty please?

 

[840quadra]

Android shipped with the notifications on day 1, in November 2008. Considering Cydia had only been available since March 2008, do you have any reference to back this up ?

Intilliscreen May 2008 (this also isn't the initial release)
http://www.appleiphoneschool.com/2008/05/28/intelliscreen-093/

Same application, later release in June 2008
http://www.appleiphoneschool.com/2008/06/05/intelliscreen-101/

At first release it was ugly, and at the time couldn't disable the native notifications, but it gave you a lot of information on the lock screen. Later versions could cost quite a bit of $$ in, but improved the looks by placing it on a much better looking screen.

There are other examples, though searching for old jailbroken iOS software is not one of my true skills in life. I used Grip back in the day (I think 2009), but I am not sure exactly when it came out.

 

[KnightWRX]

Intilliscreen May 2008 (this also isn't the initial release)
http://www.appleiphoneschool.com/2008/05/28/intelliscreen-093/

Image

Same application, later release in June 2008
http://www.appleiphoneschool.com/2008/06/05/intelliscreen-101/

Image

At first release it was ugly, and at the time couldn't disable the native notifications, but it gave you a lot of information on the lock screen. Later versions could cost quite a bit of $$ in, but improved the looks by placing it on a much better looking screen.

There are other examples, though searching for old jailbroken iOS software is not one of my true skills in life. I used Grip back in the day (I think 2009), but I am not sure exactly when it came out.

Both those examples look nothing like Android's notification center which is pretty close to what ended up in iOS 5. I'm not saying it's not possible, though few who have made the claim that Cydia devs came up with what is in Android have been able to provide actual evidence of it.

 

[divinox]

And Apple added concepts to what they saw at Xerox PARC that are also fundamental to a modern OS as well. Drag and Drop for one. Everything is based on what came before.



Are you saying that it's just a coincidence that Google delayed launching Android over a year and a half after seeing the iPhone to debut on iPhone like hardware?

Of course, so whats up with the Apple-hangup? And why does the word always change from "based on" to "copied" when Apple is involved?

...regarding drag & drop, i'd like to say that its fairly obvious under the desktop paradigm. I mean, its meant to replicate a desk. if i have a folder on my desk, i am - after all - able to move it. Theres not that many ways of moving an object with a mouse after all (and, you can mimic the same action in real life just using your finger; i.e. push down, swipe).

That said, i do not know if anyone at parc thought about it or not. Maybe they did, maybe they did not. Doesnt really matter though, at least not to me. Then again, i dont consider Android to be an iOS copy.


As for coincidence, i do not have sufficient information to say. Regardless, it doesnt really change the fact that Android is a multi-form-factor OS; Android runs on anything from microwaves to cars. Says it all.

 

[DeathChill]

I just want to point out that I am not saying Android is an iOS rip-off. I have a hard time believing that anyone could possibly feel that Android wasn't changed by what iOS brought to the phone market.

I was mentioning the Xoom because it was Google's reference design while they built Honeycomb and was referred as a developers device, just like the Nexus series. To pretend that Google hasn't chosen a main device platform style (large touchscreen phone rather than small screen with hardware keyboard and navigational buttons) is a bit ridiculous. I'll bet KnightWRX and divinox $1000 that the next Nexus will follow the setup of a large touchscreen being the focus of phone.

I do agree with divinox though: Google is only providing and catering to what is popular (because of the iPhone).
.

 

[voonyx]

I just want to point out that I am not saying Android is an iOS rip-off. I have a hard time believing that anyone could possibly feel that Android wasn't changed by what iOS brought to the phone market.

I was mentioning the Xoom because it was Google's reference design while they built Honeycomb and was referred as a developers device, just like the Nexus series. To pretend that Google hasn't chosen a main device platform style (large touchscreen phone rather than small screen with hardware keyboard and navigational buttons) is a bit ridiculous. I'll bet KnightWRX and divinox $1000 that the next Nexus will follow the setup of a large touchscreen being the focus of phone.

I do agree with divinox though: Google is only providing and catering to what is popular (because of the iPhone).
.

Nor can I. Seems ridiculously silly doesn't it haha